Oh No! It's Another Thread About Circumcision.

[Serenx55]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

It might be an unnecessary operation but I'm sure glad my parents had me circumcised. Not a fan of the foreskin!! In fact i'ts a total deal breaker for me!! Lucky for me most american men are circumcised.

I can somewhat agree, I'm happy I was circumcised, because in my life of all the men I dated most had relatively unsexy foreskin. Though I will agree that some men like the Bel Ami Boy's have amazing foreskin( Meticulously cleaned, groomed and lotioned), but they occupy a very small minority of uncircumcised men.

 

[Serenx55]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

cosmetic and lasik and whatnot surgeries are not performed on infants.

Not commonly you might want to say...

 

[Serenx55]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

You're right "necessity" might be a bit of a strong word.

I guess superfluous would be a better way of saying it.

Circumcising an infant who has no choice in the matter seems superfluous since it serves little to no important purpose whereas vaccinations do serve an important purpose (reduce chances of life threatening illnesses).

Well you could in theory if you're wealthy feed your child patee and enough vitamans which will make their immune system more than strong enough to naturally fend off pathogens such as Rubella and its friends. And likewise there are some correlations between circumcision and a reduction in STI/STD infection, but that's a non-issue with condoms.
Regardless, circumcision as an adult becomes significantly more problematic as an adult. You'd pretty much be walking like a spaceman and have to wear a diaper for a week or two. Where as with a child it's a snip which even a 3rd year medical student with simple first aid skills could accomplish.
Either way, I think that it would be great if we could obtain insight from the child and do the procedure like that, but we cannot. And as such the law pretty much dictates the parents to make the decision. If they think it's best, then they have the right to do it, if not then great. I don't think a single MD/DO will ever openly say that either is a better choice.

But anyways, I think we're in overall agreement with each other.

 

[morgaes]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

So is all cosmetic surgery, getting your ears pierced, and lasic eye surgery. It does have it's pros and cons, so if people feel comfortable with it, it's their child and their decision.

Which is why I don't think people should pierce the ears of their infants and I highly doubt Lasik is done on infants.

On another point though, anyone who says "uncut dicks are a total deal breaker" can blow me. When a dick is up your ass, you're not going to notice a difference.

I quite agree with you.

Like I said, I'm not debating cut vs uncut. I'm just saying it should be left until the boy grows up and can make the decision for himself since it's not something that's important for the infant's wellbeing.

I can somewhat agree, I'm happy I was circumcised, because in my life of all the men I dated most had relatively unsexy foreskin. Though I will agree that some men like the Bel Ami Boy's have amazing foreskin( Meticulously cleaned, groomed and lotioned), but they occupy a very small minority of uncircumcised men.

I'm glad to hear that you're happy with your penis but saying that only a small minority of uncircumcised men take care of their foreskin is a huge blanket statement. I come from a country where pretty much no one is circumcised and I've never encountered an "unclean" penis. It just depends on the general personal hygiene of the guy.

 

[Serenx55]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

Which is why I don't think people should pierce the ears of their infants and I highly doubt Lasik is done on infants.




I quite agree with you.

Like I said, I'm not debating cut vs uncut. I'm just saying it should be left until the boy grows up and can make the decision for himself since it's not something that's important for the infant's wellbeing.




I'm glad to hear that you're happy with your penis but saying that only a small minority of uncircumcised men take care of their foreskin is a huge blanket statement. I come from a country where pretty much no one is circumcised and I've never encountered an "unclean" penis. It just depends on the general personal hygiene of the guy.

No no no... most men do clean their penises... I've just rarely met uncircumcised men with extremely sexy foreskin as are paraded around here. Maybe it's selection bias based on the available men in the US who are actually uncircumcised.

 

[ibill1]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

Well, I didn't have a choice in the matter. I was circumcised at 28 yrs. old. I had what is known as a skin tag on my foreskin that would become irritated
and sore after pounding ass. My doctor told me it could become cancerous when I got older and he and another doctor, second opinion, recommended it be removed by having a circumcision. I was out for the surgery but the following 2 weeks were hell.

I would assume an infant also feels this pain but obviously can't verbalize it, just cry all the time.

 

[morgaes]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

Well you could in theory if you're wealthy feed your child patee and enough vitamans which will make their immune system more than strong enough to naturally fend off pathogens such as Rubella and its friends. And likewise there are some correlations between circumcision and a reduction in STI/STD infection, but that's a non-issue with condoms.
Regardless, circumcision as an adult becomes significantly more problematic as an adult. You'd pretty much be walking like a spaceman and have to wear a diaper for a week or two. Where as with a child it's a snip which even a 3rd year medical student with simple first aid skills could accomplish.
Either way, I think that it would be great if we could obtain insight from the child and do the procedure like that, but we cannot. And as such the law pretty much dictates the parents to make the decision. If they think it's best, then they have the right to do it, if not then great. I don't think a single MD/DO will ever openly say that either is a better choice.

But anyways, I think we're in overall agreement with each other.

A strong immune system is not always enough to combat viral infections (polio for example, which has almost been eliminated because of vaccines).

You're right that circumcision as an adult would be a bigger deal, but isn't that the case with any surgery? Bigger body = more that needs to heal.

Seeing as that there are men who do wish they hadn't been circumcised at birth and that getting the snip as an adult is easier than trying to rebuild a makeshift foreskin, I'm still more in favour of the informed decision.

Agree or not, at least I'm glad that some people are able to discuss this without resorting to namecalling and overusing exclamation points

No no no... most men do clean their penises... I've just rarely met uncircumcised men with extremely sexy foreskin as are paraded around here. Maybe it's selection bias based on the available men in the US who are actually circumcised.

Ok, thanks for clarifying

 

[bankside]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

Yes, but semantic arguments can fall apart like a house of cards.

First, a functional penis is different from a vulnerable immune system, and the attitude that parents can choose "what they feel like" is objectively wrong.

The penis and the immune system are not property of the parents. They belong only to the little boy. The parents have no free choice, only a duty of care based on the best available medical information, and preserving the maximum choice for the person whose body they're treating. The law needs to better reflect that this is a responsibility, not a choice like which sweater to put your kid in for the first day of school.

 

[rareboy]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

Ha ha ha.

It wasn't about the rightness or wrongness of circumcision.

It is about exposing that the US healthcare system is just rapacious....who cares if it covered by insurance? The fact is, the American consumer is paying way too much for some procedures and along the way, it is likely overhead and administration costs that represent the lion's share.

 

[morgaes]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

Ha ha ha.

It wasn't about the rightness or wrongness of circumcision.

It is about exposing that the US healthcare system is just rapacious....who cares if it covered by insurance? The fact is, the American consumer is paying way too much for some procedures and along the way, it is likely overhead and administration costs that represent the lion's share.

You must've known the can of worms this thread would open, though

 

[bankside]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

Ha ha ha.

It wasn't about the rightness or wrongness of circumcision.

It is about exposing that the US healthcare system is just rapacious....who cares if it covered by insurance? The fact is, the American consumer is paying way too much for some procedures and along the way, it is likely overhead and administration costs that represent the lion's share.

I think the cost probably reflects issues of liability around any voluntary cosmetic procedure. Fucking up a boob job will get you sued, but fucking up a penis when nothing was wrong with it in the first place will get you really really sued. Actually they should probably charge more on liability alone.

 

[Serenx55]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

Well, I didn't have a choice in the matter. I was circumcised at 28 yrs. old. I had what is known as a skin tag on my foreskin that would become irritated
and sore after pounding ass. My doctor told me it could become cancerous when I got older and he and another doctor, second opinion, recommended it be removed by having a circumcision. I was out for the surgery but the following 2 weeks were hell.

I would assume an infant also feels this pain but obviously can't verbalize it, just cry all the time.

Actually not really... children produce significantly small quantities of product/substance p. Overall babies and children also are set up a lot different in dealing pain, but regardless... a child usually wouldn't remember much pain. I know a boy who was 5 and was circumcised upon coming to the US and said that he didn't feel much pain after the surgery. This as opposed to another guy who I personally know who got circumcised when he converted who had to wear a diaper and craved heavy duty painkillers for a week.
Simply incomparable.

 

[Serenx55]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

Ha ha ha.

It wasn't about the rightness or wrongness of circumcision.

It is about exposing that the US healthcare system is just rapacious....who cares if it covered by insurance? The fact is, the American consumer is paying way too much for some procedures and along the way, it is likely overhead and administration costs that represent the lion's share.

Without a doubt... the US healthcare system is in shambles in many regards.. But it goes far beyond the fact that a lot of people are not insured, but rather the cost inefficiencies due to insurance companies. There are also a plethora of agencies which need to be paid as well and upkeep and overhead ( Payment to staff and our testing agencies) + new technologies... effectively it's all lead to the majority of hospitals in America going underwater. While the entire nation continues to believe doctors are paid too much..


-Personal rant about an issue -
We also need tort reform and to protect physicians from insane lawsuits and make a more conducive environment for physicians to practice in. Just recently a women sued an Ob/Gyn in CT for 60 million dollars due to a medical mistake which resulted in the birth of a child with a defect. Needless to say the Ob/Gyn will no longer be able to practice, but the costs will be places on the malpractice company which governs over Ob/Gyn's in the state. Every Ob/Gyn in that state will now be facing an additional 50k-100k malpractice insurance payment on top of their already 50k-100k current policy. I will also add the this means that no Ob/Gyn will actually be able to live in CT as the average Ob/Gyn makes 250k and has ~120k in student loans.

 

[cynicus]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

And no, it is not about sacrificing your foreskin or parents scarring their infant son for life...it is literally about the outrageous costs quoted by a US hospital for a procedure that could be done on your kitchen table (if you're the kind of sick fuck who would do that).

$23,000

http://commonhealth.wbur.org/2011/08/the-saga-of-the-23000-circumcision-3/

You definitely don't want to get your infant's pecker skin hacked off at Massachusetts General if your bargain savvy.

Your local mohel will likely do the whole schmear for about $1500.00 including anaesthesia for the squeamish.

Old joke: a man walking down the street sees a shop with clocks and watches in the window. He needs a new battery in his watch, so he goes in. The man behind the counter says he does not repair clocks or watches; he is a mohel. The man asks why, then, is the window full of clocks. The mohel answers, "So what would you put in the window?"

 

[MoltenRock III]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

Actually not really... children produce significantly small quantities of product/substance p. Overall babies and children also are set up a lot different in dealing pain, but regardless... a child usually wouldn't remember much pain. I know a boy who was 5 and was circumcised upon coming to the US and said that he didn't feel much pain after the surgery. This as opposed to another guy who I personally know who got circumcised when he converted who had to wear a diaper and craved heavy duty painkillers for a week.
Simply incomparable.

Jesus Christ, you know nothing. 1st you quote "substance P" which has nothing to do with acute pain to start with but rather chronic pain along the lines of low back pain, fibromyalgia, and arthritis. It's also involved heavily in the the vomiting reflex. Who vomits more, children or adults?

And then you go on to give specious results, second or third hand, based on two individuals you "know"? Come on!

Of every 1,000 boys who are circumcised:

20 to 30 will have a surgical complication, such as too much bleeding or infection in the area and in rare cases a penoplasty (surgical alteration) or penectomy (removal of the penis).

It stuns the mind to think how much effort a pregnant couple goes to in order to avoid any complications (ie... no alcohol consumption at all, no 2nd hand latex paint exposure, etc...) to the fetus, yet willingly subject an infant to a procedure which has demonstrable risks on the order of 20 to 350 times more likely than the very things they avoided during pregnancy. Most of this circumcision nonsense was started by the 7th Day Adventists and their related cults and whackjobs, like Dr. Kellogg (yes, of the cereal company). Not to mention the now multi-million industry of trading of infant foreskin cells / tissue. One foreskin can be used for decades to grow $100,000 worth of fibroblasts. If I was a cut guy I'd want to know who was smearing my foreskin on their faces.

Again, this all relates to infant circumcisions, not adults choosing what they want for their own bodies, but rather a forced, unnecessary, procedure for 99.85% of the general populace.



http://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/P20366#PRO_0000033530
http://arthritis.about.com/od/arthqa/f/substanceP.htm
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0024320579905587

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/stro...awards-millions-for-circumcision-mistake.aspx
http://www.mizozo.com/health/09/2010/17/circumcised-by-mistake-parents-sue-hospital-and-do....html
http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/pregnancybabies/Circumcision.htm

 

[bankside]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

I also think we need to distinguish between experiencing pain and remembering it. I've had painful surgeries as an adult and painful illnesses. Whether I remember them or not has nothing to do with whether I experienced them or not. Just because those experiences did not cause some kind of post traumatic re-living of the pain in one continuous conscious experience has nothing to do with it.

 

[glasvegas]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

Well, I didn't have a choice in the matter. I was circumcised at 28 yrs. old. I had what is known as a skin tag on my foreskin that would become irritated
and sore after pounding ass. My doctor told me it could become cancerous when I got older and he and another doctor, second opinion, recommended it be removed by having a circumcision. I was out for the surgery but the following 2 weeks were hell.

I would assume an infant also feels this pain but obviously can't verbalize it, just cry all the time.

Me too. I just done my circumcision last week and it hurts like hell. I am lucky that my recovering rate is faster. Mine is more like a genetic disorder where the foreskin is so tight that I can't have sex ( I kinda assume it since when I put on a condom, it hurts like hell. ) My dad knows it but yet still did not carry out the surgery when I was younger.

 

[MoltenRock III]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

Me too. I just done my circumcision last week and it hurts like hell. I am lucky that my recovering rate is faster. Mine is more like a genetic disorder where the foreskin is so tight that I can't have sex ( I kinda assume it since when I put on a condom, it hurts like hell. ) My dad knows it but yet still did not carry out the surgery when I was younger.

Did you try the "balloon" to help with your phimosis first? Or did you go str8 to surgery?

 

[glasvegas]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

Did you try the "balloon" to help with your phimosis first? Or did you go str8 to surgery?

str8 to the surgery. My doc gave me one option only. But I glad I did it even with the pain. It looks nicer.

 

[ab1313]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

my cut was for free because of phimosis.
i informed about the costs.
in hospital 300 euro
at private doctor 700 euro