Oregon's "Driver's Card" idea -- brilliant, or foolish?

[chrisrobin]

Yes, we should punish both employers and illegals. But without jobs, more will commit crime, and they we will come for welfare and charity as well.

Yes, we should punish both employers and illegals.

Punish everybody. The stocks, the pillory, the dunking stool? Let's waterboard them. (We seem to be experts at that sort of thing.)

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/01/28/us/illinois-immigrant-licenses/index.html

New Illinois law allows undocumented immigrants to get driver's licenses

"Illinois is moving forward," the governor said. "This common sense law will help everybody, regardless of their background, learn the rules of the road, pass a driving test and get insurance. As a result, our roads will be safer, we will create more access to job opportunities, and our economic growth will be strengthened."

Impeach Quinn. F*ck highway safety. F*ck charity, Welfare? It is assumed that all undocumenteds will suck more blood out the federal government. None of them will work. One might be lurking in a woodpile near you. By the way, how can they afford cars? Or will they be riding mules?



We don't need no stinking green cards!

 

[Kulindahr]

They get those jobs now with none of the above and drive illegally.

You'd get more drivers anyway. There are some employers here who are almost certainly using illegals, and if you're along the road at the right time you can see a car or truck with six or eight Hispanics packed in, often with a legal driver.

But I also think a good number won't want the card because it will give a data base for the INS to search if they want.

 

[Kulindahr]

Plus why exactly is this card going to make shit easier? It affects nothing

Fucking employers KNOW they are hiring illegally that's the fucking point for them. You want to stop illegals? PUNISH THE EMPLOYERS!

Not always -- when forged documentation is good enough, employers can't tell. OTOH, one company here a few years back did get warned to start checking who a SS# is supposed to belong to, not just if it's real. Now that they've been warned, they'll face something like a $10k fine per illegal. There have been some pretty good "documentation of live birth" forms forged, too, but the INS explained to a couple of employers that they have to call the state of issue and verify the document number....

You know those employers knew better. I think they were lucky to get off with warnings. OTOH, the INS isn't going to want to destroy a significant local business, so they tend to go easy the first time anyway.

 

[Kulindahr]

BTW where does this law does it say that this card substitutes for any kind of employment authorization? You don't have to be certifed to drive to get a job, and your driver's license is NOT legal certification of a work visa.

It explicitly says it does NOT serve as ID for employment purposes. All it would really do is require people to learn the rules of the road, which if they're driving and not getting caught they know well enough already.

 

[Kulindahr]

^
I guess it does no good pointing this out to Benvolio over and over and over...........
Thick as a granite wall.

Undocumented immigrants don’t pay taxes but still get benefits.
Ask students what are some ways Americans pay taxes, as in income tax and sales tax. Undocumented immigrants pay taxes every time they buy gas, clothes or new appliances. They also contribute to property taxes—a main source of school funding—when they buy or rent a house, or rent an apartment. The Social Security Administration estimates that half to three-quarters of undocumented immigrants pay federal, state and local taxes, including $6 billion to $7 billion in Social Security taxes for benefits they will never get. They can receive schooling and emergency medical care, but not welfare or food stamps.

That SS thing is interesting. Someone at the church down the street got her annual update letter from Social Security showing projected benefits, and if you did the numbers it credited her with working 65 hours a week. Obviously, some illegal had been using her number -- and she got the credit for the work! She actually went to the human services people to get it fixed, and was told they don't bother trying, because untangling such things is more trouble than it's worth.

I actually got a call once about my SS#; someone over in central Oregon had applied for a job using it. Too bad they didn't just ignore it and let me get credit for gobs of work hours!

 

[Kulindahr]

Punish everybody. The stocks, the pillory, the dunking stool? Let's waterboard them. (We seem to be experts at that sort of thing.)

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/01/28/us/illinois-immigrant-licenses/index.html

New Illinois law allows undocumented immigrants to get driver's licenses


Impeach Quinn. F*ck highway safety. F*ck charity, Welfare? It is assumed that all undocumenteds will suck more blood out the federal government. None of them will work. One might be lurking in a woodpile near you. By the way, how can they afford cars? Or will they be riding mules?



We don't need no stinking green cards!

LOL

Both documented and undocumented here pack three times the ordinary number of people into apartments, and work like crazy. I've worked with some legal immigrants from Mexico, and they work like their lives depended on it -- they have to be taught that yes, they get breaks, and lunch, and their employers have to provide for job safety. They do things for nine dollars an hour that anyone but farm kids in the area won't do for less than fifteen or twenty.

 

[borg69unimatrix]

BTW where does this law does it say that this card substitutes for any kind of employment authorization? You don't have to be certifed to drive to get a job, and your driver's license is NOT legal certification of a work visa.

List of acceptable ID on the back of an I-9 Form, where I believe this ID card will slip through the cracks and be accepted:

The documents on List B show identity only. Employees who choose to present a List B document must also present a document from List C for Section 2. Employees may present one of the following unexpired List B documents:

Driver’s license or identification (ID) card issued by a state or outlying possession of the United States, provided it contains a photograph or information such as name, date of birth, gender, height, eye color and address


ID card issued by federal, state or local government agencies or entities, provided it contains a photograph or information such as name, date of birth, gender, height, eye color and address

School ID card with a photograph
Voter’s registration card
U.S.military card or draft record
Military dependent’s ID card
U.S.Coast Guard Merchant Mariners Document (MMD) Card
Native American tribal document
Driver’s license issued by a Canadian government authority

Acceptable List B Documents for persons under age 18 who are unable to present a document listed above:

School record or report card
Clinic, doctor or hospital record
Day-care or nursery school record

For minors under the age of 18 and certain individuals with disabilities who are unable to produce any of the listed identity documents, special notations may be used in place of a List B document.

Last Reviewed/Updated: 07/28/2014

 

[xbuzzerx]

Why? You think that illegals are going to flock to Oregon because they can get counted by authorities there? Or do you think they are coming to the US to drive cars?

That's utterly stupid. Illegals come for jobs, you want to stop them, punish the employers. Driving "cards" have fuck all to do with anything, and I'd bet that a bunch of them would never apply in the first place, they are undocumented for a reason.

That. Someone who thinks a driver's card will affect where immigrants move doesn't understand a thing about why people immigrate.

It would make sense IF this were some backdoor form of legalized residency, which seems to be what many posts here are kneejerking pre-emptively against, but from what's presented I see no reason to believe that's the case.

 

[Benvolio]

Of course illegals are not supposed to get welfare and food stamps, nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Of course illegals are not supposed to get welfare and food stamps, nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

Correct. They can't. By definition.

Someone committing complete fraud complete with fraudulent ID and fraudulent government documents does not have to be an immigrant.

 

[borg69unimatrix]

Of course illegals are not supposed to get welfare and food stamps, nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

Correct. They can't. By definition.

Someone committing complete fraud complete with fraudulent ID and fraudulent government documents does not have to be an immigrant.

Just to throw this out there... Oregon has a "Don't Ask" policy. Granted, Technically illegals aren't supposed to get welfare and food stamps, housing... according to the law... however, they're also not allowed to ask them if they're illegals either.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Just to throw this out there... Oregon has a "Don't Ask" policy. Granted, Technically illegals aren't supposed to get welfare and food stamps, housing... according to the law... however, they're also not allowed to ask them if they're illegals either.

Do you seriously believe any person can just walk into a government office and, with no check on any kind of identification, receive services reserved in law for citizens who meet certain criteria? You think they just "don't check" who this person is, or if they've given them money before, or if they even live in the state? Really?

If it worked remotely like that there's no reason all of us shouldn't be getting welfare and food stamps. Since they don't check anything.

I'm 90% sure you're confusing laws about not being able to pester people on routine traffic stops about their citizenship status (would you be able to verify your citizenship on a typical traffic stop if demanded to?) with what happens when you walk into a government office to apply for forms or services.

 

[borg69unimatrix]

Do you seriously believe any person can just walk into a government office and, with no check on any kind of identification, receive services reserved in law for citizens who meet certain criteria? You think they just "don't check" who this person is, or if they've given them money before, or if they even live in the state? Really?

If it worked remotely like that there's no reason all of us shouldn't be getting welfare and food stamps. Since they don't check anything.

I'm 90% sure you're confusing laws about not being able to pester people on routine traffic stops about their citizenship status (would you be able to verify your citizenship on a typical traffic stop if demanded to?) with what happens when you walk into a government office to apply for forms or services.

https://apps.state.or.us/Forms/Served/de0415f.pdf

Checking ID falls into the "the best of your abilities" to guestimate if they're authentic or not.

 

[bankside]

That SS thing is interesting. Someone at the church down the street got her annual update letter from Social Security showing projected benefits, and if you did the numbers it credited her with working 65 hours a week. Obviously, some illegal had been using her number -- and she got the credit for the work! She actually went to the human services people to get it fixed, and was told they don't bother trying, because untangling such things is more trouble than it's worth.

I actually got a call once about my SS#; someone over in central Oregon had applied for a job using it. Too bad they didn't just ignore it and let me get credit for gobs of work hours!

I have to tell you if it were Canada, it would be investigated, and the most likely explanation would be clerical error that would get fixed so the records are accurate

If a government official is uninterested in fixing something like that, it makes me wonder whether they had a role in deliberately scamming the number.

 

[vulgar_newcomer]

That SS thing is interesting. Someone at the church down the street got her annual update letter from Social Security showing projected benefits, and if you did the numbers it credited her with working 65 hours a week. Obviously, some illegal had been using her number -- and she got the credit for the work! She actually went to the human services people to get it fixed, and was told they don't bother trying, because untangling such things is more trouble than it's worth.

I actually got a call once about my SS#; someone over in central Oregon had applied for a job using it. Too bad they didn't just ignore it and let me get credit for gobs of work hours!

Well you tell the lady you know at the Church she better force the issue. Because if the mixup is discovered even a few yrs after payments begin and SSA proves she was credited by miskake to much money regardless of fault she will be made to repay it, all of it. It will be deducted from her future payments until it is met. Not only that but a reduction in monthly benefit for the correct hours will apply. This could leave someone on a fixed income with not only a bill but a smaller amount which would be even tougher to live on when they expected a certain amount from SS.

A internal snafu on projected benefits of over hours doesn't mean it was a illegal using her card.

 

[xbuzzerx]

https://apps.state.or.us/Forms/Served/de0415f.pdf

Checking ID falls into the "the best of your abilities" to guestimate if they're authentic or not.

What do I need to bring to the interview?
You may need to bring:
1.Your identification;
2. Proof of your income;
3. Social Security numbers for everyone in your household who wants benefits; and
4. Proof of your legal immigration status for those persons who want benefits.

The "may" fairly obviously referring to "as relevant to the specific service and the laws about who is eligible", rather than "it's optional to bring in any ID at all."

 

[Benvolio]

What do I need to bring to the interview?
You may need to bring:
1.Your identification;
2. Proof of your income;
3. Social Security numbers for everyone in your household who wants benefits; and
4. Proof of your legal immigration status for those persons who want benefits.

The "may" fairly obviously referring to "as relevant to the specific service and the laws about who is eligible", rather than "it's optional to bring in any ID at all."

What?. We have been repeatedly assured that no poor people have IDs, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, and that attempts to ask voters for IDs is voter supression.

 

[Kulindahr]

Just to throw this out there... Oregon has a "Don't Ask" policy. Granted, Technically illegals aren't supposed to get welfare and food stamps, housing... according to the law... however, they're also not allowed to ask them if they're illegals either.

Okay, but when I went to the human services office to check on how food stamps work, they required a valid photo ID and a valid SS#. They don't ask if you're an illegal, but those sort of weed them out.

 

[Kulindahr]

What do I need to bring to the interview?
You may need to bring:
1.Your identification;
2. Proof of your income;
3. Social Security numbers for everyone in your household who wants benefits; and
4. Proof of your legal immigration status for those persons who want benefits.

The "may" fairly obviously referring to "as relevant to the specific service and the laws about who is eligible", rather than "it's optional to bring in any ID at all."

That's how it seems to work at the office. The interesting thing is that if you're an illegal but have a child born here, you can get benefits for the kid:

If you are applying for someone else and not for yourself, we do not need your SSN or citizenship status. People who are not U.S. citizens may still qualify for certain benefits. If you do not have an SSN yourself, other family members who do have SSNs may still qualify.

 

[opinterph]

Both documented and undocumented here pack three times the ordinary number of people into apartments

According to an article published by USA Today [SUP][August 2013][/SUP], 27 percent of households are occupied by a single person.