Ok ...can Anyone Explain It All To Me ?

[guesshoo]

Here goes ...and this post is not meant to offend anyone. I am I guess what you call a bisexual...meaning,I go both ways,I have been married,dated women and still do. I find a lot of women attractive and I do mean in a sexual way.

Here is the clincher...I find men just as attractive and in sexual ways also.

So you thought you were fucked up????....lol

When I say I find men as attractive as women....I do mean men. A man that acts like a man,walks and talks as a man.

Here is the part I just can't get a grip on.....Why do so many gay men try to be so feminine?

When I say try I mean the flamers and Queens. They try to look like women to the point of walking,talking and dressing like women....seems to me as kind of defeating ones own purpose.

I guess what made me do this post,I was in a department store last night and here was this queen dressed in white tight spandex pants,a very feminine shirt or blouse,heeled shoes makeup the whole nine yards. He also seemed to be trying to draw attention to himself. I was really sad to see this.....As hard as the gay community is working and trying to be accepted , this was not the way to do it.

In the privacy of ones own home or in the company of his own peers I think it's fine.

It's just the wrong image to put out there in the general public and expect them to greet us with open arms.

But then again what do I know.....? I am double fucked up

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

Here is the part I just can't get a grip on.....Why do so many gay men try to be so feminine?

We don't. You just don't recognize most of us.

 

[Elwood]

Because that is who they are, and they are very comfortable with themselves. Why should anyone change themselves to fit into the stereotypical norms of what society thinks is right?

No one is asking you to love or even like them, just to accept them for who they are!

 

[gsdx]

He also seemed to be trying to draw attention to himself. I was really sad to see this.....As hard as the gay community is working and trying to be accepted , this was not the way to do it.

He was not trying to be accepted. He was merely trying to express himself. Why should he be different than anyone else who wishes to express themselves? A lot of straight people express themselves in ways which can cause damage to one's eyesight.

Take a look at this site and you'll see what I mean: http://www.peopleofwalmart.com

 

[kevbo]

Maybe she can help:

 

[guesshoo]

I was expecting all the above, but go back and read your own post very carefully.

Matter OF SPLATTER....What do you mean by...the jocks (douche? )
The cleavage? might as well be hanging out?
The IDIOTS?
Why are they homophobes? These are just people expressing themselves ...no need for name calling! Why should gays stoop to their level?

GSDX.... Why would you direct me to view people of walmart.....That whole sight is there to make fun of all these people who have the right to express themselves. I think you used the phrase ( cause damage to one's sight)....Again the gay society doesn't need to lower themselves to that level....Don't preach to me about my thoughts if you can't do it without name calling and using examples of a web site designed to exploit people.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

Oh those mean flamer gays... they make it SO hard for the poor bisexuals, don't they? How DARE those big fem guys just be themselves in public? Shouldn't they try to shoehorn themselves into that publicly accepted format of only being yourself when no one else is looking?

I mean, honestly... can't they be like those other respectable bi guys like the senators who are only into guys in public washrooms and junk?

 

[G-Lexington]

Thank you for posting. You've asked some questions, and I'll try to answer them.

First off, realize where you're coming from. It's a common spot, especially for guys fresh from the closet (and those still in), and those that don't have much experience interacting with other gay men. The following bullet points might not all apply to you, or apply 100%, but you'll probably at least recognize them.

* I'm not like other gay guys. I'm basically just a straight guy who thinks guys are hot.
* Effeminate gay guys and drag queens are basically "attention whores". They would normally act just as straight as every other guy naturally, but they choose to act femmy.
* Femmy gay guys are a detriment to gay rights. If they didn't act like that, straights wouldn't have any problem with homosexuality.
* Femmy gay guys have "taken over" things like Pride Festivals and gay communities. As such, there's nothing in them for me, because I really don't have anything in common with them.

Thing is, there's some major misconceptions in there.

First off, femmy guys are femmy because they're femmy. That's how they are. They're not kicking their voice up an octave, or swinging their arms around when they talk when they wouldn't otherwise, or liking effeminate things because "that's what I'm supposed to do". They do it because that's how they are. You presumably don't drop your voice down or walk in a "manly" way because "that's how I'm supposed to do it". You do it because it comes naturally.

Decades ago, they used to try to make everybody write with their right hand. If you didn't, they'd force you to. And guess what? It didn't help the lefties at all. Writing just became a chore, as they had to force themselves to not do what came naturally to them. (To this day, my father writes with his left hand, but writes on chalkboards with his right - presumably because "teacher can see".) They don't do that anymore. They put those green "lefty scissors" in with righty ones, and teach lefties how to write without smudging their work. And everybody's happy.

Similarly, femmy guys just are like that. Trying to "act straight" would be as strange to them as acting femmy would be to you. But there's no pressure on "straight-acting gay guys" to act femmy. I'm pretty straight-acting, but nobody ever asked me to fem it up, or put more bounce in my work, or practice my "Ooooh, get HER!" They know this is me, and they accept it.

So why can't some "straight-acting gay guys" accept the femmy ones? A bunch of reasons.

One is fear. The fear that becoming femmy is what happens when you accept your homosexuality. And thus the fear that if you "let yourself go", you'll find yourself gossiping and swinging a purse before you know it. But as you take time to get used to it, and get to know other gay guys, you'll realize it isn't an act, and it's not something that "happens to gay guys".

Another element is (oddly enough) jealousy. We got saddled with the word "gay" rather than "depressed" for a reason. We ARE gay. Being ourselves is liberating, and when we get to be ourselves, we're a lot happier. As such, femmy guys who let themselves BE femmy tend to be happier. Which can piss some people off.

And yes, they're louder. And more noticeable. That doesn't necessarily make them attention whores. Let me give an example.

Say you like some rock band. The Gargoyles. And you'd love to meet other Gargoyles fans. But for whatever reason, the Gargoyles only have one T-shirt. A really ugly bright pink and green mess with the word GARGOYLES scrawled across it. You might think "Well, I'd like to meet more Gargoyles fans, but they all wear such crappy clothes." Well, no. You're probably passing a ton of Gargoyles fans, but the only ones you're noticing are the ones wearing that shirt. And so you think you're somehow distinct from that group.

As for them being a detriment - well, I'll tell you what. I've yet to see any laws against acting camp in the US. No one calling for outlawing guys acting femmy. These straight people don't hate gays because they (or some of they) act femmy. They hate us because we fuck other guys. Femmy guys might give them an easy target, but that's just because (like the Gargoyles fans who bought the T-shirts) they're easier to pick out. Having the femmy guys butch it up won't suddenly make them change their mind.

And I'm not fighting for the rights of straight-acting gays. I'm fighting for the rights of gays, period. Even the femmy ones. Even the drag queens. Even the bitchy attention-whores. They deserve the same rights as us.

Lex

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

[STRIKE]Let´s all pick on the bisexual![/STRIKE]

 

[Swellegant]

You may not have meant to offend anyone, guesshoo, but well... I didn't mean to rear-end that Cadillac last month, but it's back-end is still sitting on the freeway, nevertheless.

So, you're sexually attracted to women, and are also sexually attracted to men. How is that fucked up? I think that's the dictionary definition of "bisexual," so I don't see a problem. I mean, if you were attracted to women and to five-year-old boys, that would be a problem. Or men and harp seals, that would be a difficult combination.

But you don't see much point to the "in between" types. OK, no problem. You'll find yourself in plenty of company here, there are lots of guys who call themselves bisexual and are not attracted to effeminate males. I guess maybe you-all find this odd because an effeminate male should be the best of both worlds, but you find them off-putting.

You'll also find a lot of gay men who wouldn't touch an avowed bisexual with a fork. We all have our funny tastes. Don't worry about it.

However, I must ask you to rethink your position that queens are making everyone else look bad. It's not true, it makes you look stupid, and it pisses me off. And unless you have the credentials of being completely out as a bisexual man and a mover and shaker in the cause of GLBT rights, you really don't have room to talk about what is or isn't good for that cause.

You act how you want, I'll act how I want, and that's called Freedom.

 

[geloge]

So you thought you were fucked up????....lol

It has been a long time since I accepted my sexuality. I use to feel fucked up for other things.

When I say I find men as attractive as women....I do mean men. A man that acts like a man,walks and talks as a man.

Here is the part I just can't get a grip on.....Why do so many gay men try to be so feminine?

When I say try I mean the flamers and Queens. They try to look like women to the point of walking,talking and dressing like women....seems to me as kind of defeating ones own purpose.

I think that most of "femenine" gays aren't trying to look like anything, just they are like they are. Surely you can't say the same about "masculine" kind.

I guess what made me do this post,I was in a department store last night and here was this queen dressed in white tight spandex pants,a very feminine shirt or blouse,heeled shoes makeup the whole nine yards. He also seemed to be trying to draw attention to himself. I was really sad to see this.....

If you don't like seeing someone just don't look at him

As hard as the gay community is working and trying to be accepted , this was not the way to do it.

In the privacy of ones own home or in the company of his own peers I think it's fine.

It's just the wrong image to put out there in the general public and expect them to greet us with open arms.

Hey, was he giving heads in public? What was so scandalous that should be done just in privacy. It reminds me the "I don't care gays as far as they didn't show his life style in public" line. Should we kill all queens for the well-being of gay community? or act like they would be another thing apart of that community? What is the right image? And who decides that?

General public? let's get all generic, we don't like diferences.

But then again what do I know.....? I am double fucked up

Are you doing something to change that? You don't like effeminate guys, I can understand that but there are many other gays out there.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

However, I must ask you to rethink your position that queens are making everyone else look bad. It's not true, it makes you look stupid, and it pisses me off. And unless you have the credentials of being completely out as a bisexual man and a mover and shaker in the cause of GLBT rights, you really don't have room to talk about what is or isn't good for that cause.

You act how you want, I'll act how I want, and that's called Freedom.

Have I told you lately that I love you?

 

[Adrock-JD]

42

"The Answer to the Great Question, of Life, the Universe and Everything"

 

[Blueboy369]

Dude,
Welcome to your first JUB roast! We encourage everyone to be who they are and not to conform to stereotypes. If you're very masculine, that's fine. If you're super fem, that's just as fine too. Don't knock others to make yourself look better. You deserve a spanking but don't take it personal. if you have anything intelligent to say we will eventually come around.

 

[gsdx]

GSDX.... Why would you direct me to view people of walmart.....That whole sight is there to make fun of all these people who have the right to express themselves. I think you used the phrase ( cause damage to one's sight)....Again the gay society doesn't need to lower themselves to that level....Don't preach to me about my thoughts if you can't do it without name calling and using examples of a web site designed to exploit people.

Hey. Take a chill pill. You insulted someone because of the way he dressed and I told you he was just expressing himself, just as all those people in the 'People of Walmart 'site' were expressing themselves.

Hell. You yourself even said they expressing themselves. (I emboldened the text for you.)

Seriously, I have never, ever, been insulted for and accused of saying something when the insulter/accuser agrees with me.

And just where did I do any name-calling? You, on the other hand. . .

When I say try I mean the flamers and Queens. They try to look like women to the point of walking,talking and dressing like women....seems to me as kind of defeating ones own purpose.

I guess what made me do this post,I was in a department store last night and here was this queen dressed in white tight spandex pants,a very feminine shirt or blouse,heeled shoes makeup the whole nine yards. He also seemed to be trying to draw attention to himself.

Are we getting a whole new influx of trolls into this forum or is it the same one just pulling a Sybil?

 

[3nipples]

I was really sad to see this.....As hard as the gay community is working and trying to be accepted , this was not the way to do it.

I don't really understand why a guy would want to act feminine either, but I DO understand that those guys you're criticizing are showing a lot more courage than guys that blend into the straight world and I think they have done a lot more to advance gay rights, so cut them some slack!

 

[NedNickerson]

I think the OP is referring to the "Chris Crocker" types, who portray the stereo-typical gay fem. Judging from some of the comments left in these threads, there are those of us who would agree with him:

http://www.justusboys.com/forum/showthread.php?t=264156

http://www.justusboys.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263591

http://www.justusboys.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255313

 

[Royal Heart]

Hey guys, you know what? You can answer his questions without being complete jackasses yourselves. He posts misunderstandings and his questions and you react by vomiting vitriol all over him?

You realize there's a stereotype of gay men being bitches for a reason, right?

We can (and should) address topics and questions like this without getting ourselves all wound up and acting as though we have personally been assaulted. We're not 12 years old anymore. We're all growed up and can handle these topics with tact and understanding. It's allowed and, shockingly, even encouraged.

guesshoo, you have some legitimate and understandable questions and concerns. At one point in my life I had those same questions and concerns so I really understand where you're coming from.

As it's been pointed out before, in some fashion, effeminate gay men do not act that way out of choice. It's just the way they are. I realize that sounds strange and it's difficult to imagine. I had a hard time wrapping my head around it, too. As you experiences bring new and varied people in and out of your life it may become easier to accept that this is just the way some gay men are and, in time, you may even grow to think they're awesome because of it. I'm not saying you'll suddenly become sexually attracted to the traits they exhibit, I'm saying that you may grow to think that they're cool because they're different from the way you're used to thinking men should act.

I used to think that the flamers were giving the gay community a bad rep but I realized I was completely wrong. They aren't afraid to be themselves in the face of arbitrary social conventions that never really meant anything in the first place. They're not the only ones doing this, of course, gay men don't have monopoly on challenging social norms, but they're contributing whether or not they're aware of it.

You're also going to encounter a lot of anger from gay men when you bring up the topic of masculine and feminine. Most of them will be quick to question what those words even mean and act as though they're completely blind to those concepts, unable to fathom what a "masculine man" is or how a man could be "feminine". It's a bizarre thing to watch, but it will happen. Just be prepared for it. You can't change their opinions, and you shouldn't try. They're very passionate about their gender blindness, and that's cool. I would just let it go. But there are those of us out there who are very much aware that there is a difference between "masculine" and "feminine". It's just as obvious to us as it is to you.

Finally, I think your frustration here may be stemming from the fact that you're (also) attracted to men and so, in your search for finding men who are also attracted to men (for the purposes of friendship, dating or having a little dirty pants) you're finding a lot of men who are very much into guys but who are not the kind of guy you're attracted to. It makes sense. You have an image in your mind of the kind of guy you'd like to meet and you're finding a lot of guys who are in complete opposition to that image.

It's not your fault for having the expectation, it's not their fault for not meeting it. My advice is to seek out other bisexual men. I have observed that most bisexual men tend to exhibit more masculine characteristics than gay men. There are always exceptions, of course. There are gay men who you would swear up and down were totally into boobs and hoo-hoo's but are exclusively into other dudes. They're unfortunately rare, but they do exist. I think, though, that the guy who exhibits the kind of traits you're looking for will most likely be another bisexual guy like yourself.

Cheers!

 

[gsdx]

Hey guys, you know what? You can answer his questions without being complete jackasses yourselves. He posts misunderstandings and his questions and you react by vomiting vitriol all over him?

He posted a question and we responded, then we were attacked and insulted by him simply because we didn't agree with him and even when we did agree with him. He's the one being a complete jackass.

 

[TickTockMan]

[STRIKE]Let´s all pick on the bisexual![/STRIKE]

What he wrote was fairly idiotic. He was asking for it.