Oh No! It's Another Thread About Circumcision.

[Rex]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

Belamo, all you've proven is that you're extremely bitchy and love to argue.

Anyway, fact of the matter is hygiene and cleanliness requires more work if you're uncircumcised. Sensetivity is decreased though if you have the procedure. That's basically it in a nutshell. You can keep beating this until your balls fall off but there are legitimate reasons why someone would want to be circumcised. There are plenty of people who decided to have this done themselves, as adults, so get the fuck over it.

I personally won't ever get it done because I'm happy with the way I am, but at the end of the day you can bitch and nag and post your stupid smiley faces with the eyes rolling but people will still do whatever the FUCK the want to do! Peace the fuck out and move on.

 

[yummylongsword]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

It toughens the skin at the head of the penis, reducing the chance of physical injury.
It reduces the risk of penile cancer.
It reduces the risk of urinary tract infections and hygiene-related medical issues.
It reduces the chance of many, many STI's including HIV/AIDS (and no, I'm not saying cut guys can go bareback all over the place, I'm just saying it reduces the chance by up to 66%).

The only drawbacks are the cosmetic problem and the widely unverified sexual drawbacks that are easily counter-argued with benefits. It seems pretty clear that objectively, the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.

You just throw those statements out of the blue, expecting everybody to consider them accurate just like that, without any further development, as a set of commandments justifying circumcision, and then you happily shift the burden of proof to those who point to you that you simply haven't actually proved anything... except the fact that, as far as circumcision goes, you are a sound pseudo-scientific believer.

*sigh*

If you insist, I'll drag out all of my sources. I always do this, and then people just discount them as unreliable. You'd better have some evidence to back up your claim that my claims are unvalidated now.

Regarding HIV/AIDS prevention:

http://www.bmj.com/content/320/7249/1592.full?

Regarding the "Up to 66% statistic":

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD003362.pub2/full

Regarding penile cancer prevention:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/t38q2m0679375653/

Regarding urinary tract infection prevention:

http://adc.bmj.com/content/90/8/853

Regarding other hygiene issues:

http://www.circs.org/index.php/Library/Fergusson


Enough for you? I expect your reply to include sources negating each of mine, otherwise I will consider this debate won.

 

[belamyi]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

belamo, all you've proven is that you're extremely bitchy and love to argue.

Big news. There's too much work to do with people who believe that mostly everything important, which actually means to them EVERYTHING has already been settled, and controversies only come from mean people who are fond of disturbing the peace of mind of compliant decent people.

Anyway, fact of the matter is hygiene and cleanliness requires more work if you're uncircumcised. Sensitivity is decreased though if you have the procedure. That's basically it in a nutshell. You can keep beating this until your balls fall off but there are legitimate reasons why someone would want to be circumcised. There are plenty of people who decided to have this done themselves, as adults, so get the fuck over it.

I personally won't ever get it done because I'm happy with the way I am, but at the end of the day you can bitch and nag and post your stupid smiley faces with the eyes rolling but people will still do whatever the FUCK the want to do! Peace the fuck out and move on.

Does "more work" mean what to you: like a a rubbing more? Sensitivity is decreased, cut or uncut, as long as you are aware that there is something down there that you use to pee, pleasure yourself and gets in the way, like any other part of the body, while you clean and wash yourself... with whatever regularity you make it. That's basically it in a nutshell. You can keep beating it until other guys' cut foreskins grow back again. There are legitimate reasons to do anything, the main being that people just want to do it for the sake of it, and then use whatever argument to try to justify their decision and claim. There are plenty of people who decide to have this and that done to themselves, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a reasonable decision. Decisions don't need to be as reasonable as they are purported to be, or even be reasonable at all: get the fuck over it.

 

[Rex]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

Keep barking. Nobody's listening anymore.

 

[belamyi]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

*sigh*

If you insist, I'll drag out all of my sources. I always do this, and then people just discount them as unreliable. You'd better have some evidence to back up your claim that my claims are unvalidated now.

Regarding HIV/AIDS prevention:

http://www.bmj.com/content/320/7249/1592.full?

Regarding the "Up to 66% statistic":

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD003362.pub2/full

Regarding penile cancer prevention:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/t38q2m0679375653/

Regarding urinary tract infection prevention:

http://adc.bmj.com/content/90/8/853

Regarding other hygiene issues:

http://www.circs.org/index.php/Library/Fergusson


Enough for you? I expect your reply to include sources negating each of mine, otherwise I will consider this debate won.

Ok, for starters, so that you don't get claim a victory too early... I'm still reading your links about results observed in male and female macauques, and about data concerning a test group in some small country in central Africa, ignoring other possible relevant elements involved in the experience; so far the Langerhan's cells' receptivity to HIV is the only part who is "reasonable" enough, and there I would start conceding..:

http://www.cirp.org/library/general/wallerstein/

As I said, for starters... believers must have patience with skepticals

BTW, there's no free access to this article: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD003362.pub2/full did you linked to it only because you read it was for circumcision, or you actually had access to it and read the whole thing?

I see you already dropped your first claim about the supposed benefits of a "hardened skin, more injury-resistant" without the prepuce, maybe you remembered that It is doubtful, however, whether as much harm as good does not result from circumcision, since it has been shown by extensive observation among the Jews that very great contraction of the meatus, or external orifice of the urethra, is exceedingly common among them, being undoubtedly the result of the prolonged irritation and subsequent cicatricial contraction resulting from circumcision in infancy, which is the corny Kellogg-way of admitting the evidence that removing foreskin starts by exposing what may eventually grow more resistant and healthier... or not.

About the HIV thing: http://www.historyofcircumcision.org/?option=com_content&task=view&id=64&Itemid=0

 

[belamyi]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

Keep barking. Nobody's listening anymore.

Everybody stopped listening, about anything, long before I was born but that doesn't mean there's no use in speaking

 

[yummylongsword]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

Ok, for starters, so that you don't get claim a victory too early... I'm still reading your links about results observed in male and female macauques, and about data concerning a test group in some small country in central Africa, ignoring other possible relevant elements involved in the experience; so far the Langerhan's cells' receptivity to HIV is the only part who is "reasonable" enough, and there I would start conceding..:

http://www.cirp.org/library/general/wallerstein/

As I said, for starters... believers must have patience with skepticals

Well, this is genuinely a first. People generally look at the list on links and hightail it out of the thread. I appreciate the effort.

Anyway, as for your link... it's an interesting read. It mostly makes the case that "No studies have been shown to blah blah blah" which is silly because I just cited several studies lent evidence to exactly what the essay said had no evidence.

I look forward to more from you, but right now it's 6:15 AM, and I'm not waking up... I'm still up. So I feel like any more debate at this point would make me look like an idiot. I'm going to sleep, debate with you tomorrow.

 

[belamyi]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

Ok, for starters, so that you don't get claim a victory too early... I'm still reading your links about results observed in male and female macauques, and about data concerning a test group in some small country in central Africa, ignoring other possible relevant elements involved in the experience; so far the Langerhan's cells' receptivity to HIV is the only part who is "reasonable" enough, and there I would start conceding..:

http://www.cirp.org/library/general/wallerstein/

As I said, for starters... believers must have patience with skepticals

BTW, there's no free access to this article: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD003362.pub2/full did you linked to it only because you read it was for circumcision, or you actually had access to it and read the whole thing?

I see you already dropped your first claim about the supposed benefits of a "hardened skin, more injury-resistant" without the prepuce, maybe you remembered that It is doubtful, however, whether as much harm as good does not result from circumcision, since it has been shown by extensive observation among the Jews that very great contraction of the meatus, or external orifice of the urethra, is exceedingly common among them, being undoubtedly the result of the prolonged irritation and subsequent cicatricial contraction resulting from circumcision in infancy, which is the corny Kellogg-way of admitting the evidence that removing foreskin starts by exposing what may eventually grow more resistant and healthier... or not.

About the HIV thing: http://www.historyofcircumcision.org/?option=com_content&task=view&id=64&Itemid=0

More... http://www.circumstitions.com/Morris.html

 

[belamyi]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

Well, this is genuinely a first. People generally look at the list on links and hightail it out of the thread. I appreciate the effort.

Anyway, as for your link... it's an interesting read. It mostly makes the case that "No studies have been shown to blah blah blah" which is silly because I just cited several studies lent evidence to exactly what the essay said had no evidence.

I look forward to more from you, but right now it's 6:15 AM, and I'm not waking up... I'm still up. So I feel like any more debate at this point would make me look like an idiot. I'm going to sleep, debate with you tomorrow.

Well, when I am discussing I like to know what I am talking about, and if someone tells me I am ignoring some important fact/s, I like to know about it/them.
Anyway, debating (or trying to do it) with me, will make you LOOK LIKE an idiot, no matter whether you or/and I ACTUALLY ARE idiots.

That's perfect for me too, because I have been procrastinating for an hour (which I hate) work that I only can do on weekends... so we will sign a truce for the time being

In any case, let me remind you that my point is not about doing it or not, to side with the Intactivist wackos, but about the degree of reasonability and benefit of the practice.

 

[Zabotugi]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

I've never had anyone complain to me about smell and have actually been complimented. It takes 10 seconds more in the shower and that's it. You don't need tweezers...

 

[mbamike]

Re: The High Cost of Circumcision

I want a refund!!

 

[bigone64]

Why do you hate circumcision?

There is a lot of anticirc attitudes here. Isn't it OK to be circumcised OR intact. Why are we pressured with a lot of hate and fetish (foreskin) talk if we and many others have chosen to be circumcised? That includes parents-infants and children, adolescents, and adults.

 

[skips]

Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

Your very first post here ought to make a splash...

Welcome to JUB.

 

[rareboy]

Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

Oh yeah.

Well it was nice knowing you.

 

[MoufOfKhaos]

Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

I guess race season is over, and now it's time for the great cut vs uncut debate.

Swell. Right in the middle of ban her!!! '11.

Is the world about to end? Why are all these intertwining?

 

[quasar]

Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

^ The moon is still pretty full!!! Always happens.

But I digress. Welcome to JUB bigone64

To be honest, I'd have been pretty pissed if my parents had had me circumcised.

 

[skips]

Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

I picked the right time to start becoming active on here again, I tell ya!

 

[mygaybuffet]

Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

I actually am pro-circumcision, and no, I am not pro-Israel by any stretch of the imagination.
I personally find uncut cocks to be aesthetically off putting. The few uncut guys I've been with were great in bed but it would have been even greater if they had been circumcised.

Just my two cents. Do not crucify me!!

 

[theFallenGod]

Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

Ok... you asked a question I will attempt to answer it from my perspective.

The foreskin is a part of the penis. It not only provides protection for the glans themselves but it also contains several nerve endings which heighten sexual pleasure.

Now, I myself am against parents making this decision for a child unless it absolutely MUST be done. If the child reaches an age later in life and decides to do it, more power to him but this is not a decision for a parent to make simply for aesthetic reasons.
It is no different than amputating a child's arms simply because you, as a parent don't like they way they look and/or you forgot to make arm holes in the sweaters you knitted for the child.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. It's how we were born it must mean it's there for a reason.

 

[skips]

Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

There is a lot of anticirc attitudes here. Isn't it OK to be circumcised OR intact. Why are we pressured with a lot of hate and fetish (foreskin) talk if we and many others have chosen to be circumcised? That includes parents-infants and children, adolescents, and adults.

Ok, on topic: I don't hate circumcision, though I am uncircumcised. I am grateful that my parents allowed me the option to make that choice for myself.