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Osama Bin Laden killed!

JB3 said:
I hope Clinton gave Musharraf a nice dressing down today after he released his ridiculous comments about 'violated sovereignty'. If Pakistan wasn't an 'ally', (those quotes are well-deserved) they would have already been declared a state that supports terrorism.

How they're reacting tells us all we need to know about their complicity in hiding him. Someone in Pakistan's government knew, and they chose to protect him. While pragmatism has its place, I think the time for that has passed. The president, and SoS, need to tell Pakistan, in no uncertain terms, that they will not tolerate any intransigence when it comes to stopping terrorism.
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Did you see Cooper catch Musharaf in flat-out lies about his actions and statements on this in the past? Specifically that Musharaf denied that Osama was ever in Pakistan?

Of course we have to remember that in that society Musharaf is not necessarily responsible for hiding Osama there -- the factionalism and plotting approaches Byzantine levels, and tribal loyalties still trump any notion of nationhood. As I said before, I wouldn't be surprised if some of out info came from a faction unhappy at the faction hiding bin Laden.
 
Nah Chance borrow away. And no I dont tell war stories or deployment stories in the bars. I usually just stare with my tongue hanging out....lol. Ask Preston how smooth a charmer I am (NOT) when the epitome of sex is serving me a beer. I am tired of that game anyways. the good ones you dont find in bars.


Toriko i get the feeling that India and the US are quite close but India is shrewd and plays all over the field so as to garner the support and respect of many other countries. That is for a variety of reasons. India wants to be extremely wary of putting themselves in a shitty position between us and China. And I dont blame them.


All that is very far from the topic as I remember earlier the point being made that this is an on topic discussion.

So more to the point. I understand the military is the most revered public service and has been forever. It is amazing to see the regurgitation of I love them on the nightly sound bites. Our news services certainly can beat a story to death.
 
watching a replay of bill o'reilly

telling the "how it happened" story

amazing

Has tape of Musharif complaining .......... yech

O'Reilly called him a phony

$3.4B to Pakistan in 2010 - yikes

has Hillary saying "Pakistan cooperated" - OMG

why would she say that?

Bill says there's a "muslim problem"

responsible muslims should be congratulating pres. obama on the action

"great day for america"

Bill O says we need to stop sending money to pakistan who harbors terrorists

says al qaeda has been downgraded severely

stay strong stay smart war requires great sacrifice

spot on
 
Kulindahr said:
Did you see Cooper catch Musharaf in flat-out lies about his actions and statements on this in the past? Specifically that Musharaf denied that Osama was ever in Pakistan?

Of course we have to remember that in that society Musharaf is not necessarily responsible for hiding Osama there -- the factionalism and plotting approaches Byzantine levels, and tribal loyalties still trump any notion of nationhood. As I said before, I wouldn't be surprised if some of out info came from a faction unhappy at the faction hiding bin Laden.
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And the fact that the civilian government doesn't really wield power. And that there are rogue elements in the Pakistani army, it is doubtful that any Pakistani PM really knows what's going on.
 
chance1 said:
watching a replay of bill o'reilly

telling the "how it happened" story

amazing

Has tape of Musharif complaining .......... yech

O'Reilly called him a phony

$3.4B to Pakistan in 2010 - yikes

has Hillary saying "Pakistan cooperated" - OMG

why would she say that?

Bill says there's a "muslim problem"

responsible muslims should be congratulating pres. obama on the action

"great day for america"

Bill O says we need to stop sending money to pakistan who harbors terrorists

says al qaeda has been downgraded severely

stay strong stay smart war requires great sacrifice

spot on
Click to expand...

Here, anyway, responsible Muslims have been celebrating and congratulating Obama. They were even complimentary about the efforts to comply with Islamic burial practices -- one complaint was that there was no way to know if Osama landed with his head toward Mecca.

O'Reilly isn't quite spot on: as long as we give Pakistan money, they at least make a serious effort to kill off SOME terrorists (probably the ones who aren't able to pay big enough bribes).

I'd disagree that Al Qaeda has been "downgraded severely". There are two energetic branches, one of the Arabian peninsula, which were practically independent of Osama already. Maybe the organization will split now, into the two well-organized branches and the loosely-related smaller groups spread about. That has both good and bad aspects: good because it degrades their ability to do large coordinated activities, bad because we'll now be tracking three entities instead of one (or a score of entities, if the loosely affiliated groups totally drift independent).
 
I just watched AC explain that the beginning to end of this operation took four years. The beginning was a detainee at GTMO giving up Osama's most trusted courier's nickname. The break then came two years ago when the Courier contacted a person already under surveillance. The thing they seem amazed about is the level of secrecy in our government that allowed it to happen and not become a casualty. I have to admit i am pretty astounded myself. I had thought secrecy outside of the military was a thing of the past.
 
mazda3boi said:
I just watched AC explain that the beginning to end of this operation took four years. The beginning was a detainee at GTMO giving up Osama's most trusted courier's nickname. The break then came two years ago when the Courier contacted a person already under surveillance. The thing they seem amazed about is the level of secrecy in our government that allowed it to happen and not become a casualty. I have to admit i am pretty astounded myself. I had thought secrecy outside of the military was a thing of the past.
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What is astonishing to me about this operation is that they were following countless approaches to the same target, probably in teams, and this is the one that paid off.
 
Kulindahr said:
I'd disagree that Al Qaeda has been "downgraded severely". There are two energetic branches, one of the Arabian peninsula, which were practically independent of Osama already. Maybe the organization will split now, into the two well-organized branches and the loosely-related smaller groups spread about. That has both good and bad aspects: good because it degrades their ability to do large coordinated activities, bad because we'll now be tracking three entities instead of one (or a score of entities, if the loosely affiliated groups totally drift independent).
Click to expand...

I have to disagree. We are already tracking hundreds of organizations. None have the notoriety but as Timothy McVey so horribly demonstrated it only takes one action to reap horrible death and sorrow.
 
The report that a replica of OBL's compound was built for the Navy Seals to train in. Just, wow...
 
mazda3boi said:
The most far reaching idea in that article is that the youth are turning away from both OBL and militant islamist ideology.

That is the only thing that will change that region of earth.
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And maybe Israel sincerely and unequivocally embracing the peace efforts.
 
NineOfClubs said:
The report that a replica of OBL's compound was built for the Navy Seals to train in. Just, wow...
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That's standard practice for really critical operations where you use the minimum amount of force necessary so no mistakes can be allowed; some were done that way in WWII. I briefly knew a guy who did special ops, and he talked of having to learn some operations so well that they could navigate in the target buildings blindfolded -- or with smoke filling everything. He was amazed that for one op the intelligence folks even knew where the electrical panel and such things were!

And once one team somehow sabotaged the sewer lines to drain them -- the pipes were big enough to go in through. He led that, through mucky shit, and at one point said he stabbed something alive, and still doesn't know what it was -- he couldn't slow down to find out, because there was a schedule to keep.

They train until the locations of things they'll have to deal with are pretty much in muscle memory, so they can move without thinking about that part and focus on the things that can't be predicted, like where they'll run into people.
 
mazda3boi said:
The most far reaching idea in that article is that the youth are turning away from both OBL and militant islamist ideology.

That is the only thing that will change that region of earth.
Click to expand...

And embracing pacifism, unless they really have to fight as in Libya.

If the Palestinians had embraced pacifism in the 70s, Israel might be no more.
 
Lostlover said:
And maybe Israel sincerely and unequivocally embracing the peace efforts.
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Yeah... sure... like that's ever gonna happen... hilarious.gif

Nm.XXXIII, 51-55

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye are passed over Jordan into the land of Canaan;


Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:


And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land, and dwell therein: for I have given you the land to possess it.


And ye shall divide the land by lot for an inheritance among your families: and to the more ye shall give the more inheritance, and to the fewer ye shall give the less inheritance: every man's inheritance shall be in the place where his lot falleth; according to the tribes of your fathers ye shall inherit.


But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.
 
belamo said:
Yeah... sure... like that's ever gonna happen... View attachment 555427

Nm.XXXIII, 51-55

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye are passed over Jordan into the land of Canaan;


Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:


And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land, and dwell therein: for I have given you the land to possess it.


And ye shall divide the land by lot for an inheritance among your families: and to the more ye shall give the more inheritance, and to the fewer ye shall give the less inheritance: every man's inheritance shall be in the place where his lot falleth; according to the tribes of your fathers ye shall inherit.


But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.
Click to expand...

And?

That was marching orders for 3500 years ago (or more).

They don't have any instructions recently.


But I mean Ghandi-like pacifism: passive resistance. Not wimpy "We don't want to be involved, maybe the world will go away" passifism.
 
Kulindahr said:
And?

That was marching orders for 3500 years ago (or more).

They don't have any instructions recently.
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Sure, neither have the Haredim and Phelps and all the wacky god-hate-faggers of their lot: that's why they keep believing in the old instructions because that's how religion is supposed to work: don't ask, don't think, just yield and obey.
Kulindahr said:
But I mean Ghandi-like pacifism: passive resistance. Not wimpy "We don't want to be involved, maybe the world will go away" passifism.
Click to expand...
Right, just let's sit down and spin.
For Fuck's sake, even peaceful and world-renonucing Buddhist monkies can not stick to their own beliefs and resist the temptation to shout out loud and burn themselves in political action, how do you expect the average beer-drinking, sport-watching Joe to follow that wise plan.
 
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