Oh No! It's Another Thread About Circumcision.

[Laufey]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

If parents had their infant child tattooed then child services would be involved.

The way it should be with circumcision, but isn't.

 

[RJ1979]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

As parents it's our job to make health decisions for our children all the time. Kinda goes with the territory. Until a true medical professional can prove that the foreskin provides some actual purpose other than perceived heightened sexual pleasure, the agruement is pointless..

How about medical professionals prove that it's vital that it be removed at birth or else a life of disease will follow?

That will never happen as low and behold the vast majority of men in the world never have a medical issue with their penis or foreskin. Not one medical organization in the world recommends it at birth. Not even the US ones.

 

[mikey3000]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

How about medical professionals prove that it's vital that it be removed at birth or else a life of disease will follow?

That will never happen as low and behold the vast majority of men in the world never have a medical issue with their penis or foreskin. Not one medical organization in the world recommends it at birth. Not even the US ones.

Really? How about the WHO and UNAIDS just to name a couple, and The American Academy of Pediatrics...

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2007/pr10/en/index.html

http://pacifica.patch.com/articles/american-academy-of-pediatrics-recommends-circumcision-14eb0602

 

[RJ1979]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Really? How about the WHO and UNAIDS just to name a couple, and The American Academy of Pediatrics...

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2007/pr10/en/index.html

http://pacifica.patch.com/articles/american-academy-of-pediatrics-recommends-circumcision-14eb0602

Still it's only one medical organization whose policy was very recently updated. More importantly it's a US one whose need to sell foreskin for research far outweighs the overwhelming evidence that it's pointless and damaging. As it turns out the AAP states only that it sould still be coverd by MedicAid and that the benefits outweight the risk (wrong) not that it recommends it for all newborns.

The rest of the western world have not chaged their policies and men are not dropping like flies from HIV or any other sexual disorder. Again the US have the highest rates of all the medical problems the Circumcision is supposed to prevent and not to mention all the medical issues the circumcision can actually cause.

In the US they need to justify circumcision as some kind of medical solution so they can get their $$$$. The rest of the world see circumcision for what it is. A solution thats looking for a problem.

Before we knew any better it was a cure for all kind of ailments, HIV and AIDS is just the latest in a long line and to top it off It clearly doesn't work.

 

[mikey3000]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Still it's only one medical organization whose policy was very recently updated. More importantly it's a US one whose need to sell foreskin for research far outweighs the overwhelming evidence that it's pointless and damaging. As it turns out the AAP states only that it sould still be coverd by MedicAid and that the benefits outweight the risk (wrong) not that it recommends it for all newborns.

The rest of the western world have not chaged their policies and men are not dropping like flies from HIV or any other sexual disorder. Again the US have the highest rates of all the medical problems the Circumcision is supposed to prevent and not to mention all the medical issues the circumcision can actually cause.

In the US they need to justify circumcision as some kind of medical solution so they can get their $$$$. The rest of the world see circumcision for what it is. A solution thats looking for a problem.

Before we knew any better it was a cure for all kind of ailments, HIV and AIDS is just the latest in a long line and to top it off It clearly doesn't work.

No offense, but here's a list so you can get your facts straight. The United States is not the leader in HIV/AIDS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_HIV/AIDS_adult_prevalence_rate

 

[justaguy]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Remarkable!!!
Didn't expect the poll to be so marked.
10-1 uncut in the under 30's
4 uncut to 24 cut in the over 30's
Small sample, but very clear 'cut' poll that suggests that the 'art' of circumcision may be dying out.

 

[figjam]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

So ... guys prefer cut do they? Well ... what say it's a dying art? Lets see by this here poll.
Yes it's another cicumcision poll!!! Yay!!!!

Art? Mutilation more likely. Most African and European men are uncut - nice, beautiful and natural. I do not understand why you would want to disfigure something so natural. The whole "better" hygiene debate is also farce - we all know how to wash...

 

[figjam]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

No it is not genital mutilation, not if done by a compentent health care provider and I would guess that 95 +% of all who are circumcised are happy with it, would not change if they could. Multiple studies in Africa suggest that circumcised men have up to a 76% decrease in HIV infections compared to uncut men.
Circumcision also lowers the occurance of the HPV virus.

Hogwash! http://intactamerica.org/learnmore

http://www.aidscirc.org/2012/07/circumcision-prevents-hiv-infection-is.html

Circumcision proponents have published several opinion pieces that argue that male circumcision prevents HIV infection. The authors, however, have been unsuccessful in convincing medical authorities of the value of circumcision in reducing HIV transmission/reception. The Council on Scientific Affairs of American Medical Association calls male circumcision a "non-therapeutic procedure" and said that "circumcision cannot be responsibly viewed as 'protecting' against such infections."UNAIDS says that relying on male circumcision is "like playing Russian roulette with two bullets in the gun instead of three."

Kevin23 -

Put your prejudice aside and think about the science and reality of it, a 76% decrease

When did myth become science or reality Kevin?

 

[eddielee]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

I think circumcision will always be around. I don't get the cut/uncut argument. I take a guy as he is, either way. If you choose a guy based on foreskin status, you eliminate millions of hot, wonderful guys. I've never turned down a guy because he was, or was not circumcised.

 

[figjam]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

I think circumcision will always be around. I don't get the cut/uncut argument. I take a guy as he is, either way. If you choose a guy based on foreskin status, you eliminate millions of hot, wonderful guys. I've never turned down a guy because he was, or was not circumcised.

I disagree. I would not be able to have a serious relationship with a circumsized guy. It is unnatural... Uncut guys only.

 

[RJ1979]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

No offense, but here's a list so you can get your facts straight. The United States is not the leader in HIV/AIDS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_HIV/AIDS_adult_prevalence_rate

Not the leader but the highest in the western world (which is what I was referring to) and to make my point the US has the most circumcised men. The HIV/AIDS argument just doesn't work.

 

[backagain]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

To lighten up the debate, I heard this joke the other night.

A father was teaching his 3 year old uncircumcised son how to pee.

1) unzipper your pants
2) pull out your penis
3) pull back the foreskin
4) Pee
5) retract the foreskin
6) put your penis back in
7) zipper up your pants.

When the child was 12, he heard his son in the bathroom saying 3,5.. 3,5... 3,5

 

[medic1]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

No it is not genital mutilation, not if done by a compentent health care provider and I would guess that 95 +% of all who are circumcised are happy with it, would not change if they could. Multiple studies in Africa suggest that circumcised men have up to a 76% decrease in HIV infections compared to uncut men.
Circumcision also lowers the occurance of the HPV virus. Penile cancer, though it is rare, favors the uncut penis, in one study of 89 penis cancer cases, 98 % were uncut. Source http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/malecircumcision/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------............................................................................................................................................................A well written and researched post , but , to say at a guess after your research was wrong , just my opinion my friend no flame .
My Lover was circumcised and he never forgave his parents for having that done to him when he was only a few days old







Put your prejudice aside and think about the science and reality of it, a 76% decrease in you chance of getting any infection is tremendous. Think of the lives saved, decrease in suffering and deaths, quality of life. All of these benefits from a simple operation that takes about 4 minutes. And the claim of decreased sensitivity, sex is not as good, etc, is just plain false. I have never heard a circumcised guy say he didn't like sex or got nothing out of it. The large families in the Jewish and Muslum communities suggest they must injoy it greatly.

A good post , my lover was ciircumcised and he never forgave his parents for doing that to him . As for Muslim and Jewish communities enjoying it greatly , do you know how Orthodox Jews make love "if not give it a Google" , The reason why they usually
have large families is more to do with birth-control rather than anything else very similar to Roman Catholics and the Papal-Decree
that birth-control is an affront to God . No Flame my friend but i think that your post deserved an answer .

 

[kevin23]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Those who question the science of it, these are not my facts, I am not a doctor. The CDC, WHO, UNAIDS, I don't think they made their decision without solid facts. They also advacate clean water, immunizations and other health practices that all of us can agree on. And if a simple operation can prevent HIV infections in men, in Africa. I don't think they should be denied the opportunity to lessen the chance of being infected by HIV. True the studies suggest it works best in Africa, but I don't think they should be denied this option . The circ recommendation for Africa by these organizations target the 15 to 49 year old age group. ( For those of you who do not read the referenced material)

 

[RJ1979]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Those who question the science of it, these are not my facts, I am not a doctor. The CDC, WHO, UNAIDS, I don't think they made their decision without solid facts. They also advacate clean water, immunizations and other health practices that all of us can agree on. And if a simple operation can prevent HIV infections in men, in Africa. I don't think they should be denied the opportunity to lessen the chance of being infected by HIV. True the studies suggest it works best in Africa, but I don't think they should be denied this option . The circ recommendation for Africa by these organizations target the 15 to 49 year old age group. ( For those of you who do not read the referenced material)

Only proper education and access to condoms is going to help those in Africa. It will prevent far more cases of HIV and be a lot less barbaric.

Being circumcised didn't help the HIV+ circumcised men in the US, condoms would have but the eveidence seems to suggest that many circumcised men hate to use them because they can't feel anything with their already desensitized penis when wearing a condom.

An intact man as nature intended has no issues with sensitivity and may actually prefer the condom as it can help lessen a too intese feeling or help to make them last longer.

Circumcision is not the way to go as an appropriate form of HIV prevention (could even make it worse) and fortunatly most health organizations still don't recommend it as such.

 

[medic1]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

As parents it's our job to make health decisions for our children all the time. Kinda goes with the territory. Until a true medical professional can prove that the foreskin provides some actual purpose other than perceived heightened sexual pleasure, the agruement is pointless.

Besides, I'll bet that the grown man who feels scorned by his circumsized penis probably has lots of other issues he's probably trying to pin on his parents as well. Us parents get blamed for everything when a young person stumbles.

Your foreskin was not put there by evolution just to look nice .
The foreskin protects the Penile Glans from many infections , especially the opening to your urethra , as for saying the grown man probably has lots of other issues and trying to pin them on his parents as well .

C`mon mate you are clever enough to know better than that . From a Medical Professional .

 

[ozMatty]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Yes but as western doctors will tell you these studies don't repeat in areas of good sanitation. Clean water does more good on more levels than circumcision does in one.

 

[mikey3000]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Also, remember that unprotected sex is not the only method of transmission. Sharing needles is another medhod, and if anyone remembers the 80's, intravenous drug use was pretty rampant in the community too. Cant blame it all on unprotected gay sex.

 

[RJ1979]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Also, remember that unprotected sex is not the only method of transmission. Sharing needles is another medhod, and if anyone remembers the 80's, intravenous drug use was pretty rampant in the community too. Cant blame it all on unprotected gay sex.

So how on earth is circumcision gonna effect those people?? As is obvious it won't, they will still get HIV.

 

[kevin23]

Re: Is the art of circumcision dying?

Only proper education and access to condoms is going to help those in Africa. It will prevent far more cases of HIV and be a lot less barbaric.

Being circumcised didn't help the HIV+ circumcised men in the US, condoms would have but the eveidence seems to suggest that many circumcised men hate to use them because they can't feel anything with their already desensitized penis when wearing a condom.

An intact man as nature intended has no issues with sensitivity and may actually prefer the condom as it can help lessen a too intese feeling or help to make them last longer.

Circumcision is not the way to go as an appropriate form of HIV prevention (could even make it worse) and fortunatly most health organizations still don't recommend it as such.

RJ1979, perhaps I should have the CDC, WHO, UNAIDS to contact you so you can correct their policies. How can you claim that a circumcised guy don't feel anything? I have plenty of "feeling" in my penis. And if you are uncircumcised how can you claim to know. I usually don't get in these debates, no not debates, arguements. But if circumcising 10 guys or 100 saved one life I would think it was worth it.

Hard-up1, is correct, there is no point in bringing this topic up , it should probably be moved to the entertainment section .