paranoia and homophobia in the so-called 'truther' movement about the 'GAY AGENDA'

[kallipolis]

ludolfo it is surprising that you can recognise the paranoia in these people without gaining any insight into the fundamental gullibility of being taken in by "truther" conspiracy theories.

Noteworthy common sense.

 

[ludolfo]

Noteworthy common sense.

but your 'common sense' totally ignores my reply and questions which have also been ignored by the person I asked. I see that 'sense' limited!

 

[kallipolis]

but your 'common sense' totally ignores my reply and questions which have also been ignored by the person I asked. I see that 'sense' limited!

No....I read every post....my observation, stands....

 

[Jacquemar]

It's religionist thinking D) you can't disprove it so it must be true...

There is no proof that aliens DIDN'T build the pyramids of ancient Egypt, so I guess...

I also agree with bankside.

 

[jbrown329]

I fucking want to puke and punch someone in the eye when the "Gay Agenda" is brought up. You know where they got the Agenda from? Here.

Michael Swift: "Gay Revolutionary"

From Gay Community News, Feb. 15-21, 1987
(reprinted from The Congressional Record, with preface restored)

In 1987, Michael Swift was asked to contribute an editorial piece to GCN, an important gay community magazine, although well to the left of most American gay and lesbian opinion. A decade later this text, printed in the Congressional Record is repeatedly cited, apparently verbatim, by the religious right as evidence of the "Gay Agenda". The video Gay Rights, Special Rights, put out by Lou Sheldon's Traditional Values Coalition cites it with ominous music and picture of children. But when the religious rights cites this text, they always omit, as does the Congressional record, the vital first line, which sets the context for the piece. In other words, every other version of this found on the net is part of the radical right's great lie about gay people. For a discussion of the whole "Gay vs. Religious Right" phenomenon see Chris Bull and John Gallagher: Perfect Enemies: The Religious Right, the Gay Movement, and the Politics of the 1990s, (New York: Crown, 1996)

This essay is an outré, madness, a tragic, cruel fantasy, an eruption of inner rage, on how the oppressed desperately dream of being the oppressor.

http://legacy.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/swift1.asp

 

[Mariatenebre]

Since especially the 9/11 attacks, and getting onto the internet, I was willy willy drawn into the alternative investigations of the 9/11 attacks, and also into other questioning of official narratives put out by politicians, the corporations, and their media

I could dig what some 'truthers' were saying. it made sense, and I felt a certain camaraderie. HOWEVER failry resently I have been witness to homophobia coming from certain of these people--call them 'truthers'--who make videos etc. Their argument is that--it goes like this: 'I am not homophobic, and have no problems with people in the LGBT community, and some of my best friends are gay...BUT, the media which is the puppet of the evil globalists is propagating a "Gay Agenda" whose purpose it is is to turn heterosexual males gay and/or feminize them, and the Feminists are trying mascualize women, and they are also trying to turn children and adults into transgendered androgynous people. And they will do these videos showing things in the media and film and mags etc supposedly proving their point. They again and again will cream they are not being homophobic pointing this out, and some swear that their gay friends agree with them. One person who posted under one of the videos claimed to be gay and agreed with what they are saying.

I have asked these people if they agree then with what is happening in Russia. it is the very same muddled and very dangerous idea they are disseminating. On one hand the power elite in Russia claim to have nothing against people in the LGBT community and then with the other hand write into law the 'Gay propaganda Law' which forbids gay people being able to have contact with children because of fear they will 'corrupt' them. This law has and is causing TERRIBLE situation for LGTB people there who are being excluded, persecuted, violently assaulted and even murdered!

So I am asking people here what they think about all of this?

The truther movement is full of bullshit it is well known that Muslims enacted 9/11. Further more at best most "truthers" I have seen are illuminati believing far right Christians and Muslims who are sexist and homophobic. They support patriarchy and homophobia. As Science shows no one can change someone to be LGBT it is inborn and honest most Pagan societies prior to the Abrahamic religions accepted LGBT people some even had third genders. The Bugis people of Indonesia believe there are 5 genders. These people are at best social conservatives who support Christian and Islamic patriarchy. I deal with these people all of the time on the internet.

LOL, OMG, no no no. You are very wrong. I am not someone who has just dipped their little pinky into the truth movement, I have dived full in and been on this for years, and have seen LOTS and LOTS of evidence which tears shreds (though it is so full of holes already) out of the absurd ludicrous official BS story you have seemed to fall for hook line and sinker. But this thread isn't really about that. it is about me being disillusioned and offended as a gay person when members who share my insights in how 9/11 was false flag seem now to be going on about a 'gay agenda' perpetuated by the globalists and their mass media

Just to say it also seems very controversial to try and discuss 9/11 here at JUS forums, especially if israel and Zionism are mentioned--which they HAVE to be! When I tried in its political forum last year I was immediately censored!

Actually as any skeptical source will tell you the official story is the factual story. The truther movement has long been debunked. Further more I support Israel and Zionism and LGBT people should as well as they treat LGBT people well unlike Islamic nations.

 

[jbrown329]

I flirted for awhile with the truther movement. It got old fast. But to this day, there are still a couple things that bother me. Nothing big.

I've watched Loose Change and treated it like a low budget Hollywood movie. The one that really makes you sit up and take notice is The Power Of Nightmares. It has nothing to do with 9/11. Same goes with The Carlisle Group Exposed. Both can be found online.

 

[Kulindahr]

I think this should be treated seriously. The problem is that, when these rumor-mill conspiracies start taking root, it's hard to dislodge them.

The grain of truth in there is this: we do know that encouraging young women to feel empowered improves their academic and life achievement, and it reduces unplanned pregnancies. This isn't clearly "masculinization," but some people might interpret it as such. It's really an ongoing effort to make sure that the children we are having will have plenty to eat and a safe place to grow up.

Furthermore, we are trying to dial-back machismo culture, which is actually dangerous to young men, including heterosexual men and women, who are not as readily able to defend themselves in such an environment. Far from being just about LGBTQ issues, it's also about making our schools safe, including for young people who suffer from disabilities. Furthermore, machismo culture, in its excesses, is dangerous for those who participate in it. When we criticize the excesses of machismo culture, this is why, not because we want to turn men into women.

In a sense, there is a seeming of validity in the idea of a "gay conspiracy to make everyone androgynous," but LGBTQ activists are very open about these things. Nobody is hiding anything at all. It is out there in plain sight. We talk about these things very clearly and plainly. You can explain every single grain of truth in these conspiracies simply by taking LGBTQ activists at face-value.

As far as "breaking down the family," again, take people at face value, and you will be much less confused. What feminists mean by women being "independent" is precisely that women can choose to enter marriages that are based on love and having something in common with their partners, rather than entering "marriages of convenience." Women being "independent" means precisely what it sounds like it means. It means that, if you are a man, you have to win your future wife over by being intelligent, interesting, moral, and authentically cool. It's not enough just to have a job and a car anymore. If you're not up to it, then go ahead and complain, but we're not keeping any fucking secrets from you.

Chasing trails of perceived bread-crumbs into the howling wilderness of alternative media will only lead to you being eaten by a grue.

I thought about the machismo aspect to this, and its especial prominence in Russia, but I decided that doesn't go far enough for those who fit the Putin mold, whether there or in the US or wherever. The phenomenon reaches beyond machismo into realms of brutality, where people consider physical violence to achieve goals and deal with problems not just acceptable, but admirable, so that if two men facing the same problem bring different approaches to dealing with it, the one who is more violent, even barbaric, is applauded and the other regarded with pity.

This ties in with an article I read recently about ISIS, how it's a throwback to before nationalism to raw tribalism where brutality isn't just a tool but is a principle to be aspired to. The same is true of the raw core of "truthers"; they speak of patriotism and such, but their real loyalty is to their own kind, and they have little regard for the lives of anyone outside that circle. It's a tribalism not of blood, which can be moderated, but of blood-lust, and thus a tribalism that can only lead to destruction, never to any kind of advancement.

There's even a whole literary genre out there that such people feed on, a great deal of it post-collapse (of civilization) where those who take power and use it in barbaric fashion to rape, pillage, plunder, enslave, etc. all the "wrong" types of people (or even the "right" kind in pursuit of a "noble" end) are celebrated and idolized. Just reading some of it is nauseating, but I know people who almost literally lust for such a world, where they could rape women (or men) just to show their power, settle all issues with fists or knives, etc. That these people migrate to and wallow in the "truther" 'community' isn't at all surprising.

 

[Kulindahr]

Oh, conspiracies exist, but so do conspiracy theories, many of which are just bunk, especially when they live on in groups of people with a higher than average level of paranoia.

I'm a big fan of Hanlon's Razor too.

Heinlein's Razor is a better fit to what your post says:

"Don't attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity -- but don't rule out malice."

 

[ludolfo]

The truther movement is full of bullshit it is well known that Muslims enacted 9/11. Further more at best most "truthers" I have seen are illuminati believing far right Christians and Muslims who are sexist and homophobic. They support patriarchy and homophobia. As Science shows no one can change someone to be LGBT it is inborn and honest most Pagan societies prior to the Abrahamic religions accepted LGBT people some even had third genders. The Bugis people of Indonesia believe there are 5 genders. These people are at best social conservatives who support Christian and Islamic patriarchy. I deal with these people all of the time on the internet.



Actually as any skeptical source will tell you the official story is the factual story. The truther movement has long been debunked. Further more I support Israel and Zionism and LGBT people should as well as they treat LGBT people well unlike Islamic nations.

You are so utterly wrong it is quite funny ([Text: Removed]), but you know what? I truly do not think I can adequately explore this subject here. As I said in a previous post in this thread, when I tried to discuss about this in the politics forum, I was immediately warned, and the thread was shut down! Why? I tell you why, because I tried to impart actual evidence of deep Zionist involvement in the planning, carrying out and aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, and ongoing. But apparently that is too taboo to even dare mention here, and I am also on to why this is so. The people who had the MEANS, MOTIVE and OPPORTUNITY (vital things you need to look at in any crime investigation) have two cards they use: the Holocaust card, and the antisemitic card. So this means that any investigation which mentions and seeks to investigate possible Jewish involvement gets you accused of being antisemitic. Convenient hey? It is absolutely taboo in the mass media, and politics. Your career is finished if you whisper it.

So I have explained that for you now, briefly, but obviously I very much warn that if this were to continue this thread would be blocked like happened elsewhere in JUB. So I will leave you with that understanding. The World Wide Web has the information for those with the initiative to find this out. If you choose to believe the absolutely absurd official narrative about 9/11, and the other evil stuff they are doing it is up to you, and your problem. I had assumed you had more sense.

So, bringing it back to the 'Gay Agenda'. I am not suggesting _ALL_ people in the truther movement believe this and are homophobic. I have never heard this talked about in Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth for example, and there are over 2000 members, I think. Really up to now in my experience (but many of the comments under their videos support this rubbish) it is mainly two, and one of them is the 'truther' type who thinks most things shown in the media are a hoax. I would listen because he was amusing, but I went quickly off him when he began with this vile propaganda.

 

[ludolfo]

I have also just come across this vlog where he criticizes the homophobic 'gay agenda' people. Where I don't agree with him is when he dismisses those behind a new world order/world government. I think this is very real, and exceptionally dangerous. Anyone who is following the ecocide being done to Earth and the exploitation of peoples and animals MUST see that!
As said previously, there are patriarchal masks, and the power elite are steeped in occultism, and astute investigators can discern their fingerprints. So for example, precisely 11 years (they LOVE this number) prior to their false flag 9/11/2001, President George Bush snr. gave a speech on 9/11/ 1990 where he mentions a 'new world order' So, IMO, in order to unravel all this weird stuff and get to the roots of what is going on, so you don't become a rabid paranoid homophobic, women-hating, nature-hating control-freak, you have to explore patriarchal mythology, and that is where you find the roots to all of this! It connects the dots.

But anyways check it out

 

[ludolfo]

I fucking want to puke and punch someone in the eye when the "Gay Agenda" is brought up. You know where they got the Agenda from? Here.

Michael Swift: "Gay Revolutionary"
http://legacy.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/swift1.asp

Hey JBrown, it has been on my mind for days now to thank you very much for this info! This is what I love about the internet at its best, when people share fruitful information that interconnects. I of course know the 'gay agenda' stuff is paranoid homophobic evil BS, but yet didn't know about this, and will file it. Thanks :0

 

[jbrown329]

^^ You're welcome. I've posted that in different forums online for over a decade.

 

[Mariatenebre]

You are so utterly wrong it is quite funny ([Text: Removed]), but you know what? I truly do not think I can adequately explore this subject here. As I said in a previous post in this thread, when I tried to discuss about this in the politics forum, I was immediately warned, and the thread was shut down! Why? I tell you why, because I tried to impart actual evidence of deep Zionist involvement in the planning, carrying out and aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, and ongoing. But apparently that is too taboo to even dare mention here, and I am also on to why this is so. The people who had the MEANS, MOTIVE and OPPORTUNITY (vital things you need to look at in any crime investigation) have two cards they use: the Holocaust card, and the antisemitic card. So this means that any investigation which mentions and seeks to investigate possible Jewish involvement gets you accused of being antisemitic. Convenient hey? It is absolutely taboo in the mass media, and politics. Your career is finished if you whisper it.

So I have explained that for you now, briefly, but obviously I very much warn that if this were to continue this thread would be blocked like happened elsewhere in JUB. So I will leave you with that understanding. The World Wide Web has the information for those with the initiative to find this out. If you choose to believe the absolutely absurd official narrative about 9/11, and the other evil stuff they are doing it is up to you, and your problem. I had assumed you had more sense.

So, bringing it back to the 'Gay Agenda'. I am not suggesting _ALL_ people in the truther movement believe this and are homophobic. I have never heard this talked about in Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth for example, and there are over 2000 members, I think. Really up to now in my experience (but many of the comments under their videos support this rubbish) it is mainly two, and one of them is the 'truther' type who thinks most things shown in the media are a hoax. I would listen because he was amusing, but I went quickly off him when he began with this vile propaganda.

And you would be wrong. All of the evidence shows that Muslims were behind and did 9/11. All of the highjackers were Muslim and Bin Laden and Al Qaeda admitted to it. Israel has been a wonderful ally to us and actually treats Gay people quite well unlike the Islamic nations. The truther movement is just full of conspiritards with usually an anti semetic agenda.

This page right here pretty much debunks the truther movementy here.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/9-11_conspiracy_theories

I don't see how any LGBT person could be anti Israel considering how good they treat Gay people.

 

[Mitchymo]

The truther movement is just full of conspiritards with usually an anti semetic agenda.

I don't see how any LGBT person could be anti Israel considering how good they treat Gay people.

Very anti semetic. They are mostly right-wing christians who are anti-gay. Homosexuality is a sign of the devil as far as they are concerned. No self respecting gay guy (or bi) (or anyone really) should take the conspiracy theories seriously. Those that prove to be genuine, come out in the end, and they are not linked to aliens, or the illuminati, or Satan when they do.

 

[Mariatenebre]

That is exactly what I am saying Mitchymo I have dealt with these truthers before and most are usually Christian and Muslims who are anti semetic, anti gay and anti feminist. They think that this so called illuminati is the cause of everything wrong in their life to which they say are comprised of either Jews, Pagans, Satanists etc even though all 3 groups are very different religions. It still boggles my mind at how there are gay people who are anti Israel as Israel treats gays quite well. Much better then any Islamic nation.

 

[Mitchymo]

It still boggles my mind at how there are gay people who are anti Israel as Israel treats gays quite well. Much better then any Islamic nation.

I suspect it is Israel's extremist response in its counter-attacks that tarnish the otherwise good reputation it may have on upholding human rights. There are some gay friendly nazi groups that exist out there, wouldn't make it right to support them for that alone.
Israel's response towards Gaza the last time Hamas kicked off, the people suffered, not Hamas, it was massively disproportionate in its response, and done itself no favours on the world stage unfortunately.

 

[Mariatenebre]

Mitchymo I honestly don't see much wrong in how Israel deals with the Palestinians. Do they sometimes act out of line maybe. However the Palestinian situation is self created. They could have had their own nation existing side by side Israel many times over in the past but instead they would rather do jihad on Israel until they can throw all of the Jews into the sea. In Hamas's charter it even states the Islamic Hadith that states that the end of days will not come until Muslims go and kill Jews and even the trees will say "Oh Muslim there is a Jew behind me kill them." In Hamas schools you hear things stated about the Jews that come right out of Nazi Germany. Not to mention the fact that the Palestinians and Arab Muslims in general continue to own Black slaves. Black slave children sell for 14 dollars a head in Palestine and the Arab world usually taken from such places as Sudan. I heard this from Black Sudanese Feminist Kola Boof who has lived all over the Arab world including Palestine. When it comes to Gays the situation is grim as well. Just to give you an example there has been cases where Gay Men have their anuses glued shut and fed laxatives until they literally burst. Many LGBT people in Palestine even try to go to Israel for protection. Non Muslims are also treated deplorably in Palestine. So excuse me if I do not feel sympathy for these people.

 

[Mitchymo]

Mitchymo I honestly don't see much wrong in how Israel deals with the Palestinians. Do they sometimes act out of line maybe. However the Palestinian situation is self created. They could have had their own nation existing side by side Israel many times over in the past but instead they would rather do jihad on Israel until they can throw all of the Jews into the sea. In Hamas's charter it even states the Islamic Hadith that states that the end of days will not come until Muslims go and kill Jews and even the trees will say "Oh Muslim there is a Jew behind me kill them." In Hamas schools you hear things stated about the Jews that come right out of Nazi Germany. Not to mention the fact that the Palestinians and Arab Muslims in general continue to own Black slaves. Black slave children sell for 14 dollars a head in Palestine and the Arab world usually taken from such places as Sudan. I heard this from Black Sudanese Feminist Kola Boof who has lived all over the Arab world including Palestine. When it comes to Gays the situation is grim as well. Just to give you an example there has been cases where Gay Men have their anuses glued shut and fed laxatives until they literally burst. Many LGBT people in Palestine even try to go to Israel for protection. Non Muslims are also treated deplorably in Palestine. So excuse me if I do not feel sympathy for these people.

Given where Palestine lies, i find that quite hard to believe in all honesty. I'm far more inclined to believe that the Palestinian authority is a puppet government. Hamas is funded by outside forces. That part of the Middle East would be a lot more peaceful if it wasn't for the likes of Iran and Saudi Arabia stirring shit up.
I don't believe the Palestinian people are so extreme as you make out. Bombing their children is not going to help, if anything, they will turn to the hatred that is the major factor in the threat to Israel.
Israel should do itself a favour, stop incursions on Palestinian land, give back land which it effectively stole, and stick to proportionate and targetted responses. Its not as if most Hamas rockets do anything other than land randomly in rural areas or get shot down. Israel would have wider support perhaps if it didn't keep fanning the flames, instead of seeking to extinguish them.

 

[ludolfo]

Mitchymo I honestly don't see much wrong in how Israel deals with the Palestinians. Do they sometimes act out of line maybe. However the Palestinian situation is self created. They could have had their own nation existing side by side Israel many times over in the past but instead they would rather do jihad on Israel until they can throw all of the Jews into the sea. In Hamas's charter it even states the Islamic Hadith that states that the end of days will not come until Muslims go and kill Jews and even the trees will say "Oh Muslim there is a Jew behind me kill them." In Hamas schools you hear things stated about the Jews that come right out of Nazi Germany. Not to mention the fact that the Palestinians and Arab Muslims in general continue to own Black slaves. Black slave children sell for 14 dollars a head in Palestine and the Arab world usually taken from such places as Sudan. I heard this from Black Sudanese Feminist Kola Boof who has lived all over the Arab world including Palestine. When it comes to Gays the situation is grim as well. Just to give you an example there has been cases where Gay Men have their anuses glued shut and fed laxatives until they literally burst. Many LGBT people in Palestine even try to go to Israel for protection. Non Muslims are also treated deplorably in Palestine. So excuse me if I do not feel sympathy for these people.

Do not derail and hijack my thread with your pernicious racist, and utterly misinformed posts.