"Palin is Hillary's Gift to Obama"

[Spensed]

McCain doesn't scare me any more than Obama does.

My friend, I am looking for reasons to vote for Obama but I'm not finding them from Obama or his supporters.

Well one reason would be that the candidate you did support now fully endorses Obama. Not a dispositive reason, but it should count for something.

Another reason would be that the differences between Hillary's policies and proposals are de minimis compared with the differences between Hillary's policies and McCain's.

On the gay front, Obama is also much closer to Hillary's positions than McCain.

http://obama.3cdn.net/9bbadf2e4222f1de03_5humvyu4s.pdf

McCain/Palin will not only refuse to advance anti-gay-discrimination legislation or facilitate full gay civil unions and adoptions, but McCain will also appoint more anti-gay judges to the Supreme Court and more judges there like Scalia, Thomas and Alito will chip away, if not overturn, Lawrence v. Texas, and recriminalize gay sex.

But you know all of that.

Hillary was every bit as much of a divisive figure to Obama supporters as he was to hers. But Hillary supporters voting for a McCain/Palin platform, which is so anathema to everything she stands for, really is cutting off their noses to spite their faces. IMHO.

 

[MystikWizard]

Spensed, despite what you just said, he claims McCain has "plusses". And there is a thread devoted to just the cause of telling us all what those are. We've had Obama this and that, positive and (lots of) negative threads, all up and down this forum for months, maybe a year now. Yes, there are a lot of McCain/Pander complaints, some fair, some really ridiculous, but now there's a heavily-modded, on-topic thread devoted to just the purpose of pointing out the "plusses" of a President McCain. That thread has only vague, general responses from foreigners and non-McCain supporters---no one has stated a single reason why McCain himself should be elected.

Some people, I think, just like the attention they receive of being a divisive figure. Those type of people should go on Ignore. Come to think of it, one just has recently and I would encourage others to put those type of people on Ignore ... unless like you say, they back up their words and they post their reasons of why we should support McCain in that thread. Until then, it appears as though we have some drama queens ... who are going on Ignore. It's time for the babyshit to end.

 

[chance1]

Hey chance haven't you heard....you don't need to be experienced to be president......just ask John McCain.

not sure what to say other than you're not really trying to sell THE CHOSEN ONE as having more experience thatn JMac r u??

even u wouldn't do that

has spensed taken over ur computer?

 

[Spensed]

not sure what to say other than you're not really trying to sell THE CHOSEN ONE as having more experience thatn JMac r u??

What of any significance has McCain acheived with his experience but an election ethics bill he tried to dodge around in his own campaign?

Plus, of course, Obama outranks McCain in judgment, intelligence and integrity.

And, of course, Obama is against discriminating against gays, whereas McCain opposes legislation to prevent it.

 

[NickCole]

Some people, I think, just like the attention they receive of being a divisive figure. Those type of people should go on Ignore. Come to think of it, one just has recently and I would encourage others to put those type of people on Ignore ... unless like you say, they back up their words and they post their reasons of why we should support McCain in that thread. Until then, it appears as though we have some drama queens ... who are going on Ignore. It's time for the babyshit to end.

Thank you for showing exactly why I won't post in that thread, and why I won't answer your question.

This, above, is a bullying tactic. It's one thing to decide for yourself to put me on ignore, that's fine, but this is an attempt to divide me from as much of the group here as you can by "I would encourage others to put those type of people on Ignore." That's shunning. It's meanspirited and an attempt at orchestrated divisiveness. And, according to what you wrote above, all because I won't post my reasons to support McCain, when I've clearly stated that I do not support McCain -- I haven't decided whom to support.

Despite your baseless assertion, I've done nothing to encourage divisiveness; I state my opinion and everyone is equally welcome to ignore it, agree with it or or disagree. I never tag-team with others against others.

Why not just have a conversation -- you say what you want and I say what I want, and leave it at that, without all the drama queen manipulation.

 

[Spensed]

^ Clinton dead-enders are simply more divisive and baiting to many Democrats than out-and-out McCain supporters.

As Obama dead-enders would have been, if Hillary had been the Democratic nominee.

It's like any ideas based group. The infighting and venom are often most severe amoung former colleagues than against outsiders to the group.

Needless to add that the infighting and venon are rarely one sided

 

[RandomAccess]

^ Clinton dead-enders are simply more divisive and baiting to many Democrats than out-and-out McCain supporters.

As Obama dead-enders would have been, if Hillary had been the Democratic nominee.

It's like any ideas based group. The infighting and venom are often most severe amoung former colleagues than against outsiders to the group.

Needless to add that the infighting and venon are rarely one sided

You got it backwards, Spensed, buddy. Midnight was being divisive and baiting. NickCole was pointing it out. Midnight was on the attack, again. NickCole, Former Hillary supporter, was only stating fact.

When are Obama supporters going to stop trying to badger fellow Democrats into voting for their candidate? It' BEYOND time for them to be persuasive rather than condemning.

 

[chance1]

McCain thinks the economy is fundamentally strong. Lets say he isn't just lying to America and he actually BELIEVES this... does that scare anyone else? Did experience tell him that?

the economy is fundamentally strong

i work in nyc every day and participate

these r tough times for sure - especially for any of those who will lose their jobs - for sure

but to suggest that our economy is fundamentally flawed or weak or whatever ..........

if thats where BO wants to go

well he's just proving he's not the guy to lead

and he's using the sitch for political gain - his own

first iraq

now this

what a leader

NOT

 

[Spensed]

You got it backwards, Spensed, buddy. Midnight was being divisive and baiting. NickCole was pointing it out. Midnight was on the attack, again. NickCole, Former Hillary supporter, was only stating fact.

When are Obama supporters going to stop trying to badger fellow Democrats into voting for their candidate? It' BEYOND time for them to be persuasive rather than condemning.

Oh it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. Baiting leads to badgering and vice versa.

Obviously, all posters needn't have uniform attitudes about persuading and/or condemning.

I don't think its possible to persuade committed pro-McCain/Palin folk into voting for Obama.

Nor do I think it's possbile to win over Hillary supporters, who aren't supporting Obama by this point. Hillary and Bill Clinton have done their best. Hillary's and Obama's policies are materially the same. And McCain is anathema to everything Hillary (who I actually supported) stands for.

Carping about Obama's alleged lack of experience, for example, is simply wrong, in my view, and worth commenting on and condeming as such, no matter who says it.

 

[Spensed]

the economy is fundamentally strong

i work in nyc every day and participate

these r tough times for sure - especially for any of those who will lose their jobs - for sure

but to suggest that our economy is fundamentally flawed or weak or whatever ..........

if thats where BO wants to go

well he's just proving he's not the guy to lead

and he's using the sitch for political gain - his own

first iraq

now this

what a leader

NOT

Funny, even your fearless leader is now saying that, "We are in a total crisis." LOL.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/17/us/politics/17mccain.html?_r=1&em&oref=slogin

 

[NickCole]

Nor do I think it's possbile to win over Hillary supporters, who aren't supporting Obama by this point.

"In a world where carpenters get resurrected, anything is possible."

--From one of my favorite movies, The Lion in Winter

 

[naked gent]

not sure what to say other than you're not really trying to sell THE CHOSEN ONE as having more experience thatn JMac r u??

even u wouldn't do that

has spensed taken over ur computer?

I'm not saying anything about Obama at all, just saying something about the value of experience. You seem to value it quite highly but by picking Palin Johnny Mac is implicitly saying that he does not.

If he believes she is qualified to be president then, based on experience, he also believes Obama is qualified to be president.

I find it amusing that you value experience far more than McCain and the people running his campaign do and seeing as they have far more experience than you do they are in a much better position to know its true value.

Perhaps you should learn something about the value of experience from those who are actually experienced.

 

[RandomAccess]

Carping about Obama's alleged lack of experience, for example, is simply wrong, in my view, and worth commenting on and condeming as such, no matter who says it.

Sorry. . . I witnessed no "carping" on Nick's behalf.

 

[rowjimmy21]

the economy is fundamentally strong

i work in nyc every day and participate

these r tough times for sure - especially for any of those who will lose their jobs - for sure

but to suggest that our economy is fundamentally flawed or weak or whatever ..........

If your comparing the rest of the country to NYC you need to travel a little more. There are many places around this country where the economy is flawed and doesn't work for many people. With unemployment at over 6% and rising this will cost even more to the economy. In some places unemployment is over 10%.

if thats where BO wants to go

well he's just proving he's not the guy to lead

and he's using the sitch for political gain - his own

All politicians use current events to prove their points and policy. I think McCain used the Georgia issue to his political advantage.