Oh No! It's Another Thread About Circumcision.

[asu1117]

Re: California governor signs law preventing male circumcision ban

Are you bringing up this BS argument .. again? When will you start to do your research before posting such nonsens claims? The "recent flu" did affect more young people than usual because it was a relative of a strain that many old people already experienced during their life and thus their immune system knew how to deal with the virus, even after several decades. Now guess what vaccines are for!

Apart from that this is totally irrelevant to this topic - as blackbeltninja already pointed out.

Not to mention that one of the very big reasons that younger people are more apt to catch the flu is because of exposure. Hello, school. Kids are packed into small rooms with each other all day long. Put one sick kid in there to cough and sneeze all day and it's not surprising it spreads. And with young adults, college dormitories. When 30+ people are sharing one bathroom and multiple people are sharing a bedroom.. Well, you get the point. This has nothing to do with our immune systems or vaccinations.



As for the topic on hand, I think this is probably good. We shouldn't be banning things like that legally, that's not the right route to go. And really, shouldn't American politicians have more important issues to work on right now?

 

[Zabotugi]

Re: California governor signs law preventing male circumcision ban

Actually, Zabot, in the case of Muslims, there's a hard, practical reason that circumcision is beneficial.

You'll notice that most of them live in desert areas where water is scarce, so they can't bathe as frequently as we do. In Saudi Arabia, where Islam first began, the water scarcity is particularly acute. They have to get most of their fresh water from desalination plants.

Circumcision, under those particular conditions, would indeed reduce the rate of infection.

You would think, as our ancestors traveled the world, evolution would have done away with it if it was that disabling. It's not like if you skip a few days of bathing you get phimosis and UTIs. I don't even get smegma buildup. People act like it's rocket science to keep a foreskin clean!

Perhaps you are right, but it gets really hot in a lot of places in the world (South America, India, SE Asia) and although these places have more access to water probably, you don't see them running out to get cut on a grand scale. I bring this up because some people say that it's hard to have a foreskin in hot weather (and yes this is when they have access to water).

 

[Zabotugi]

Re: California governor signs law preventing male circumcision ban

It still confuses me why this is such a big issue on this forum. No one I have met outside of JUB cares at all about this.

Why post then?

 

[Zabotugi]

Re: California governor signs law preventing male circumcision ban

Because I'm expressing my opinion. Something everyone is doing.

I typed a really smartass response but...okay, withdrawn. I personally think that when piss poor parents are taking out (small) loans that they can't pay back to get their kid circ'd that something is wrong, but that's getting into a whole different field. Obviously, for this to happen, for them to BAN the banning of circumcision SOMEBODY must have cared about the issue. I wasn't even for the circ ban just so you know.

 

[Zabotugi]

Re: California governor signs law preventing male circumcision ban

Yes, a small group in California. I live in New York/New Jersey and I'm just saying no one I have met has cared about it.. I'm not saying no one in the world cares about it. As far as I can tell though, this group represents an extreme minority in the US.

I think there are a lot of people that are against circumcision, but don't try to make bans.

 

[Dduder]

Re: California governor signs law preventing male circumcision ban

(CNN) -- California Gov. Jerry Brown signed into law Sunday a bill that prevents local governments from banning the practice of male circumcision.

The legislation comes in response to an effort this summer by a San Francisco Bay Area advocacy group opposed to the practice to get a measure proposing a citywide ban added to the November 8 city ballot.

In July, a Superior Court judge ordered the proposed measure removed from the ballot, saying that male circumcision is "a widely practiced medical procedure" and that medical services are left to the regulation of the state, not individual cities.

The legislation signed Sunday, which takes effect immediately, prohibits governments at the local or county level from "restricting the practice of male circumcision" and "declares that the laws affecting male circumcision must have uniform application throughout the state."

What did you expect? Jews are extremely powerful in the U.S. They are to the U.S of 2011 what the WASP elite was to the U.S of 1960.

Then, there is the issue of personal pride. Most American politicians and judges are circumcised. Allowing a ballot to pass banning male circumcision on the grounds that it is a non-consenting genital mutilation of male children would be akin to those judges and politicians admitting that they are genitally mutilated, and no self-respecting man would ever admit that he has lesser genitals. It is a hopeless war for the anti-circumcision groups.

I am in medical school and I never understood what is the reason for this surgery or why it took such hold. The benefits confered by it are minimal and easily obtained to a higher degree by far less radical means. In fact, the risk of infection, penis amputation, horrible scarring and even death are much greater than the very little and very minimal benefits confered by it. Girls are at a much higher risk of breast cancer than men are of cancer of the prepuce. Should we amputate the breast tissue of little girls as soon as they are born as a preventive measure? Circumcision is a primitive religious rite that became a legitimate medical procedure for reasons that elude logic.

One of the things that I have learned when having discussions about this on the internet is that people are simply not rational. This applies to both the pro and the con circumcisions groups, although the pro-circumcision groups often give extremely emotional rather than rational reasons to support this practice("it is my religion", "God commanded", "I want my son to look like me.""Foreskins are nasty.""the uncircumcised penis looks like an ant-eater", etc). Mothers think that an uncircumcised penis will bring all manners of horrible diseases to their sons and fathers believe that their sons will be traumatized if their penises don't look like that of their dad and school mates. People are just incredibly stupid, and it is the very low average IQ of Humanity that allows for ancient irrational traditions to be perpetuated.

 

[yummylongsword]

Re: California governor signs law preventing male circumcision ban

The problem with 99% of people arguing for or against circumcision is that they have either always been uncircumcised or always been circumcised, and have no reference for comparison.

The vast majority of people who are circumcised later in life say that they are very satisfied with the results, even people who have no medical necessity for the operation.

http://www.circinfo.net/men_circumcised_as_adults_tell_it_as_it_is.html

Combine this with the possible health benefits, and you have a compelling case for circumcision. Basically, the anti-argument comes down to allowing the person to choose for themselves due to cosmetic reasons, but it's ultimately the parent's decision to make the best health choice for their child.

Circumcision is not necessary, but it is definitely beneficial. There is NO loss save the temporary pain from the procedure (which is far less when you're young, due to memory loss and lack of erections) and the physical loss of skin (which does not reduce pleasure unless a very specific, "tight" style of circumcision is performed). In the end, both the objective and subjective benefits outweigh the cons, which are only subjective.

 

[blackbeltninja]

Re: California governor signs law preventing male circumcision ban

The only difference is the cosmetic aspect, which is hardly a gaping hole.

Right...so the smallpox vaccine didn't save any lives, nor did the polio vaccine. The BCG - complete waste of time. Rubella for the ladies - laughable.

Is that REALLY what you're saying, or is this an elaborate joke which I have uncharacteristically missed the punchline of?

-d-

 

[Corny]

Re: California governor signs law preventing male circumcision ban

^On another note, Corny, it might surprise you to learn that I didn't make up the vaccination-makes-us-weaker theory. A Lithuanian woman was the first person who mentioned it to me.

That's great, you *always* bring up some friend who mentioned something to you. Do you ever think for yourself?

To carry the theory further, she says that a wide part of the Eastern Bloc sees Americans as "over-medicated" in general.

Probably the whole of europe believes that. Thank pill-packs with the size of a milk-jug in supermarkets and similar. People don't tend to throw a pill for everything here, add all the pills for psychological disorders that every college student seems to swallow like candy etc pp.

American doctors have this theory that Germans overprescribe herbal medicine. The use of St. John's Wort for depression is sometimes singled out. Is this idea true? American doctors see it as unsound medical practice.

I have no clue what St Johns Wort is supposed to be, but there are some doctors that do describe diluted homeopathic crap for everything - but only the people who believe in it go there. Most people are very critical about that. There are several herbal remedies for harmless things like the common cold etc though. They are do not need to be prescribed, you can get them on your own. BUT everything that counts as medicine has to be scientifically proven to be helping.

And now stop shifting this, last time you claimed autism, no you claim a weak immune system to be a reason to stop vaccination. Different reasons, same conclusion - on the basis of unfounded and dubious information, you advocate something dangerous that kills children because misinformed people like yourself.

 

[Pierresro]

Re: California governor signs law preventing male circumcision ban

I find it weird that in a Jesus Freaked country they talk about how God made us in his own likeness but made a mistake. What bullshit

 

[MyReply]

Re: California governor signs law preventing male circumcision ban

It was a stupid proposition to try and put on a ballot anyway; there was no way a ban on circumcision was ever going to pass. Zealots with nothing else better to do.

 

[Dduder]

Re: California governor signs law preventing male circumcision ban

It was a stupid proposition to try and put on a ballot anyway; there was no way a ban on circumcision was ever going to pass. Zealots with nothing else better to do.

Yes, but is should have passed. It is the moral, ethical and legal thing to do.

 

[Zabotugi]

Re: California governor signs law preventing male circumcision ban

The problem with 99% of people arguing for or against circumcision is that they have either always been uncircumcised or always been circumcised, and have no reference for comparison.

The vast majority of people who are circumcised later in life say that they are very satisfied with the results, even people who have no medical necessity for the operation.

http://www.circinfo.net/men_circumcised_as_adults_tell_it_as_it_is.html

Combine this with the possible health benefits, and you have a compelling case for circumcision. Basically, the anti-argument comes down to allowing the person to choose for themselves due to cosmetic reasons, but it's ultimately the parent's decision to make the best health choice for their child.

Circumcision is not necessary, but it is definitely beneficial. There is NO loss save the temporary pain from the procedure (which is far less when you're young, due to memory loss and lack of erections) and the physical loss of skin (which does not reduce pleasure unless a very specific, "tight" style of circumcision is performed). In the end, both the objective and subjective benefits outweigh the cons, which are only subjective.

Men circ'd as adults, that had no medical need, had motivation to get it done so of course they would like it. How about the men that have restored and are happy with it? And EVERY surgery is going to hurt regardless of what age you are.

 

[blackbeltninja]

Re: California governor signs law preventing male circumcision ban

We do tend to overmedicate - I recall a number of times in here JUBbers recommending other JUBbers head out to Casualty for the slightest little thing, which seems completely OTT to me - but I'm not sure that over-vaccinating is an issue. As far as medicating goes, physicians are too eager to prescribe antibiotics - I understand it might be better to be safe (and safe from lawsuits) than sorry, but it is largely unnecessary for the most part and patient compliance is a major worry.

BTW, this is from someone who is a malariologist with a background in genetics and biochemistry, not medicine.

Some people do rush out to get the latest flu jab every year, and proper flu still kills of several thousand people as it scythes its way through the population. Corny makes valid points, that the older people simply have more experienced immune systems, and that that is exactly what a vaccine is supposed to do for those of us who don't have the antibodies.

In terms of a healthy immune system, it should be challenged every now and again. People who use antibacterial wipes and antibacterial soap and all that other bollocks are only really helping themselves short-term - there could be major issues from over-use of these things down the line.

-d-

 

[matty20]

Do you care whether someone is circumcised?

Like, if you're blowing a guy, is there any difference in the waythat you do it depending on whether he's circumcised or not?

 

[jensu846]

Re: Do you care whether someone is circumcised?

the only difference is that I play alot with his foreskin with my tongue, I really like to get my tongue between his cock and the foreskin and taste him. sometimes he will have cheese in there for me. love it!

 

[MoufOfKhaos]

Re: Do you care whether someone is circumcised?

*checks calendar* Ah, so it is about that time.

Answer. No. And hey, guy above, i'm eating breakfast here!

 

[LoveInEcstacy]

Re: Do you care whether someone is circumcised?

Im not too big on the dick cheese. Im partial to circumsized guyz, but id never turn away an uncut guy either

 

[HunterM]

Re: Do you care whether someone is circumcised?

*checks calendar* Ah, so it is about that time.

Answer. No. And hey, guy above, i'm eating breakfast here!

Hey, that's his breakfast

 

[sixthson]

Re: Do you care whether someone is circumcised?

Hey, that's his breakfast

I wonder if it tastes like Honey Nut Cheerios?