Oh No! It's Another Thread About Circumcision.

[Lukeee]

Re: A contradiction? Being anti circumcision and pro body modification

I would think it is just as weird if a parent got their newborn baby covered in tattoos and piercings.

I don't care if someone wants to do it to themselves because they like it or if it is done for medical reasons.

 

[Seasoned]

Re: A contradiction? Being anti circumcision and pro body modification

I appreciate your responses. It seems the tats, etc might be a form of protest. I'm also assuming that in some cultures tattooing and piercings are done at the behest of the parents. I guess I'm anti-modification. I see a disk sized hole in an earlobe as mutilation. BTW, my son is not circumcised. I think the body is good enough to be left alone. But, as it should be in all things when no one is getting hurt, to each his own.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

Re: A contradiction? Being anti circumcision and pro body modification

It seems the tats, etc might be a form of protest.

For some people it is. For me, it's self-expression and taking ownership of my body.

I also just think tattoos are hot. They're a way to totally personalize my body and make it like no other.

 

[jonduer]

Oh No. It's Another Thread ABout Circumcision

The President of South Africa is facing the disaster of the most cases of AIDS/HIV anywhere in Africa. They are loading up with the antiviral medications needed. They are setting up clinics for male circumcisions all over the country. The goal in the next year is for 1 million circumcisions. Even the large Zulu tribe, who gave up the circumcision rite more than a 100 years ago because of infections in the old procedure, are going to be circumcised in clinics with good hygiene for the minor surgery. Those of you who are contemplating being circumcised should consider what is going on in Africa. The United Nations is advocating a preventative approach to the AIDS epidemic with male circumcision as a first line of protection.
A huge number of males are getting circumcisied. Many, many males do not use any protection from AIDS when engaging in intercourse from female to male as well as from in male to male sex. For example, anal intercourse should not be attempted. The small capillaries in the rectal area break open with intercourse and can transmit AIDS through the blood.

 

[Nomenclature]

Re: South Africa and Circumcision

The biggest reason people are infected with HIV in Africa is because rape is so common there.

You'd be surprised how quickly you'd be infected with the virus when you're being violently gang-banged by 15 people who all have it.

 

[Nomenclature]

Re: South Africa and Circumcision

Is that true? Can I see some statistics? Or is this just the normal American "all n*ggers are animals" state of mind?

How very classy of you to be so quick to bring up your own imagined racism. Racism is primitive tribal non-sense and has no place in this discussion. You should know better than that.

South Africa's Rape Crisis: 1 in 4 Men Say They've Done It

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1906000,00.html

Rape is endemic in South Africa.

On this the police, politicians, sociologists and rape survivors all agree.


[...]



Sexual violence pervades society, with one of the highest reported rates of rape in the world, and an alarmingly high incidence of domestic violence and child abuse.


[...]

During a recent parliamentary debate on child abuse in South Africa, it was reported that there has been a 400% increase in the sexual violence against children over the past decade.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1909220.stm





Chopping your foreskin off isn't going to stop HIV, but civilized, intelligent behavior will. That's the only point i'm trying to make.

 

[blackbeltninja]

Re: South Africa and Circumcision

Chopping your foreskin off isn't going to stop HIV, but civilized, intelligent behavior will. That's the only point i'm trying to make.

Look - a flying pig!

Alas, there is not enough of the bold bits in too many parts of Africa. Some of the thinking here is frighteningly backward.

-d-

 

[Corny]

Re: South Africa and Circumcision

before I respond to the troll OP .. blackbeltninja, is there any truth to the OP? Is this supported by public funds?

 

[Nomenclature]

Re: South Africa and Circumcision

Look - a flying pig!

Alas, there is not enough of the bold bits in too many parts of Africa. Some of the thinking here is frighteningly backward.

It's nothing necessarily specific about your country or culture, though; If the entire world was made up of good, sane people, then HIV would be gone in a single generation.

But there are stupid, irrational and violent people all over the world. That's why HIV will continue to be a global epidemic for probably the next century, at least.

 

[blackbeltninja]

Re: South Africa and Circumcision

before I respond to the troll OP .. blackbeltninja, is there any truth to the OP? Is this supported by public funds?

Um... sadly, yes. You can just about anything done at a state hospital for very little money, hugely subsidised by taxes. You might wait for months to get it done, but if you have no money it will be done for next to nothing. And after that circumcision reduces the risk of AIDS study which got jubber NoelIE all worked up a couple of years ago, the national Health Dept jumped all over that and started the programme.

It may have been a practice abandoned by the Zulus, but amongst the Xhosa a circumcision is celebrated like a bar mitzvah is and very widely practiced. The boys all get sent off back to their ancestral homes out in the rural areas and spend a month learning traditional ways and becoming men, ending with the big day when they are circumcised. It is a matter of pride amongst Xhosa women to have a son become a man; alas the values and traditions are often forgotten once they return to poverty and hardship in the urban centers where the other stuff in the Time article happens. This is a simplistic view, of course, but the numbers are accurate and the perceptions of gender roles as mentioned die hard.

-d-

 

[blackbeltninja]

Re: South Africa and Circumcision

It's nothing necessarily specific about your country or culture, though; If the entire world was made up of good, sane people, then HIV would be gone in a single generation.

But there are stupid, irrational and violent people all over the world. That's why HIV will continue to be a global epidemic for probably the next century, at least.

Agreed. Ours seems more backward in comparison, though - tribal elders/wisemen/witchdoctors (all of whom hold MASSIVE power over the man in the street) frequently say stupid things like "condoms rob you of your soul" and "you will only get AIDS if you upset the spirits of your ancestors" and "AIDS can be cured by having sex with a virgin woman."

These words are immediately deified and become gospel and since the rape culture is so prevalent in the townships it is very difficult to find a virgin woman and thus the HIV+ men turn to having sex with any virgins they can find - babies and toddlers, usually.

It doesn't help when the President of the country says things like "you can't not have sex with a woman wearing a traditional kanga skirt, because she is only looking for one thing dressing like that and I simply cannot disrespect her wishes, can I?" Ironically, he was in charge of the ruling party's Moral Regeneration Movement as vice-president from 1999-2005.

Some days I love the dark continent, other days I really want to just set the whole fucking place alight so we can start over. Nice big bonfires in Cairo, Addis, Dakar and Durban and we'll wait for them to meet in the middle somewhere.

-d-

 

[SAdude]

Re: South Africa and Circumcision

Um... sadly, yes. You can just about anything done at a state hospital for very little money, hugely subsidised by taxes. You might wait for months to get it done, but if you have no money it will be done for next to nothing. And after that circumcision reduces the risk of AIDS study which got jubber NoelIE all worked up a couple of years ago, the national Health Dept jumped all over that and started the programme.

It may have been a practice abandoned by the Zulus, but amongst the Xhosa a circumcision is celebrated like a bar mitzvah is and very widely practiced. The boys all get sent off back to their ancestral homes out in the rural areas and spend a month learning traditional ways and becoming men, ending with the big day when they are circumcised. It is a matter of pride amongst Xhosa women to have a son become a man; alas the values and traditions are often forgotten once they return to poverty and hardship in the urban centers where the other stuff in the Time article happens. This is a simplistic view, of course, but the numbers are accurate and the perceptions of gender roles as mentioned die hard.

-d-

You forgot to mention the problem we have with circumcisions as they stand, many boys are kidnapped against their will and are circumcised using rocks and many die because of this. That applies to those who 'willingly' (wants to live up to expectations) as well

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

Re: South Africa and Circumcision

Africa work against great odds and lot women over there is workin best with what got change things

so get ya country give um help in wide screen format every week

 

[On The Edge]

Re: South Africa and Circumcision

Agreed. Ours seems more backward in comparison, though - tribal elders/wisemen/witchdoctors (all of whom hold MASSIVE power over the man in the street) frequently say stupid things like "condoms rob you of your soul" and "you will only get AIDS if you upset the spirits of your ancestors" and "AIDS can be cured by having sex with a virgin woman."

These words are immediately deified and become gospel and since the rape culture is so prevalent in the townships it is very difficult to find a virgin woman and thus the HIV+ men turn to having sex with any virgins they can find - babies and toddlers, usually.

It doesn't help when the President of the country says things like "you can't not have sex with a woman wearing a traditional kanga skirt, because she is only looking for one thing dressing like that and I simply cannot disrespect her wishes, can I?" Ironically, he was in charge of the ruling party's Moral Regeneration Movement as vice-president from 1999-2005.

Some days I love the dark continent, other days I really want to just set the whole fucking place alight so we can start over. Nice big bonfires in Cairo, Addis, Dakar and Durban and we'll wait for them to meet in the middle somewhere.

-d-

I agree with you..except burning my hometown Durban hehe ....but the problem is mainly the Township areas....its alot the lack of knowledge...& I think it starts with they traditional healers...really starting to help with the education of AIDS...rather than trying to sell...these traditional medicines..

with AIDs,crime & our crazy politicians....it overshadows...that South Africa is a nice place...if only those problems could get solved ....

 

[SimonSays]

Re: South Africa and Circumcision

Circumcision to combat AIDS is not going to be all that effective. Most of the Studies I have seen suggest it has a minimal benefit. The best approach still continues to be education and putting on a condom.

 

[theFallenGod]

Re: South Africa and Circumcision

Wait ...before we even get into this I think we should take a good hard look at the OP... And all of his LIES and Misinformation and pro-mutilation propaganda.

1) He claims to have been circumcised at birth yet has no keratinization. Which could only happen if he spent his entire life with his dick in a well lubricated condom 23 hours a day.

2) He claims to be in the medical field when the AMA (American Medical Association) and APA (American Pediatric Association) have both suggested being against the idea of routine infant circumcision.

3) He claims to be as sensitive as the day he was born yet couldn't possibly know that since he has been Circumcised his entire life.

4) Every circumcision thread has been shit on him. As if the only reason he is on here is to push his out dated and illogical propaganda on everyone else. Just look at his history... 90% of his posts have been to spread his lies.

I have to wonder what happened to him that made him so anti-natural and pro-mutilation that he would be this vocal at every chance he can get.

 

[cyravance]

Re: South Africa and Circumcision

There are many reasons for the huge AIDS rate in Africa, male circumcision is one. Also, female circumcision, which is quite a bit more extensive and damaging than the male version, and often done under appallingly primitive conditions.
Another reason, almost never spoken of, is the prevalence of animist religions which frequently handle blood ritually. Iasaih Oke wrote a pretty gruesome book, "Blood Secrets", detailing some of these religious rituals.
They need more than condoms, they need education.

 

[blackbeltninja]

Re: South Africa and Circumcision

^I don't think education will help.

The old traditional ways are too powerful. This is why the witchdoctors are able to bend the truth so easily. Exactly why they do it is another story.

I refer to this thread of mine. Guys who offer these sort of services are a dime a dozen and all making money, which tells you everything you need to know about the power of witchdoctors in Africa.

-d-

 

[cyravance]

Re: South Africa and Circumcision

Male circumcision causes AIDS?

That's a new one.

Not that it CAUSES it, but that circumcision is very often done for ritual religious reasons, and often in remote villages where access to sterile equipment isn't there. Boys and girls are circumcised in groups, and the person doing it rarely changes or washes out the equipment between "patients". It's a religious ritual, and many don't decide to go over to a hospital to have it done.

 

[cyravance]

Re: South Africa and Circumcision

Well, sure, anytime you cut into the body you open the door for infection. But because circumcision is so tied into religion it is often done as part of religious ritual by persons who aren't really trained in infection-control, etc, especially in the third world countries.
I don't know if you guys know anything about female circumcision, but that's a pretty nightmarish procedure, and often done by local midwives in villages who use old razors, broken glass or even the tops of tin cans as their "scalpels". The poor boys don't fare much better in those areas...:-(