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Oh No! It's Another Thread About Circumcision.
- Thread starter metta
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blackbeltninja
Guest
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision
This is exactly the issue - it should not be at the parents' discretion. Yes for genuine medical decisions; no for cosmetic ones. If the kid needs to be cut because he has winkie problems, sure. If the parents want him to be cut for no other reason than they prefer the look of it... well, no, not a good enough reason. Because of this, I will not have my son/s circumcised - they can choose to have it done later if they really want to.
Having said that...
I kinda agree with this. I'm simply not bothered at all by routine circumcision, let alone enough to crusade against it. I was done as a kid; everything works fine and I think it looks fine and I'm happy with it. A mate of mine had his done later (at 19) for medical reasons, and he said having it done at that age was horrendous and wouldn't wish it on anyone, so I guess having it done early means I scored, kinda.
-d-
This is exactly the issue - it should not be at the parents' discretion. Yes for genuine medical decisions; no for cosmetic ones. If the kid needs to be cut because he has winkie problems, sure. If the parents want him to be cut for no other reason than they prefer the look of it... well, no, not a good enough reason. Because of this, I will not have my son/s circumcised - they can choose to have it done later if they really want to.
Having said that...
I kinda agree with this. I'm simply not bothered at all by routine circumcision, let alone enough to crusade against it. I was done as a kid; everything works fine and I think it looks fine and I'm happy with it. A mate of mine had his done later (at 19) for medical reasons, and he said having it done at that age was horrendous and wouldn't wish it on anyone, so I guess having it done early means I scored, kinda.
-d-
StationToStation
StickySweetOrganicRaw
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision
hhhhhhmmmmmmmm
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freefall
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Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision
The studies only shows that STIs are found less in circumcised men---statistically. The number of HIV is higher on uncircumcised men, but so far there's no satisfying cause-effect explanation on this. The hood may be responsible in keeping smegma, which heightens the risk of infection, but this lacks evidence and are still in study. Thus circumcision doesn't protect against STDs.
Even the CDC affirms this: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/PDF/circumcision.pdf
Cleanliness of the genital areas and safe sex still hold the key to prevent STDs, especially HIV/AIDS---especially since uncut men who clean themselves regularly has the same risk of catching HIV compared to cut men.
Then again, circumcision issues are culturally and religiously implicated, so it's actually difficult to control circumcision.
The current problem is that most people see circumcision as something against the child's right. They demand the right for the child to have their own choice whether to or not to be circumcised. I honestly don't really oppose it except for females.
The studies only shows that STIs are found less in circumcised men---statistically. The number of HIV is higher on uncircumcised men, but so far there's no satisfying cause-effect explanation on this. The hood may be responsible in keeping smegma, which heightens the risk of infection, but this lacks evidence and are still in study. Thus circumcision doesn't protect against STDs.
Even the CDC affirms this: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/PDF/circumcision.pdf
Cleanliness of the genital areas and safe sex still hold the key to prevent STDs, especially HIV/AIDS---especially since uncut men who clean themselves regularly has the same risk of catching HIV compared to cut men.
Then again, circumcision issues are culturally and religiously implicated, so it's actually difficult to control circumcision.
The current problem is that most people see circumcision as something against the child's right. They demand the right for the child to have their own choice whether to or not to be circumcised. I honestly don't really oppose it except for females.
Nomenclature
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Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision
South Korea has a circumcision rate similar to the US: ~95% of men there are circumcised. The difference? Neonatal circumcision is virtually unheard of; they all go out and get it done between the ages of 18-21 years old. The good thing is that, despite all of the NOCIRC propaganda, male circumcision isn't comparable to "female genital mutilation", in that a cut cock can quite obviously feel pleasure and perform sexually. Unless a man has a psychological issue with being circumcised, he'll generally have a very healthy libido and sex life, regardless of what age it's performed at, and whether it's for religious, medical or cosmetic reasons.
The bad part? If it isn't for medical reasons (such as phimosis: a non-retractable foreskin), it won't be covered by any insurance. . .and it costs about $3,000. You have to wear stitches in your dick for about a week, and involuntary night erection tug on these, causing pain and bleeding. After the stitches come out, you still can't masturbate or have sex for a minimum of three weeks. It takes up to 8 weeks for the bruising to completely go away, and up to three months for the swelling to go completely down.
When getting cut later in life, you'll be under either local general anesthesia, so you'll feel absolutely no pain from the cutting, though not being able to whack off for more than a month will probably be torture. When circumcised as a baby, you will feel absolutely shocking, horrific pain. . .yet you won't remember it. No stitches are required, and newborns don't get erections anyway, so the recovery probably isn't as bad, though I imagine it's still a bit uncomfortable for the baby.
South Korea has a circumcision rate similar to the US: ~95% of men there are circumcised. The difference? Neonatal circumcision is virtually unheard of; they all go out and get it done between the ages of 18-21 years old. The good thing is that, despite all of the NOCIRC propaganda, male circumcision isn't comparable to "female genital mutilation", in that a cut cock can quite obviously feel pleasure and perform sexually. Unless a man has a psychological issue with being circumcised, he'll generally have a very healthy libido and sex life, regardless of what age it's performed at, and whether it's for religious, medical or cosmetic reasons.
The bad part? If it isn't for medical reasons (such as phimosis: a non-retractable foreskin), it won't be covered by any insurance. . .and it costs about $3,000. You have to wear stitches in your dick for about a week, and involuntary night erection tug on these, causing pain and bleeding. After the stitches come out, you still can't masturbate or have sex for a minimum of three weeks. It takes up to 8 weeks for the bruising to completely go away, and up to three months for the swelling to go completely down.
When getting cut later in life, you'll be under either local general anesthesia, so you'll feel absolutely no pain from the cutting, though not being able to whack off for more than a month will probably be torture. When circumcised as a baby, you will feel absolutely shocking, horrific pain. . .yet you won't remember it. No stitches are required, and newborns don't get erections anyway, so the recovery probably isn't as bad, though I imagine it's still a bit uncomfortable for the baby.
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision
The United Nations campaigns against female genital mutilation:
http://www.unfpa.org/gender/practices1.htm
but is content for Americans, Jews and Moslems to mutilate their male children. What does that say about the UN?
The United Nations campaigns against female genital mutilation:
http://www.unfpa.org/gender/practices1.htm
but is content for Americans, Jews and Moslems to mutilate their male children. What does that say about the UN?
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blackbeltninja
Guest
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision
^Wind your neck in and get your facts straight before you start on this.
The aim of female genital mutilation is to take the pleasure out of sex. This is NOT the aim of male circumcision. FFS, you pro uncut guys always fuck that one up, and it blows your credibility immediately.
Mimicking female genital mutilation in boys would be slicing the cock-head off; not removal of foreskin.
-d-
^Wind your neck in and get your facts straight before you start on this.
The aim of female genital mutilation is to take the pleasure out of sex. This is NOT the aim of male circumcision. FFS, you pro uncut guys always fuck that one up, and it blows your credibility immediately.
Mimicking female genital mutilation in boys would be slicing the cock-head off; not removal of foreskin.
-d-
milboy
Porn Star
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision
blackbeltninja, it's simply cruel and barbaric to allow a doctor to strap a newborn infant male to a circumstraint board, and slice away healthy tissue from his penis. 20,000+ nerve endings. GONE. Lot more is lost from circumcision. 229 boys die from circumcision in the USA!! Do you know how many baby boys die a year from leaving the hospital uncut? ZERO!! Do you know how many boys end up with a botched circumcision? Hundreds grow up and have these ugly scarred botched circumcisions.
Foreskin isn't a birth defect.
www.4eric.org learn the real truth there.
blackbeltninja, it's simply cruel and barbaric to allow a doctor to strap a newborn infant male to a circumstraint board, and slice away healthy tissue from his penis. 20,000+ nerve endings. GONE. Lot more is lost from circumcision. 229 boys die from circumcision in the USA!! Do you know how many baby boys die a year from leaving the hospital uncut? ZERO!! Do you know how many boys end up with a botched circumcision? Hundreds grow up and have these ugly scarred botched circumcisions.
Foreskin isn't a birth defect.
www.4eric.org learn the real truth there.
B
blackbeltninja
Guest
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision
^I know all this.
If you read my earlier post I said I won't have my kids circumcised. But having been done myself and having no problems, I can't complain too loudly about it. Perhaps I was just lucky, perhaps the surgeon who did me was just very good, but it is a complete non-issue for me. Sorry.
Interestingly, and ironically, here in .za most of our problems with circumcisions occur in adults who do the tribal custom thing and go and get circumcised by the local witchdoctor when they finish adolescence and enter manhood, kinda like a late bah mitzvah and briss combined. It is the done thing amongst most of the indigenous peoples of the South here.
-d-
^I know all this.
If you read my earlier post I said I won't have my kids circumcised. But having been done myself and having no problems, I can't complain too loudly about it. Perhaps I was just lucky, perhaps the surgeon who did me was just very good, but it is a complete non-issue for me. Sorry.
Interestingly, and ironically, here in .za most of our problems with circumcisions occur in adults who do the tribal custom thing and go and get circumcised by the local witchdoctor when they finish adolescence and enter manhood, kinda like a late bah mitzvah and briss combined. It is the done thing amongst most of the indigenous peoples of the South here.
-d-
Mstrshake
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Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision
I had to be circumcised at the age of 17 because I had phimosis. It made my parents wish they had done it when I was born.
Just letting people know that it can be beneficial in an array of circumstances and that circumcision is not always a terrible and unhealthy idea. Sure, my dick looked like it belonged to Frankenstein during the subsequent 2-3 weeks, but I love it the way it is - that I can actually pull back now.
I had to be circumcised at the age of 17 because I had phimosis. It made my parents wish they had done it when I was born.
Just letting people know that it can be beneficial in an array of circumstances and that circumcision is not always a terrible and unhealthy idea. Sure, my dick looked like it belonged to Frankenstein during the subsequent 2-3 weeks, but I love it the way it is - that I can actually pull back now.
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision
If you've got something to pull back, surely you haven't been circumcised.
If you've got something to pull back, surely you haven't been circumcised.
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision
What exactly was factually incorrect in my post?
What exactly was factually incorrect in my post?
BearBoi
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Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision
My feelings on the topic: My Body, My Choice.
Any nation that claims to embrace social quality must take that motto to heart and apply it to everyone.
I'd encourage anybody interested in this subject to join and/or support http://www.intactamerica.org/
Thanks for posting that. This is indeed the “study” that many people cite when they let fly the inflammatory statement, "circumcision protects against STDS!"
One of the major points they neglect to mention (or simply don't know about themselves) is the fact that the study was conducted largely in a section of Africa where the HIV infection rate is disproportionate to the median population which is largely intact (non-circumcised).
Translation: the study is junk science. Imagine going to China to conduct a study on Cancer rates, and concluding that only Chinese people get Cancer.
On a side note: the concept of “preventive amputation” of body parts is as horrifying as it is asinine. As others have said; condoms are 99.9% effective.
Circumcision is one of the most overprescribed surgeries in North America. Doctors either don't know, or don't care, about safe and effective alternatives. This is especialy true for phimosis.
Did your doctor discuss the use of betamethasone topical cream for 4-6 weeks to the narrow part of the foreskin? It is simple, less expensive than surgical treatments and highly effective. It has replaced circumcision as the preferred treatment method for some physicians in the British National Health Service and much of Europe.
If you are happy with it, that's cool. But I know people that hate it, and were never even given alternatives.
My feelings on the topic: My Body, My Choice.
Any nation that claims to embrace social quality must take that motto to heart and apply it to everyone.
I'd encourage anybody interested in this subject to join and/or support http://www.intactamerica.org/
Thanks for posting that. This is indeed the “study” that many people cite when they let fly the inflammatory statement, "circumcision protects against STDS!"
One of the major points they neglect to mention (or simply don't know about themselves) is the fact that the study was conducted largely in a section of Africa where the HIV infection rate is disproportionate to the median population which is largely intact (non-circumcised).
Translation: the study is junk science. Imagine going to China to conduct a study on Cancer rates, and concluding that only Chinese people get Cancer.
On a side note: the concept of “preventive amputation” of body parts is as horrifying as it is asinine. As others have said; condoms are 99.9% effective.
Circumcision is one of the most overprescribed surgeries in North America. Doctors either don't know, or don't care, about safe and effective alternatives. This is especialy true for phimosis.
Did your doctor discuss the use of betamethasone topical cream for 4-6 weeks to the narrow part of the foreskin? It is simple, less expensive than surgical treatments and highly effective. It has replaced circumcision as the preferred treatment method for some physicians in the British National Health Service and much of Europe.
If you are happy with it, that's cool. But I know people that hate it, and were never even given alternatives.
paatreides
Sex God
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision
Absolutely nothing was incorrect in your post...
Perhaps some folks don't realize there is such a thing as a "partial." Which, at the risk of some major flames being thrown my way, could resolve two very major issues if done at birth. Removal of the phimotic ring would alleviate any possibility of phimosis or paraphimosis, both of which end up medically requiring circumcision.
However, it's good to hear your doctor did not go overboard on your procedure.
Absolutely nothing was incorrect in your post...
Perhaps some folks don't realize there is such a thing as a "partial." Which, at the risk of some major flames being thrown my way, could resolve two very major issues if done at birth. Removal of the phimotic ring would alleviate any possibility of phimosis or paraphimosis, both of which end up medically requiring circumcision.
However, it's good to hear your doctor did not go overboard on your procedure.
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision
Thank you.
What procedure? I'm completely untouched.
Thank you.
What procedure? I'm completely untouched.
BearBoi
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Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision
And…
Actually, there are multiple varieties of female genital mutilation.
The only type most people are familiar with is the most extreme variety which results in total loss of sexual sensation. What they don’t know is that this type, while largely publicised due to its shocking nature, only accounts for about 5% of female circumcisions world-wide and is almost exclusively practiced in remote regions of the sub-Sahara.
Female circumcision is illegal in only a handful of nations around the world. In the majority of nations on earth you can take your infant daughter to a hospital and have her circumcised just like you can do with your son in North America.
The most common form of female circumcision involves skinning back the labia hood… which, physiologically, is very similar to removing the foreskin on a boy.
I think you will find that a great many people, men and women, have psychological issues with healthy, viable, functional parts of their body being amputated without their consent, leaving them with life-long scars.
No form of elective cosmetic surgery is covered by insurance.
All forms of elective cosmetic surgery are expensive.
All forms of elective cosmetic surgery include often painful and extensive healing times.
And it WILL BE YOUR CHOICE.
And it IS NOT YOUR CHOICE.
Get it?
And…
Actually, there are multiple varieties of female genital mutilation.
The only type most people are familiar with is the most extreme variety which results in total loss of sexual sensation. What they don’t know is that this type, while largely publicised due to its shocking nature, only accounts for about 5% of female circumcisions world-wide and is almost exclusively practiced in remote regions of the sub-Sahara.
Female circumcision is illegal in only a handful of nations around the world. In the majority of nations on earth you can take your infant daughter to a hospital and have her circumcised just like you can do with your son in North America.
The most common form of female circumcision involves skinning back the labia hood… which, physiologically, is very similar to removing the foreskin on a boy.
I think you will find that a great many people, men and women, have psychological issues with healthy, viable, functional parts of their body being amputated without their consent, leaving them with life-long scars.
No form of elective cosmetic surgery is covered by insurance.
All forms of elective cosmetic surgery are expensive.
All forms of elective cosmetic surgery include often painful and extensive healing times.
And it WILL BE YOUR CHOICE.
And it IS NOT YOUR CHOICE.
Get it?
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision
I was cut as a baby and have no long lasting psychological trauma, resentment toward my parents, and no resentment towards the doctor. My parents made a choice for me that they thought would be most beneficial and I am extremely happy with that choice.
If I have a son, he will surely be circumcised (I already consulted with my other half on this one) not only due to the fact that I was circumcised, but because to me it just seems to the be the right choice for myself and my family.
I'm happy that you uncut individuals are satisfied with the decision your parents made. You are completely entitled to your feelings/opinions but they are NOT going to change what my family feels/thinks.
Maybe we should mind our own business and focus on our own family before we start worrying about what other people are doing and what decisions are made between a family and their doctor. The only thing these topics seem to do are frustrate and annoy people from each side of the argument
That's just my opinion on the matter -- take it for what it's worth.
I was cut as a baby and have no long lasting psychological trauma, resentment toward my parents, and no resentment towards the doctor. My parents made a choice for me that they thought would be most beneficial and I am extremely happy with that choice.
If I have a son, he will surely be circumcised (I already consulted with my other half on this one) not only due to the fact that I was circumcised, but because to me it just seems to the be the right choice for myself and my family.
I'm happy that you uncut individuals are satisfied with the decision your parents made. You are completely entitled to your feelings/opinions but they are NOT going to change what my family feels/thinks.
Maybe we should mind our own business and focus on our own family before we start worrying about what other people are doing and what decisions are made between a family and their doctor. The only thing these topics seem to do are frustrate and annoy people from each side of the argument
That's just my opinion on the matter -- take it for what it's worth.
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision
I doubt very much that my parents ever even remotely considered the possibility of my circumcision. There were no social or religious expectations that ritual mutilation was required.
I doubt very much that my parents ever even remotely considered the possibility of my circumcision. There were no social or religious expectations that ritual mutilation was required.
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision
My comment was directed more toward the American-folk here because when baby boys are born, usually weeks beforehand, your doctor/midwife will ask if you intend to circumcise your child -- thus the decision lies in the hands of the parents.
I'm not sure where you've seen a circumcision but I would hardly call them "ritualistic mutilation" -- unless of course you would classify a nose job or boob job as ritualistic mutilation because in the end it's just another body modification. My doctor had no candles lit, no chants were uttered, and my procedure was completed very quickly according to my parents, but maybe that was just MY case.
My comment was directed more toward the American-folk here because when baby boys are born, usually weeks beforehand, your doctor/midwife will ask if you intend to circumcise your child -- thus the decision lies in the hands of the parents.
I'm not sure where you've seen a circumcision but I would hardly call them "ritualistic mutilation" -- unless of course you would classify a nose job or boob job as ritualistic mutilation because in the end it's just another body modification. My doctor had no candles lit, no chants were uttered, and my procedure was completed very quickly according to my parents, but maybe that was just MY case.