Outgoing gay flatmate

[Just_Believe18]

We've all had sexual experiences with guys that left us regretful and realizing it wasn't the best idea after all. It sounds like this is how he feels about you. He found you attractive at the time and was horny. Now that he's had you, the curiosity isn't there anymore. He thinks about the awkward moments he's shared with you, and realizes the two of you are on different levels emotionally and sexually. He doesn't want to be around you, and your text messages saying you miss him and want him only make him feel more uncomfortable and wanting to avoid you.

Is he a bad person? I don't think so. I think he's made a mistake, and he's not sure how to maturely handle it with you. You saw him more of something than he saw you and realizes that now.

Imagine being in his shoes. Are there guys you could have sex with and then imagine wanting to avoid afterwards because you realize it was a mistake? Does that make you a bad person? No.

The solution is we must be mature about who we have as our sexual partners. Take your time, talk it over. Don't jump into anything until you know the feelings are mutual and that there won't be any awkwardness after all the ejaculations are done.

This is why hook-ups tend to be a one time thing.

 

[crubbed]

I apologize for being rude. The thing is I played it fair this time. And those comments hit a nerve because everytime I had to take a decision regarding Alex, I asked myself 'What would the guys at JUB tell me?'. Really. And if you tell me...

you didn't take a realistic view of things. You held on to a determination to make something out of this and make more of it than it probably was.

...you are completely wrong, and it upsets me. I did not need any reality check. When he texted me this past Christmas, I knew it meant nothing. But jeez,,, having sex? and for my first time? That must mean something.

Yesterday night I took action. I did not want to mope around [I haven't eaten in 3 days]. And even this time, I thought about what rareboy would have told me and it would have been 'move on, find another guy, it's that simple'. Right?

So I went to the local gay disco, and guess what. I made out with one guy [Rafael] who was very hot and he liked me a lot too. I told him I was on the rebound, I was very upfront about it. And he was on the rebound too. We exchanged number before he left. He seemed very caring and sweet. He wants to see me again.

Once he left, another guy [Stevie] sat next to me on the sofa. I said what the fuck, and I approached him. We ended up hugging each other and dancing, we did not kiss. I was honest about my situation with him too. I think he kinda fell for me, 'cause I'm the gentle type. He wants to see me again, but I'm not sure I like him as a lover. Anyway I'm in desperate need for friends, so he'll be a welcome addition.

These guys made me forget Alex for a night [sorta kinda]. Now I've woken up and I'm not sure about how I feel. When I read your comments about him probably using me it hurt like hell. I think I'm still waiting for a message for him, but I won't burst out crying if he's still cold...

I apologize again for being rude, I appreciate your comments a lot and they've helped me grow through the years (even thou noone would tell LOL).

 

[KaraBulut]

Well, I'm glad that you are moving on. This whole thing is a learning process and it is not easy to find that halfway point between letting guys know that you're interested without being overbearing or smothering.

When we say "move on", we mean to get a normal social life where you have friends that you can talk to and bounce things off of. And that you go out and date, have fun, get to know people, talk, laugh and in some cases, have a hot time in bed with a few of them.

So, while most people have been out to the club, had a few drinks and had a good time with the boys there when they needed a lift... keep in mind that it's more important to have friends to hang out with and it's important to date and get to know people before getting emotionally involved.

And a lesson that everyone has to learn: you'll find lots of fun and interesting things in a guy's pants but you'll never find your self-esteem there.

 

[TX-Beau]

I apologize for being rude. The thing is I played it fair this time. And those comments hit a nerve because everytime I had to take a decision regarding Alex, I asked myself 'What would the guys at JUB tell me?'. Really. And if you tell me...

...you are completely wrong, and it upsets me. I did not need any reality check. When he texted me this past Christmas, I KNEW IT MEANT NOTHING. But jeez,,, having sex? and for my first time? THAT MUST MEAN SOMETHING.

Emphasis and all caps mine.

OK. Why must the first time "mean something?" In the movies and on TV the first time is some kind of transcendental, euphoric thing that's fraught with consequence. But those are fairy tales - and in the fairy tale no one ever has to do the work.

There are a whole lot of first times that are awkward, and fumbling, there are first times that people regret - for one reason or another. The first time only means what you think it does. There are guys who just want to get rid of their virginity. The first time has no intrinsic magic.

You thought it should mean something; he didn't share your expectation. That's not him using you. I agree with the poster above who said he probably didn't think through the consequences of sleeping with you - and you'll find this a lot; guys are generally opportunistic when it comes to sex. You present the opportunities, a lot of guys - especially young guys - are gonna avail themselves of that opportunity.

That's him, now what about you, he didn't rape you, you wanted your first time to mean something, but did you think that through? Did you make sure that you had a first time with someone who you'd dated for awhile; who you knew loved you, who you were sure of? You have all these feelings pent up inside of you that you’ve never expressed before. That’s perfectly natural. But you need to learn how to balance what you feel with what you see. This guy wasn’t a good choice if you wanted that transcendental first time, the clues were all there.

Now you're mad and bitter because it didn't mean to him what you wanted it to, and you didn't get the fairytale you think it should've been. Your untenable expectations were disappointed - which is pretty much what we've all been saying. Well, it's done, repining now doesn't help anything.

This is why you need gay friends, to help keep you on an even keel, and at a realistic expectation level, and it's a positive step that you're out looking for some.

Look, we all know this is hard for you, it's never fun to feel used, but at least learn from this the positive lesson that baby steps lead to a relationship. Hook-ups are fun, but are not the fairy tale, and the fairy tale is not reality. Reality is moments of fairy tale, and a lot of work and communication and trust and compromise.

Lesson two – it’s extremely rare to win the lottery when you’ve only bought one ticket. You’re gonna date a whole lot of guys probably before you find one you’re in synch with, to the point of you both wanting the same thing, at the same time.

Plus I’m gonna add, you’re young, why not play around a bit before you settle down? I’m a firm believer in playing the field; it gains you experience, and confidence, and exposes you to a lot of guys. That helps you refine what your expectations should be, and what your requirements are.

The better you know yourself, the more likely you are to choose the right guy, and the easier it is to avoid choosing a guy just for the sake of choosing a guy. In the fairy tale all the frogs are princes, in reality there are a lot of frogs that are just frogs. If all you ever focus on is just wanting a fairy tale, you won’t pay attention to the guy you’re dating, won’t evaluate him in terms of whether or not this actual guy is even a good prospect, or just a frog.

More general advice, work on yourself, make yourself the guy you want to date, make yourself the best prospect you can, and along the way, you’ll attract a better caliber of guy, who’ll want to stick around.

 

[spencer]

bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. You guys should be ashamed of yourself. He did a lot of what you guys suggested, he manned up and came out to a guy. Thread after thread on here you guys tell someone to do that and they NEVER do it. He did and he actually got to sleep with his fantasy because of it. Now you turn around and force him to apologize.

There's the thing. They had a history. Not a dating history, not a sexual history, but they were friends. There wasn't a moment of weakness. This wasn't an awkward blind date. This wasn't a situation where you were horny all of a sudden (Alex didn't know he was gay and he was still fantasizing about him)

Crub, don't apologize.

You guys rationalize that it's proper behavior to blow someone off after engaging in sex with them? You rationalize it cause you would do it yourself and that's straight up wrong. When I sleep with someone and regret it later, I tell them that it's not going to work out that I had a moment of weakness.

If you can take on the responsibility of sharing your bodily fluids you can take on the responsibility of doing the adult thing.

He should have given you closure.

He may be thinking you are not a perfect match and doesn't want to hurt your feelings. It isn't that he used you for sex, but honestly, you sound so anxious and nervous that maybe he was put off.

Wrong. Alex knows how anxious he is. He was the one to tell him to calm down. And even he was nervous that Alex had to initiate intimacy.

It takes time to engage on that level, time for him to decide he wants to engage you that way.

You were acquaintances, then you talked a bit, but you never dated, and then you went straight to undying love the first chance you got.

Yes, he told Alex he had a huge crush and him and that didn't scare him away. In fact, that brought the idea into his head that they could hook up. Alex knew about his interest level. He was honest with him off the bat. And again he was nervous that Alex had to initiate intimacy.

Well you can get mad at me too, but that doesn't solve anything either, and if you want to get mad at him - so be it. Plus, no one in here is assigning blame. Why would we? This only matters to you - all we are is voices and advice.

All of this however doesn't change anything, and it's quite possible to communicate without saying anything.

He's a 19 year old kid who doesn't know much about anything yet, you're not much older. He's the only outlet you have for all of your feelings - which probably is why you over-committed.

You got your feelings hurt, and got rejected. Such is life. We've all been with the commitment shy guy, the guy who just wants a fuck, the guy who'll lie to get a fuck, the guy who hasn't got his own shit figured out yet, and on and on.

You know what, we all ended up with your choices. So what are you going to do?

You want to know how to get him? Well, no one in here can change his mind - and he never told you he wanted to date you, you should listen to what guys tell you - or don't tell you; and you should listen to how guys behave. If he was that into you, you'd have gotten a lot more from the beginning.

So what are you going to do? You can spend your time from here on out - mad, angsty, and frustrated - thinking that fault on either side is somehow relevant and helpful, or you can do something.

Welcome to being an adult.

That doesn't make it right and that doesn't mean we condone this behavior. Maybe if we told people one here the right we to do things, people wouldn't do this to other people. You guys are hard on the wrong person here.

Advice is given in these forums. You're never under any obligation to take the advice. But the people who are offering it here are sincere and they are a lot more experienced in these things.

This is not going well for you. It's not going to end well.

Yes you have feelings but you're taking them out on the very people who are trying to help you. And you're still not listening to what you're being told.

Don't lash out at the people who are here to help. Listen. Ask questions. Take advantage of their wisdom. They have more experience in these things that you.

Kara, it's our wisdom that helped him come out to Alex and it worked. Alex didn't do what he was supposed to do. He could even at least gave closure in the form of a text. Alex is a coward.

We've all had sexual experiences with guys that left us regretful and realizing it wasn't the best idea after all. It sounds like this is how he feels about you. He found you attractive at the time and was horny. Now that he's had you, the curiosity isn't there anymore. He thinks about the awkward moments he's shared with you, and realizes the two of you are on different levels emotionally and sexually. He doesn't want to be around you, and your text messages saying you miss him and want him only make him feel more uncomfortable and wanting to avoid you.

Is he a bad person? I don't think so. I think he's made a mistake, and he's not sure how to maturely handle it with you. You saw him more of something than he saw you and realizes that now.

Imagine being in his shoes. Are there guys you could have sex with and then imagine wanting to avoid afterwards because you realize it was a mistake? Does that make you a bad person? No.

The solution is we must be mature about who we have as our sexual partners. Take your time, talk it over. Don't jump into anything until you know the feelings are mutual and that there won't be any awkwardness after all the ejaculations are done.

This is why hook-ups tend to be a one time thing.

This can be construed as both a hook up and not. Like I said earlier, they have history. They both knew what they were getting into. They both had responsibility.

Crub is taking his responsibility (since you guys ever so poignantly remind him of it) like an adult. And Alex has failed (so far) at taking his responsibility for his actions. Yet it still sounds like you side with Crubs lack of preparation or lack of taking it over Alex's poor decision to think with his dick then chicken out then walk away without so much a word.

And so now I ask, how my friends is that good advice?

Crubs you're doing the right thing by moving. You were there for this guy, you laid your cards out on the table (as per our advice) and in a way it worked out (you made yourself vulnerable so that the possibility) of it working existed. With doing so, he wouldn't have even known you were gay which would have meant there was zero possibility.

Don't let it get you down but be a testament that putting yourself out there (you will get hurt) will give you the best chances of finding your soul mate.

Also realize that the more you do this, the less traumatic it will be and the less nervous you will be. And you can work on the obsessive part too.

Good luck

 

[Just_Believe18]

Don't lump me into everyone else, spencer. I was giving perspective to Alex's side. Yes, it's a lame thing to ignore Crub; however, if this is the reality of the situation, it's best Crub knows the truth and moves on (which he has for the most part). It's good he went out to meet new guys. I hope some of his new contacts turn out to work better.

 

[KaraBulut]

bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. You guys should be ashamed of yourself. He did a lot of what you guys suggested, he manned up and came out to a guy. Thread after thread on here you guys tell someone to do that and they NEVER do it. He did and he actually got to sleep with his fantasy because of it. Now you turn around and force him to apologize.

You guys rationalize that it's proper behavior to blow someone off after engaging in sex with them? You rationalize it cause you would do it yourself and that's straight up wrong. When I sleep with someone and regret it later, I tell them that it's not going to work out that I had a moment of weakness.

In a different circumstance it might have worked out. But it's very common with young guys- gay, straight or otherwise- to get worked up emotionally and sexually and then have post-orgasmic remorse.

It does very little good to blame anyone- the dumper or the dumpee- for it. It's part of the learning process of making better choices. And fortunately, it seems to happen less once guys get out of that period in their late teens and early twenties where they are willing to stomp all over other people's feelings to get laid.

But nothing wagered, nothing gained. It was the right thing to talk to the guy and to come out to him.

 

[TX-Beau]

bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. You guys should be ashamed of yourself. He did a lot of what you guys suggested, he manned up and came out to a guy. Thread after thread on here you guys tell someone to do that and they NEVER do it. He did and he actually got to sleep with his fantasy because of it. Now you turn around and force him to apologize.

There's the thing. They had a history. Not a dating history, not a sexual history, but they were friends. There wasn't a moment of weakness. This wasn't an awkward blind date. This wasn't a situation where you were horny all of a sudden (Alex didn't know he was gay and he was still fantasizing about him)

Crub, don't apologize.

You guys rationalize that it's proper behavior to blow someone off after engaging in sex with them? You rationalize it cause you would do it yourself and that's straight up wrong. When I sleep with someone and regret it later, I tell them that it's not going to work out that I had a moment of weakness.

If you can take on the responsibility of sharing your bodily fluids you can take on the responsibility of doing the adult thing.

He should have given you closure.



Wrong. Alex knows how anxious he is. He was the one to tell him to calm down. And even he was nervous that Alex had to initiate intimacy.



Yes, he told Alex he had a huge crush and him and that didn't scare him away. In fact, that brought the idea into his head that they could hook up. Alex knew about his interest level. He was honest with him off the bat. And again he was nervous that Alex had to initiate intimacy.



That doesn't make it right and that doesn't mean we condone this behavior. Maybe if we told people one here the right we to do things, people wouldn't do this to other people. You guys are hard on the wrong person here.




Kara, it's our wisdom that helped him come out to Alex and it worked. Alex didn't do what he was supposed to do. He could even at least gave closure in the form of a text. Alex is a coward.



This can be construed as both a hook up and not. Like I said earlier, they have history. They both knew what they were getting into. They both had responsibility.

Crub is taking his responsibility (since you guys ever so poignantly remind him of it) like an adult. And Alex has failed (so far) at taking his responsibility for his actions. Yet it still sounds like you side with Crubs lack of preparation or lack of taking it over Alex's poor decision to think with his dick then chicken out then walk away without so much a word.

Oh please. No one is forcing him to do anything, let alone apologize, that came out of YOUR head. And if we're not talking about the other guy - why would that be, he's not here, we don't know what he has to say for himself, and his motivations are completely irrelevant. All we have is one point of view on a situation. Who knows what the other one is, the OP doesn't know why the other guy left. Could be a thousand things. But even if the other guy was as venal as possible, what does laying blame get us?

What point is there in blaming people? Are we children? Will blaming people solve anything? You don't know if the other guys is an asshole, I don't know if the other guy is an asshole, calling him names is useless.

The only person we are concerned about is the guy asking for advice. He can't do anything about the other guy, he can look at what his actions were and learn from that - something that won't happen if all we do is post a thousand and one posts on how evil the other guy is, it would be pointless to try blaming anyone, so why do you think it's helpful to focus on the other guy?

If all you got from what we said was that it's so horrible that no one blamed the other guy, or in your mind we were laying blame on the OP, then I empathize, but you're out in left field.

Or maybe this touched a nerve with YOU.

 

[crubbed]

Spencer, thank you for, like, standing up for me. No offense to the other posters, but I can feel you really understood my perspective here. I was determined to do it right and not engage in self-destructive behaviours. That being said I realize (as TX-Beau said) that you guys only know my point of view and you can only give advice to me, and I really appreciate that you take the time to do it. I mean it.

So, yesterday I texted Alex. I asked him if he was available in the night. He replied: 'I'm not home right now.. I'll spend the night somewhere else...sorry'.

So I texted him again. 'I don't understand what's going on. I feel like I've been used and then thrown away. I want an explanation, and I think I deserve it.'.

He replied with a long message. 'I'm really sorry. after making love to you I realized I had made a mistake, that I did not feel anything big.. what you feel for me is different from what I feel for you.. i'm sorry, i didn't mean to use you.. i didn't do it for the sex.. i did not believe it could happen that night, it was not programmed.. I let myself get carried away...'.

I was devastated.

And I replied. 'Bullshit. You manipulated my feelings by texting me so much at Christmas time. I told you you were my first and you didn't think twice about it. I knew you did not love me, but that doesn't mean you can avoid me as if I was stupid...there are things you should have the balls to tell a person in the eye. I thought you were the sweetest guy ever, but now you make me want to barf. I hope you're satisfied, you broke the heart of a guy who loved you for the whole time and unfortunately still does. Go to hell'.

I hope that my text meant something to him. Had I received something like that, it would have ruined my whole day. Especially knowing it was all true.

You know what? I don't care about 'my first time'. After all I benefited from the whole thing because now I'm not afraid of kissing a guy or being intimate with him. What really irks me is that he had not got the balls to tell me truth. He let me pine after him for 5 days. I texted him. I told him I missed him. And for the whole time he knew I was living in a dream. When was he planning to break the news to me? Who does he think he is? That really really hurt me.

So, yesterday I was in a lot of pain. And I called Rafael, the guy I met at the disco. I told him I needed a hug and he agreed very happily to come over to my place. I explained the situation to him and I was very honest about me kinda using him not to feel lonely. He told me he was in the same place with his life.

So, we watched a movie [which we later found out that was our favorite] while he hugged me. We cuddled a lot. He kissed me repeatedly. The guy can't take his mouth off of me. And you know what? It's a nice change. I do not love him, I don't even know him. But I like that he likes me. He looks good and personality-wise he seems a nice guy. For a change he listens to what I say and laughs at my jokes. He doesn't treat me as if I came from another planet. He likes that my room is a mess, and he doesn't mind that I throw the clothes on the floor if I don't want to fold them.

At the beginning I had told him I did not want sex, but come midnight I changed my mind and he was happy about it. It was just sex. But ironically it was the first time I felt loved. Plus, he has such a hot body, which is always good.

We slept in each other's arms in my small bed. He kept holding me for the whole night. And I felt very good about it.

I told him that I don't want him to fall in love with me, and I want to keep things simple. I told him I would go back to the disco this week, 'cause I need to make new experiences and he was fine with it. He even recommended a new disco for thursday night.

He told me I'm super-sweet, and that I am a puppy, a doll, even though I look strong on the outside, but it's just a facade.

Obviously we used protection. But I did not like anal sex very much this time (I bottomed, again). I probably should have used more lube. But at least I was able to come twice by jerking off (the top of my penis was still too sensitive). When I woke up my asshole hurt a little, and I noticed a little lump (? I don't know how to call it), which is the same thing I felt that Rafael has on his butthole. He told me it's just skin that has been pulled back from the anus and will come back in in a matter of days, because his cock was too big (7 inches). I don't know about this, I was worried it was an STD (although we did use a condom and I checked it, it was intact). I'll have to check the threads in the Wellbeing area.

So, I guess that after 5 months my history with Alex is officially done, finally. I'm sorry I wasted SO MUCH TIME and ENERGIES on a guy like this. Right now I despise him and I would love to lash out at him in his face. When I woke up this morning I felt empty, and everything that happened came back at me. Last week I was taking a plane at this time, ready to come back to town to watch a movie with him. He was ill and he kept texting me wanting to know if I was angry because we postponed. Geez. how things change...

 

[rareboy]

Spencer,

Get some perspective on this.

Crub wants to understand why the guy drifted him.

One reason may be that if Crub was anxious and not looking like he was having a good time, it may have been a deal breaker.

Don't piss all over everyone here because you don't agree with the advice given.

If Crub is looking only for validation, then I guess he can go to you. If he's looking for some perspective on the issue, the rest of us will have to do.

The reply from Alex was reasoned and polite. The response he got back from the OP was from a 14 year old with some real behavioural issues to work out. The most recent post is just a maelstrom of anxiety about sex and intimacy.

I suggested some serious counselling time. partly based on this poster's previous history.

I stand by that recommendation.

 

[crubbed]

The reply from Alex was reasoned and polite. The response he got back from the OP was from a 14 year old with some real behavioural issues to work out.

You see, it's this kind of self-righteous, higher-than-thou attitude that drives me crazy.

What was I supposed to tell him? 'Oh, yeah, I kinda figured it out. Well, thank you for letting me know anyway! See ya!'.

Yeah, Alex was very reasoned and polite when he fucked me and then left me alone without ever contacting me. rareboy, in your perfect world people shouldn't have feelings and shouldn't react on them. That's not how it is. People over-react sometimes, and they can be passionate about things. You sound like a freaking robot.

Oh, and about me looking anxious and like I was not having a good time --- that's another example of you sentencing people. You decided it all went down like that, huh? Well, I've news for you, I was not anxious at all, I kept my preoccupations for myself and I looked like I was on 7th heaven. I already told you that but you do not believe me. You prefer your scenario because it fits with the idea you have of me.

 

[KaraBulut]

What happened with Alex is the same thing that is happening in this thread- the need to settle things the way that you want and to get the last word.

Sometimes you just have to walk away before you get hurt more.

It may take a few more times to learn that lesson... some people never learn it.

Closure on these issues will never come by just venting emotions. A lot of times, people believe that "getting it all out" will make them feel better- and maybe it does temporarily- but it seldom solves anything.

Really, peace comes from letting it go and walking away.

And the same could be said of this thread.

 

[danniflava]

Instead of focusing on giving him gifts when he leaves, do something clearer- tell him you are glad to have met him, you're sorry that you didn't have more time to get to know each other better and give him your contact information.

If you can say that with a straight face, that's a STONE WINNER sentence!

 

[crubbed]

What happened with Alex is the same thing that is happening in this thread- the need to settle things the way that you want and to get the last word.

Really, peace comes from letting it go and walking away.

And the same could be said of this thread.

You have a point here. To me this situation's a little frustrating because for once I was trying to do the right thing. I did not stay at home, crying over myself. I went out and met people and tried to move on. I was told:

And you're still not listening to what you're being told.

Is there any way you can just relax with a guy? Just have some fun and laugh?

I thought about it, and I did it, I found a guy (Rafael), had some fun with him and laughed, but still I was adviced to go to counselling (which I agree I need, but still... I feel I've done so many steps ahead).

Anyway, I'll ask Rafael if he wants to come over tonight as well [just to watch a movie and sleep together-- no sex, since I have hemorroids- yuck].

On Thursday I'll go to the disco Rafael recommended, on Friday I plan to go to a pub with some guy, and on Saturday I'll be back at the disco. I'm sure I will have fun. I still think about Alex, occasionally, during the day. My mind errs away without me being able to control it at all. You know, seven days ago my life was going to change radically. I feel mixed feelings. Guess that's part of the healing process.

But I don't want to end things on a sour note, really. So thank you again for listening to me throughout all these months [or years], and for telling me what I often don't want to hear.

 

[spencer]

Don't piss all over everyone here because you don't agree with the advice given.

That's the thing, he followed your advice. You guys always tell someone to go for it in this situation. He actually did and he actually got some and the other guy fled. We all get that. But then you guys ridiculed him for not getting closure (whether it would help or not).

If he hadn't continued to pursue him you would have posted over and over about how he should have went after him or go after someone else (which he did too).

He's come out of his shell a lot. I just didn't like the part where you guys made him to apologize when you know very well, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.

I applauded him for putting himself out there and told him, he's going to run into rejection like that a lot because guys do that a lot. And people answering this post probably do that and I don't think that's right. But to each their own. I choose to tell youngins to not practice what hurts them by hurting other people in the future. It spread the unhealthiness.

 

[rareboy]

But then you guys ridiculed him for not getting closure (whether it would help or not).

Well that is just nonsense, isn't it.

There is no ridicule and it is unfair for you to make such an assertion.

We all understand that many people get emotional and stop thinking rationally or expressing themselves clearly.

Some have a great difficulty in learning to deal with situations in a mature and balanced way and so they lash out to make sure that all the other adults and children in the room know that they're unhappy. A lot of stamping about and crying and yelling.

A lot of the advice that is given here is offered by survivors; guys who have been there, done that and managed to live to see another day. A lot of times, posters have had to learn many of these same lessons the hard way as well. that is why we bother to respond to particular threads.

So when you want to add some advice, you can offer a different point of view if you wish. But don't start by attacking the other posters, or calling their advice bullshit.

Ok?

 

[KaraBulut]

A lot of the advice that is given here is offered by survivors; guys who have been there, done that and managed to live to see another day. A lot of times, posters have had to learn many of these same lessons the hard way as well. that is why we bother to respond to particular threads.

... because it bears repeating.

Been there.
Done that.
Have the scars.
Got the t-shirt.