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Oh No! It's Another Thread About Circumcision.

Age and foreskin status ...

  • Under 30 and cut

    Votes: 24 16.9%
  • Under 30 and uncut

    Votes: 21 14.8%
  • 30-50 and cut

    Votes: 36 25.4%
  • 30-50 and uncut

    Votes: 16 11.3%
  • Over 50 and cut

    Votes: 31 21.8%
  • Over 50 and uncut

    Votes: 14 9.9%
  • I can't tell whether I'm cut or uncut

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    142
Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

A major aspect that seems to be ignored here is that circumcision on newborns is often performed without anaesthetic . Whether or not we remember it , I would suggest torturing babies is not a good thing .
 
Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

I don't hate circumcision for an informed adult who chooses it for his own penis. I hate it for me because it wasn't my choice, and if I had had the choice, I would have kept my penis the way it was when I was born. I hate that a part of my body is missing, and I hate that I don't have all the functions the foreskin provides. And it hurts more that it doesn't even have any meaning. No cultural value. It's not a rite. It's not for religion. It was something my parents thought very little about as if they were choosing between two brands of soda. Yet, it's very important to me. And I know that even though this didn't affect their thinking, the lineage of automatic circumcision in US hospitals can be traced to very sick attitudes about sexuality and trying to deny people sexual pleasure.

It's funny that these days you have to argue to the establishemnt that the foreskin provides sexual pleasure, as if that is a fact that must be proven to grant people their right to a foreskin, yet it was the medical establishment that was for circumcision in the 1800s precisely because they said the foreskin provided sexual pleasure and would lead to masturbation which would lead to epilepsy, hysteria, moral decay, bedwetting, dim vision, nerves, weakness, and every other ailment under the sun.

If I ever stroke my penis without lube for very long, it hurts. It's pure friction with thin, sensitive skin. So, in some ways I think to those founders of medicalized circumcision, your mission was accomplished. Although, it doesn't stop me from masturbating--but I can't look at my penis once without thinking about what was done to it. How can you look at a scar and not think why is that scar there. Or why the head is dry. Or why the veins abruptly stop and are curled up. Or why scrotal skin is forced to become shaft skin. Sex for me is not that enjoyable. I've heard of studies that say that men who are circumcised are more likely to engage in anal sex precisely because they get less pleasure from the penis.


It's kind of a strange thing. Such a flip decision made so long aga in a procedure that didn't take that long. What is the phrase? Wrinkle, ripple, or rip in time? I don't know, but you know that thing where one small decision carries such weight for a long time. That's what I hate most about circumcision. It could have so easily been different. I could so easily have had so much more of my penis left. But I don't. And like most things people don't like, it's irreversible (yes I know of shaft stretching), but replacing my foreskin or getting it back--that cannot happen.

I have no idea what kind of trauma you must have experienced to be so mentally scarred by your circumcision. The vast majority of circumcised men just don't care, and most adults who get circumcised report increased sensitivity and pleasure. More nerve endings =/= more pleasure; bigger people don't "feel more" because they have more nerves, that's just a stupid thought.

And you have no way to compare what sex would be like if you were uncircumcised, since at no point in your life were you even uncircumcised. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this issue probably springs from a greater psychological issue you haven't dealt with; no mentally healthy individual experiences so much mental trauma over something that they never even experienced in life. You can't "miss" something you never had, and while it's certainly possible to wistfully imagine life with a foreskin, such ridiculous depressive imagery and emotion is not normal.
 
Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

JUB needs to add a new rule to their Code of Conduct prohibiting any and all discussion of circumcision because it ALWAYS turns into the same thing every single time and it's just pointless now. Why can't everyone just agree to disagree and move on instead of saying the same crap over and over again?
 
Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

^ Obviously the OP already knew this kind of shit would happen when he posted the following:
There is a lot of anticirc attitudes here. Isn't it OK to be circumcised OR intact. Why are we pressured with a lot of hate and fetish (foreskin) talk if we and many others have chosen to be circumcised? That includes parents-infants and children, adolescents, and adults.

Well I made a mistake for opening this issue. It always comes down to this: parents are ignorant and are butchers. The words are always the same: mutilation, chopping, needling, cutting off an arm.

This worship of the foreskin is a fetish.

All this is hateful and sick. I guess that can't be helped.

Two persons said they were glad to be circumcised. So am I...|
My sons slept through the 10 minutes. There was no screaming then or afterward. I held them both.

I respect those who leave the prepuce intact. I envy that. They aren't pushed around. I wish circumcision could have the same right. The bottom line is we are hated. I don't like that. Since I am a pacifist and bisexual, I know there are a lot of people who hate that also...|

So why in the hell would somebody choose to stir up a shit storm with their first two posts on JUB? The world may never know. :confused:

Also, I'm not sure why he would post this thread in Hot Topics when he has stated above that "This worship of the foreskin is a fetish." I'm sure he must be aware that there is a Fetish section here.
 
Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

Why are we pressured with a lot of hate and fetish (foreskin) talk if we and many others have chosen to be circumcised? That includes parents-infants and children, adolescents, and adults.

most people do not care if you *choose* to be circumcised. nobody needs to understand you, but it's YOUR decision.

if you make that decision for somebody else, and take that decision away from them, expect some hate from people who had this done to them, and later maybe expect some hate from your sons for you doing it to them.

by the way .. most people with a foreskin *fetish* are those people that had no choice.
 
Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

Personally, I'm circumcised and I'm more than glad that I am. A circumcised penis looks better in my opinion, and although uncircumcised isn't a total dealbreaker for me, I strongly prefer a man I'm with to be circumcised. I don't consider it "mutilation" as some tasteless people like to call it. I consider it an improvement. I was circumcised as an infant and I strongly feel that my parents made the right choice.
Basically you're pro-circumcision because you're pro-Palestine and pro-Arab who get their dicks cut too. I see the connection. :cool:

No and no. Being pro-circumcision can sometimes be misconstrued as being pro-Israel, which I am not. I wanted this to be in the right context.
 
Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

The status of or personal preference for cut/uncut is incidental, a matter of taste that is entirely subjective. What is not subjective is the imposition of cosmetic surgery on infants who cannot consent, or the imposition of tribal/cultural identity that often goes hand in hand with it. If you have even the slightest iota of respect for your children as individual human beings who have the right do with their own bodies what they will, wait until they are cogniscent and informed enough to consent to the procedure. The vast, vast, vast majority of men on this planet are uncircumcised; the vast majority of cultures do not practise infant circumcision as a matter of course. Here in the U.K., being circumcised is an unusual status; most men who are circumcised have the procedure when they are adults either as a result of personal preference or because of medical complications. It's not really an issue culturally speaking: people have the freedom to decide one way or the other. Personally, I've never experienced sex with someone who is circumcised. It wouldn't bother me one way or the other, since if I've got that far I'm interested in the human being rather than incidences of their anatomy.
 
Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

I seriously can't believe that people get so worked up over this.

Mutilation? Seriously?

You're not circumcising anyone so why should you care so much?

It is not physically disabling and most guys that are circumcised aren't taking their parents to court.


Whether it's physically disabling or not is incidental. It still stands as the imposition of another's will (their brand of ownership, as it were) over the anatomy of one who is no position to consent or defend themselves. If people want it done, fine, let them have the choice, but the culturally entrenched imposition of an unnecessary surgical procedure is the height of absurdity.
 
Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

^Feeding and taking care of someone and allowing them to be vaccinated is done without consent. Even getting a haircut. Sorry, but I don't see the issue.



Really? All of these things are necessary to the child's survival and/or social function. The surgical procedure in question is a cultural frivolity that has no necessity or purpose. Instead, it serves as a kind of stamp of ownership. If parents wished to brand or tattoo their child with a particular cultural mark from birth, would that also be acceptable?
 
Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

I don't hate the act of circumcision, I hate that it was done to me without my consent.

Fuck, I was 17 before I even saw an uncut guy... until then I thought the foreskin was a flap attached to the top of your Urethra! (ya, crazy right?)

But now my boyfriend is uncut. I love playing with his foreskin (which he enjoys as well), I like the way his head feels, so smooth and supple. Then I look at my dick. The head is all spongy and dry, I don't have a fun little "bonus sleeve" to play with, and I don't get nearly the sensation he does... and I never got the chance to experience it, and never will. That's what bothers me. There is something that as a man I was biologically meant to experience, that I never can because it "looks cleaner" this way.

Well that and the fact that my circumcision looks retarded. I have all this loose hanging skin on the bottom, but its tight on the top... it looks like a half a circumcision -_-
 
Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

^Feeding and taking care of someone and allowing them to be vaccinated is done without consent. Even getting a haircut. Sorry, but I don't see the issue.

I agree with this. Especially vaccination. It is potentially more dangerous for the child to undergo vaccination then to have his pee-pee sliced off.

I am only against circumcision because some people use it the same logic to circumcise females. Now that's mutilation.
 
Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

I got my circumcision a month ago and to be honest, it is a painful experience. I have phimosis and it is a genetic disease ( I assume as my dad is having the same problem but both of my brothers are not having it.) I wished my dad could get it done when I am younger as he knew it might passed down to his children and save me from that horrible 5 days of mine.

Circumcision should be done in infants as long there it is necessary to do so. Otherwise, uncut is equally beautiful as cut.
 
Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

how many MORE studies disproving that "vaccination causes autism" crap do we need until people stop continuing that irresponsible and life-threatening trend of being against vaccinations? i mean ... even the guy who published the study that caused all this, revoked it a few years later. many others have disproven it. yet people STILL go around and believe that crap.

do we need a country wide whopping cough outbreak first? earlier this year it was even proven that he has falsified data. YET people still believe that. that's even worse than religion ..
 
Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

penis envy mushroom.jpg

For your viewing pleasure here I have included the glorious penis envy mushroom that many are well aware due to its tripping capabilities. You will notice both cut and uncut penis envy `shrooms in this growing chamber. Choose wise and you will ride the white pony
 
Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

I have no idea what kind of trauma you must have experienced to be so mentally scarred by your circumcision. The vast majority of circumcised men just don't care, and most adults who get circumcised report increased sensitivity and pleasure. More nerve endings =/= more pleasure; bigger people don't "feel more" because they have more nerves, that's just a stupid thought.

And you have no way to compare what sex would be like if you were uncircumcised, since at no point in your life were you even uncircumcised. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this issue probably springs from a greater psychological issue you haven't dealt with; no mentally healthy individual experiences so much mental trauma over something that they never even experienced in life. You can't "miss" something you never had, and while it's certainly possible to wistfully imagine life with a foreskin, such ridiculous depressive imagery and emotion is not normal.

You answered the question in the first sentence when you said you don't know what sort of trauma I went through to be traumatized by circumcision. It was the circumcision. Every research study I have seen examining the circumcised versus non-circumcised child shows infants respond negatively to circumcision psychologically, especially during the phallic period (3-6 years of age), whether they were circumcised at birth or during that period. I can recall as a toddler trying to push the head of my penis back into the penis to cover it. The studies show children who were circumcised have a far greater pain response to injections of vaccines even six months after the circumcision. It's only very recently that anesthetic is used during circumcisions, and it still is not required.

When you say that vast majority of circumcised men don't care, do you know that to be true? And when you say the vast majority of of adults who are circumcised feel increased pleasure and sensitivity, do you know that to be true? Even if you knew that to be true, do you think that is an appropriate counterargument to me saying I have no problem with adults who choose to circumcise themselvs? And do you understand that some of the harm of circumcision is not only in the choicelesness but also in the toll time takes on the circumcised penis? Have you ever wondered why people start wrinkling on their face first in their late 20s? It's because UV sun exposure doesn't immediately cause wrinkles. It causes it over a long period of time and the accumulation reaches critical mass around that time. The same is true with the glans penis and the amount of time it is without its sheath.

I'm not sure where you thought I said bigger people feel more because they have more nerves. You then called me stupid for saying that, even though I didn't. I'm not even sure if the premise of that is true. Fat people for example have larger fat cells in addition to more fat cells. The equivalent analogy would be that if you cut off a person's arm he wouldn't feel anything in his non-existent arm. The foreskin is not extra of something. It is something in and of itself with different types of nerve receptors. It also provides extra shaft mobility. The physical mechanics of sex for a circumcised versus uncircumcised person are completely different in addition to the loss of the foreskin and its nerves.

You also said that in no point in my life was I uncircumcised. I was uncircumcised until the day after I was born. I have all of my birth records and know the precise time of the procedure and the equipment used and the doctor who did it.

I'd like to expand past your misinformation. When you say that my emotions are not normal, I wonder if you would say the same thing to a person who had her clitoris or its hood forcibly removed as an infant? What do you tell people you know who are victims of rape? Do you tell them something is wrong with them if they feel violated?

Humans have the capability to judge something through both a cultural and personal lens. We don't always agree with our culture's way of doing things. Obviously not everyone in the US culture agrees with the right to circumcise a child against his will. The US circumcised females commonly until the 1930s, and female circumcision was only made illegal in 1997 in the US. So, there was obviously disagreement about what used to be an accepted medical practice in the US. Would you dare tell a woman living today who was circumcised in the 1930s how she should feel about that? Why do you dare tell me how I should feel?

People felt strongly enough about the sin of sexuality to tear flesh off of boys and girls and pour carbolic acid on their genitals. Some people feel strongly that they were wrong, including their victims Is that a surprise? Are the victims of that mentality not allowed to feel? Or would I be more normal to you if I felt absolutely nothing?

You come from a cultural view where circumcision is a given because it exists. Maybe you don't even think it's good, but it doesn't bother you that much, and you think it shouldn't bother me. Maybe you haven't studied the topic. Maybe you haven't lived in other cultures that are utterly confused by why the US does this to its infants.

Try this: you are an alien coming to Earth and you witness a baby with a perfectly normal foreskin and then you see a doctor use metal utensils to tear the adhesion between the foreskin and glans, create a dorsal slit with scissors, place a bell on the penis, pull up all the foreskin through a clamping device, crush the foreskin and then slice it off. You see the baby crying so hard it stops breathing. It's strapped down.

You see what is left of the penis now looks dramatically different. Internal organs are external. The glans looks like raw chicken and it's bandaged up.

Is it just a given? Does it seem like the self evident thing to do?

Please don't ever tell me what to feel about a harm that was done to me. I don't have my foreskin or an unscarred penis, but I own my reaction to what happened to me.
 
Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

how many MORE studies disproving that "vaccination causes autism" crap do we need until people stop continuing that irresponsible and life-threatening trend of being against vaccinations? i mean ... even the guy who published the study that caused all this, revoked it a few years later. many others have disproven it. yet people STILL go around and believe that crap.

do we need a country wide whopping cough outbreak first? earlier this year it was even proven that he has falsified data. YET people still believe that. that's even worse than religion ..

It's amazing isn't it? The Internet has given kooks an equal forum to peddle their nonsense to rubes willing to sup it up. The same goes for global warming, and 97% of them agreeing that manmade issues are contributing. Yet the naysaying 3% are given equal air time in the US.
 
Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

I DO believe we're overimmunized, though. Nowadays they have an immunization against everything, it seems like. I asked some young people about "the mumps" recently. None of them had even heard of it, yet when I was a kid we all had to suffer through it.
The thing that concerns me is that overimmunization might be weakening immune systems.
Indeed, when that deadly flu came out a couple of years ago, very few people my age got it. Almost all of the victims were young people or the very aged.
That's something to ponder.

Something to ponder? Well ponder the fact that I got extremely ill from it, while you didn't. Hmmmm, real simple really, you are old enough that you were exposed to a very similar and powerful strain back in 1975/76, were likely quite sick then, and therefore relatively immune to it today.

You do realize why the mumps aren't heard about today, right? Because kids are vaccinated against getting them with their MMRV shots!!!
 
Re: Why do you hate circumcision?

Who said I believed the autism theory? I only had a question.

I DO believe we're overimmunized, though. Nowadays they have an immunization against everything, it seems like. I asked some young people about "the mumps" recently. None of them had even heard of it, yet when I was a kid we all had to suffer through it.

The thing that concerns me is that overimmunization might be weakening immune systems.

Indeed, when that deadly flu came out a couple of years ago, very few people my age got it. Almost all of the victims were young people or the very aged.

That's something to ponder.


That seems to be a bit dishonest way of conducting an argument, don't you think?
you put out there in a previous post:

I've pondered the vaccination issue, too, especially keeping in mind the 1) possibility of vaccinations fueling autism and 2)the weakening of the defense system that over-vaccination does.

Well there doesn't seem to be any real connection between vaccinations and autism. The instigator of that theory admitted that he made it up for financial gain. But just by throwing out that you are pondering the connection either is irrelevant to the conversation at best - or misleading.

Now your response in that post was to an even stranger comparison - that feeding and immunization and getting a hair cut are similar to circumcision.

Well since hair grows back at a pretty quick pace, it seems to me to be totally incomparable.

Feeding is essential to life - so that seems a bizarre comparison.

Now immunization may be a fair comparison - and it is done against the consent of the infant and there is some pain involved. There is a small chance that an immunization will go wrong for certain patients. But that is like arguing that one should not wear seat belts, even though they have saved tens of thousands of lives because there is some chance that if a car is overturned in water, the seat belt might actually trap someone inside the car - even though such a accident is so rare as to be meaningless.

Now back to circumcision: I don't think we should be fighting a civil war over the issue. As a parent, i opted not to circumcise my boys - because i do believe that it is their bodies, and i should not change their bodies for my own personal cosmetic reason without compelling reason. I would not have my girls' ears pierced either - nor would i condone tattoos on a minor. Should their be some physical abnormality, i might condone cosmetic surgery if i felt it would head off being a social outcast.

It would be nice if this conversation could be civil. That is the way we are going to change new parents. By vilifying them, it will only harden their positions. By making a case that there are valid arguments against circumcision in an intelligent conversation - will open the minds of some new parents. By passing laws against it - it will harden peoples' opinions.

As a father, i spent a lot of time on bulletin boards of prospective and and new parents. I have seen over and over the arguments for and against. I have almost never seen a discussion that did not feel like the hatfields verses the mccoys.
 
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