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Oh No! It's Another Thread About Circumcision.

Age and foreskin status ...

  • Under 30 and cut

    Votes: 24 16.9%
  • Under 30 and uncut

    Votes: 21 14.8%
  • 30-50 and cut

    Votes: 36 25.4%
  • 30-50 and uncut

    Votes: 16 11.3%
  • Over 50 and cut

    Votes: 31 21.8%
  • Over 50 and uncut

    Votes: 14 9.9%
  • I can't tell whether I'm cut or uncut

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    142
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

Ok, as a medical student I could write at length over this, but I have found out that debating this with Americans is pointless for many reasons. There are many reasons why circumcision is redundant but convincing Americans of this is almost impossible because they simply don't want to hear it.

And I am circumcised myself, so it's not like I am biased in favor of uncircumcised penises because I have one.

According to my reading of this thread there are Americans who vehemently oppose infant circumcision.

To the best of my understanding Americans are as liable to be human, as are the rest of the human race.

In my experience on this board Americans are as open to persuasion as are the rest of the human race.

I am persuaded by the end routine infant circumcision argument.

Some excellent posts.
 
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

Absolutely nothing was incorrect in your post...

Um...

What exactly was factually incorrect in my post?

Likening female genital mutilation - aka female circumcision - to male circumcision is like comparing a beheading to a haircut.

bearboi said:
lots of quotes attributed to me

Yeah... these things aren't mine, I don't think. The first one, sure; not the rest.

As for the other stuff about the female circumcision - who actually does that, the minor un-extreme version? I'll admit this is the first I've heard of it. Why do they have it done, anyway?

And as for demonising parents - I won't. My folks did what they thought was right with medical advice they thought was correct, and I refuse to fault them for that. It would be another story if there had been a massive anti-circumcision lobby in .zw back in the late 70s, but there wasn't and they had no reason to believe that it shouldn't be done. Times have changed and the medical advice these days is probably different, but they had my best interests at heart and I can't really expect much more from them in that regard.

-d-
 
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

It shouldn't be outlawed, but I think in order to get a circumcision, you should have to be old enough to make the choice for yourself. At least 16 I think.

I don't think anyone should be choosing for you what happens to your body!
 
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

As a gay healthcare provider there is evidence based research that does show that circumcision Do decrease the rate of HIV transmission. Read the CDC website and the WHO site.
As a matter of personal concerns circumcision makes for a much more attractive penis. No matter how clean one is the is a slight odor to uncircumcised men. I am a firm believer in circumcision and do encourage parents to be to strongly think about circumcision. I have many adult men that were not circumcised at birth that have or persuing circumcision.
 
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

Actually, you need someone to make choices for you from the minute you are born.

Medically viable choices, sure. But not cosmetic amputation of healthy body parts.

As a gay healthcare provider there is evidence based research that does show that circumcision Do decrease the rate of HIV transmission. Read the CDC website and the WHO site.

This has been discussed at some length. No pun intended.

Instead of being repetitive, I’ll summarize: condoms are 99.9% effective.

As a matter of personal concerns circumcision makes for a much more attractive penis. No matter how clean one is the is a slight odor to uncircumcised men. I am a firm believer in circumcision and do encourage parents to be to strongly think about circumcision. I have many adult men that were not circumcised at birth that have or persuing circumcision.

The only person who should make that decision is the owner of the penis. They alone will have to live with it for life. Routine infant circumcision for cosmetic/aesthetic purposes violates that most basic human right.

I am a firm believer in the phrase: My Body, My Choice.
 
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

Circumcision is ok if you prefer a mushroom look to your penis.

Personally, I prefer the mushroom look so I have no problem being circumcised.

But let's not fool ourselves, guys: the only benefit of circumcision if cosmetic. All the date showing health benefits has been either fabricated, manipulated or very poorly interpreted.
 
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

I was circumcised as a baby. I have no memory of the event. I am glad I don't remember it. I do agree that it should be up to the person and not the parents. With that said, I'm not mad that mine was cut.

When I was in an online relationship a few months ago, my bf told me that if he pulled his foreskin down, it would hurt. That's why I'm happy that I got it cut. Not to mention that some look weird. Not all, but some.

I am surprised that I made it 5 minutes into that video.
 
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

Yeah... these things aren't mine, I don't think. The first one, sure; not the rest.


He quoted me, then you. . .and kept using your screen name in all of my quotes. I apologize for that.



As for the other stuff about the female circumcision - who actually does that, the minor un-extreme version? I'll admit this is the first I've heard of it. Why do they have it done, anyway?


The first time I ever heard of a clit circumcision was a rumor that Marilyn Monroe had it done. I highly doubt it's true, but that was the first time I had ever heard of it. I know that female porn stars sometimes have surgery to shorten their labia and make their entryway tighter. . .and for that, they use electric scissors, an electro-cautery gun and stitches. Seems just as brutal as a male circumcision to me.
 
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

There should be a law mandating that every male child born anywhere in the world be CIRCUMCISED. It promotes a gorgeous cock (cut cocks are far more beautiful), better health, and is more comfortable. All that loose skin flapping about is ugly as hell and usually uncut guys have misshaped or ugly (purple) glans. Needless to say, they are hard as hell to keep clean.
 
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

There should be a law mandating that every male child born anywhere in the world be CIRCUMCISED. It promotes a gorgeous cock (cut cocks are far more beautiful), better health, and is more comfortable. All that loose skin flapping about is ugly as hell and usually uncut guys have misshaped or ugly (purple) glans. Needless to say, they are hard as hell to keep clean.


None of the above is true. I have lived uncut for nearly 71 years, and my cock is geogeous both to me and my partner of 27 years, my health is great, my cock is comfortable and awesome to me as well, I dock to great pleasure, and no my glans penis is not misshapened, nor is it ugly purple.


It does need to be say that is is not hard as hell to keep an uncut cock clean. Cut or uncut, cleanliness is very important. I do sometimes get hard when cleaning my cock.
I respect to the end what was decided, for me it was not to circumcise. Thanks.
Shep+*|**|**|*:kiss:
 
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

The first time I ever heard of a clit circumcision was a rumor that Marilyn Monroe had it done. I highly doubt it's true, but that was the first time I had ever heard of it. I know that female porn stars sometimes have surgery to shorten their labia and make their entryway tighter. . .and for that, they use electric scissors, an electro-cautery gun and stitches. Seems just as brutal as a male circumcision to me.

Most European upper class women were circumcised up to WWII. They had all the outer labia as well as the clitoral prepuce removed and only the clitoris remaining. Having a circumcised vag was the hallmark of the upper class lady. Many female athletes also have it done because it decreases the uncomfortableness of the lips rubbing against each other during exercise and also decreases smell. I read that Michelle Waterson, one of the prettiest and best female MMA fighters in the World, is circumcised but I don't know if it true.
 
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

There should be a law mandating that every male child born anywhere in the world be CIRCUMCISED. It promotes a gorgeous cock (cut cocks are far more beautiful), better health, and is more comfortable. All that loose skin flapping about is ugly as hell and usually uncut guys have misshaped or ugly (purple) glans. Needless to say, they are hard as hell to keep clean.

For the most part I agree that cut cocks are more attractive, even though I am uncut. But I've seen some cut cocks that are far more unattractive than any uncut cock, largely due to scarring. Also, the foreskin doesn't always flap around, rarely does on most men. Mine is quite snug actually. It pulls back easily and isn't all that different.
As far as being misshapen due to foreskin, that's probably only in severe cases of phimosis.

The problems you and most people have with uncut cocks can be prevented or treated and easily dealt with.
 
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

Needless to say, they are hard as hell to keep clean.

LOL.

Because washing is hard? It takes literally 20 seconds in the shower to clean it daily. It's easier than washing your hole.
 
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

I like uncut cocks just as much as I like cut cocks. Cock indiscriminate. ;)
 
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

Whether or not anyone decides to go through with it for their child it's important to make an educated decision b/c it's something that can't be undone.

Rare medical issues that require immediate action aside, the cosmetic application of routine infant circumcision is what many people take issue with. Speaking for myself, I believe that the only person who should make the decision is the owner of the penis.

Oh, and for anyone comparing male circumcision to female circumcision: PLEASE spend the five minutes it takes to Google the two and realize that they are two VERY different procedures. I understand it can be frustrating at times to feel like one of the few uncut guys around, but that's no reason to say ignorant BS...

BearBoi said:
Actually, there are multiple varieties of female genital mutilation.

The only type most people are familiar with is the most extreme variety which results in total loss of sexual sensation. What they don’t know is that this type, while largely publicised due to its shocking nature, only accounts for about 5% of female circumcisions world-wide and is almost exclusively practiced in remote regions of the sub-Sahara.

Female circumcision is illegal in only a handful of nations around the world. In the majority of nations on earth you can take your infant daughter to a hospital and have her circumcised just like you can do with your son in North America.

The most common form of female circumcision involves skinning back the labia hood… which, physiologically, is very similar to removing the foreskin on a boy.

Yeah... these things aren't mine, I don't think. The first one, sure; not the rest.
And…

He quoted me, then you. . .and kept using your screen name in all of my quotes. I apologize for that.
My bad, sorry about that.

There should be a law mandating that every male child born anywhere in the world be CIRCUMCISED. It promotes a gorgeous cock (cut cocks are far more beautiful),

I feel the same way about tattoos. I’ll hold you down and cover you in permanent body art that I decide looks better. In fact, I’ll make it a law. :)

better health,
The reason circumcision is not covered by insurance companies is because it is not deemed medically necessary. It is a cosmetic procedure. No definitive health benefits to speak of.

and is more comfortable.
I’ve spent several years applying restoration techniques. I now have enough skin to comfortably fold over my glans, to the point that I’ve fooled urologists. I’ve regained some sensitivity, and I feel much much more comfortable. How repugnant to make such blanket statements for every male on earth.

All that loose skin flapping about is ugly as hell and usually uncut guys have misshaped or ugly (purple) glans. Needless to say, they are hard as hell to keep clean.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I would suggest that, having never known a full and complete penis yourself, you interpret what they are supposed to look like as something strange. Isn’t that just sad?
 
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

How could anyone, in their right mind, after seeing the procedure being done to an infant male on http://www.4eric.org still would consider circumcising their own sons? It's simply a needless surgery forced upon an unconsenting infant male. Doctors make $$$ off of it.

Did you know, that if hospitals in the US were forced by law to perform circumcisions for FREE; every single doctor would say, "We don't perform circumcisions here, it's unethical". Since they wouldn't make a tip off of it (no pun intended) they would refuse to do the 'surgery' on the boy.

http://www.4eric.org is an awesome blog about why Americans need to End Routine Infant Circumcision. Like others have said, this thread isn't about attacking your already cut cock, it's about recognizing the importance of genital integrity and the right's of the baby to have an intact penis. Foreskin isn't a birth defect.
 
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

How could anyone, in their right mind, after seeing the procedure being done to an infant male on http://www.4eric.org still would consider circumcising their own sons?

Is it the screaming that puts you off? I mean, you have been out in public and seen that babies scream for, well, everything since it's kinda the only method of communicating they actually have. I don't see a kid screaming in a supermarket and think "ah... another one being circumcised at the checkout."

I mean, you do know this, right? Screaming baby =/= intense pain all the time.

-d-
 
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

Strapping a healthy infant male to a circumstraint, using a probe to loosen up the adhesion between the foreskin and glans (like using a probe to remove the entire fingernail from your finger), using surgical clamps to grab onto the foreskin, then crushing/creating a slice, then attaching a gomco clamp over the raw sensitive penis head and crushing the foreskin then removing the entire foreskin and discarding it....all while the baby screams, goes into shock, etc.

Foreskin isn't defective. Why would anyone have the right to take away their sons right to an intact penis? Think about it. It's wrong.

229 baby boys in the US die a year from circumcision related problems.

0 baby boys in the US die a year from leaving the hospital whole; intact! (uncircumcised).
 
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

Woah...what?? There's a way to restore foreskin? :eek:

Please expound!

Not to hijack the OP, but yes, there is a way to cosmetically restore the appearance of a foreskin.

In a nut-shell: it is possible to ‘trick’ the skin on the shaft to grow a permanent extra amount, which can then fold forward naturally to cover the glans, granting the illusion of a foreskin. It can even be used to masturbate with. No surgeries necessary! For the method I used, just a small investment in some medical tape from your local drug store is necessary.

The technique I used (the tape method) took a few months to make noticeable change, and about a year to really start making headway. It is not a fast process, but after a couple years (first 6 months attempting to use it 24/7, than slowly tapering off to just night applications) I grew enough skin to achieve desired results.

But again, although permanent, the change is cosmetic only. All the parts of the penis that were amputated during circumcision are gone forever: the frenulum is gone; the Meissner's Corpuscles touch-receptacles are gone; Dartos Fascia temperature-sensitive tissue is gone; important Lymphatic Vessels are gone; Apocrine Glands which produce pheromones are gone; Sebaceous Glands which help lubricate and moisten the glans are gone (the glans are meant to be an internal organ); Langerhans Cells which aid the immune system are gone; Dorsal Nerves are destroyed and amputated; and this is only a partial list.

There are many sites devoted to foreskin restoration. If interested, I’d suggest you start with http://www.norm.org/ and http://www.infocirc.org/rest-e.htm

Before.............................................................42 months later
Before-3%20mo.jpg
42_Months.jpg

(Not mine, just an example.)
 
Re: End Routine Infant Circumcision

To begin with: I was circumcised as an infant. I am very happy that
my parents and doctor made the right decision to have it done. Every male in our extended family is. (We are Protestants.) Yes there was no doubt that I had pain.

But the medical reasons for circumcision are:

(1) a first line of defence against STDs and against HIV/AIDs.
(2) Several scientific studies in many countries including France, which does not advocate infant circumcision, have concluded that circumcisiion provides a major defence against HIV for 60% of uncut men worldwide.
(3)After circumcision, nerves in the foreskin actually grow in the penile shaft and provide more erotic feelings there. They are not dead. I know from experience.
(4)The glans also expands providing an enlarged source of erotic feelings. (I don't think that the frenulum should be excised.) Othewise there is no difference in intercourse feelings between uncircumcised men and circumcised men.
(5) Circumcision avoids phimosis, balantitis and the growth of smegma, which needs to be washed off under the foreskin two or three times a day with mild soap and warm water. Of course with circumcision the accumulation of bacteria and oily secretions are nonexcistent. Hygiene is simplified. Consider also the neglect of hygiene in 20% of all uncircumcised boys and men in the United Kingdom who do not practice daily hygienic washing
(6)What has changed since I was circumcised in the late 1960s is that deadening creams or pain killers to the penile nerve prevent the pain of surgery. I know that both of my boys slept through this minor surgery. There was no crying at all. I was there.
(7)Circumcision is not a mutilation like female clitorectomy (wrongly called female circumcision). My wife who likes oral intercourse says that she only would have sex with a circumcised man because it looks better and is completetly ready to have me enter her mouth.
(8) Circumcision also prevents penile cancer which is rare. ..|

I am not intolerant. Although I think that infant circumcision is a plus for the above reasons. But remaining intact is all right too if that takes place with the parents' understanding of what circumcision
means for the infant boy.

In the U.S.A.80-90% of all Caucasians, African-Americans, and Asian-Americans are circumcised. Only Latinos have about 50% of their infants remain intact. Native Americans in the Western part of the U.S.A.seldom circumcise. These statisics have remained for the last 40 years given 5% differences upand down every year.

The highest number of circumcised infants take place with parents who graduated from college and graduate school who also have high incomes. A majority of middle class parents have their infant boys circumcised. Those who are in poverty groups no longer have Medicaid in their states because they can't afford to pay for it. Education and income are important. I went to a first rate university. Amost every student that I knew was circumcised.

Finally:

The problem with the anticirc minority, mostly overpowering in this discussion, is lack of understanding of medical and scientific studies. They also make demands when suggestions pro and con are better for the parents. Psychologically the foreskin is a fetish to be worshipped. Their biases both in propaganda not in truth, realism and knowledge and with distortion and with fear for others who don't know that circumcision may be really a plus in their child's life. Politically they are dominant. They are brain washed persons with one point of view only. They are like sects in religion.

P. S.
Yes, there are fewer circumcisions in Europe. But history indicates they will not practice circumcision because of a long history of antisemitism against Jews and now against Muslims. Adolf Hitler in Germany wiped out millions of the Jewish people in the Holocaust:(
In Latin America it is influence of conservative Roman Catholic doctrine so most men are intact, except for Mexico and some Central American countries. But religious reasons not to circumcise are not the same as sexual reasons, etc. for American Roman Catholics and Protestants along with the religious practices of Jewish and Muslims.
 
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