Patriot Act Quietly Renewed Without Dissent

[metta]

Patriot Act Quietly Renewed Without Dissent


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/43230584

 

[fetaby]

And if this thread is any indication of people's interest, you can now see why this has happened.

People don't give a shit. As long as they can watch their youtube and eat snocones, all is right in the world.

 

[gingentleman]

Some of us do give a shit, but are unable to stop the madness, no matter how we vote or how many letters we write to our elected officials. But I do agree that too few people care about this. The "Patriot Act" was an abomination when it was conceived and implemented and yet it has been allowed to remain in place. This is shameful.

 

[Orlandude]

Apathy. People simply don't care and/or have forgotten how insidious this horrible law really is.

Then again, look at the nutjobs running around wanting to be President and the delusional following they have around them.

 

[eryk-v]

Big Brother lives on.

 

[gsdx]

I Googled it. I didn't know it was an acronym:

Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001

It sounds so positive in name. I wonder how many Americans don't know what it really means for them as American citizens?

 

[vforvendetta]

Did anybody really think it wouldn't be renewed? Each administration is a continuation of the previous, with a few social issues used as bait to stir up controversy. The political system in the US, at the federal level at least, is in my view a complete failure.

 

[LittleDove]

Big Brother lives on.

I Googled it. I didn't know it was an acronym:

Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001

It sounds so positive in name. I wonder how many Americans don't know what it really means for them as American citizens?

Each year and every year, the National Security State is estimated to collect data that, by volume, is greater than all of the data contained in the US Library of Congress. As a mental exercise, digitalise the entire holdings of the US Library of Congress, and give that quantity of data a value of 1 LOC. In the name of 'national security'. the US government collects a volume of date greater than 1 LOC ... each year.

Those who do not live within the physical confines of the US, or who are not US citizens should not imagine they are immune to being 'collected'. If you do anything on-line -- from sending an email, doing a bit of on-line banking, making a purchase from a web-site, and so on -- and that electronic transmission at any point in its career passes through a US hub (which probability says that it will), somewhere in that ever-accreting mountain of data being collected is a pile of bytes with your name attached to it.

 

[Puzuzzu]

Under Harper, we are doing something similar.

 

[evanrick]

Ive been a keen political observer/participant for over 10 years, accurately predicting the 2004 and 2008 presidential elections (i know, not that hard). I watched the 2000 presidential elections, even at 16, with great interest.

after these 10 years I have come to some conclusions....

The Constitution is toast, the framers make a TITANIC BLUNDER to "enumerate" our rights in the bill of rights, and they also made another blunder in underestimating the power of the federal government would have with enumerated rights.

If our rights HAD NOT been enumerated, meaning not spelled out, then the federal government would not have ANY of the powers it claims to now.

The problem with spelling out rights is that you can find ways to avoid "conflicts with the constitution" with semantics and federal judges.

The patriot act itself is unconstitutional, so is DOMA, the many military actions we have taken over the past few years, "retroactive immunity" to Verizon, telecoms for domestic wiretapping, etc, torture, to name a few.

Just because the supreme court sees something their way that does not make it true or correct.

There was great debate AFTER our country was founded, the federalists, mostly business people (modern day neo-cons), won, and a "strong central federal government" took hold.

The Anti-Federalists, who were basically todays labor unions/democrats, opposed this form of government, and the constitution, because the enormous power it gave the fed.

The bill of rights are only AMENDMENTS to the Constitution, a mere afterthought given to the anti-federalists for their support in ratifying it.

The so called bill of rights is essentially a catch 22.

Its only important because its the only rights we have spelled out, even though there is a explicit clause saying that the bill of rights cant be used to prohibit other rights, but that is exactly what has/is happening to our country.

If the anti-federalists (modern day liberals) had won, the bill of rights wouldn't be necessary, as Americans we would have 100% freedom, and congress would have to ask Americans to pass laws expanding federal powers, which is highly unpopular (see Patriot Act)

There is a clause in the Declaration of Independence that calls for establishment of new government if the Federal Government becomes tyrannical.

That is what we have now, national interests have trumped individual interests, and individual liberties are being dispensed with, with federal interests taking precedence.

That is the textbook definition of tyranny.

this is a broad subject indeed, but its now clear that the Articles of Confederation and anti-federalists were 100% correct in wanting a league of states, that looked out for common interests, instead of a central government always thirsting for more power....

wiki:
The Articles of Confederation does not call the United States of America a "nation" or "government," but instead says,

"The said States hereby severally enter into a firm league of friendship with each other, for their common defense, the security of their liberties, and their mutual and general welfare, binding themselves to assist each other, against all force offered to, or attacks made upon them, or any of them, on account of religion, sovereignty, trade, or any other pretense whatever."


It appears we already have a superior form of government in place, the peoples will was simply ignored to create a federalist state.

So there was a free America for a few years before the constitution arrived, essentially it was killed and hijacked by a federalist coup.

 

[healingduck]

I actually saw this on several websites that it was gonna happen. Of course it wasn't on a bunch of newstations though....(from what I saw)

I must say though I'm really disappointed. After seeing this, I don't see it being discontinued; at least in my life time unless everyone decides to stand up against it.

 

[lambdaboy]

This is one of the reasons my partner and I now live in London, Have dual citizenship and will never again live in the U.S.A., even though we were born there. For the record we are atheists and gay which of course is a great reason not to live in the states.

I had hope that Obama would change things but find him to be as right wing as Bush just more inteligent.

 

[evanrick]

George Clinton, 5 time governor of NY and 2 time VP once asked a young America

"you are about to precipitate yourselves into a sea of uncertainty, and adopt a system so vague, and which has discarded so many of your valuable rights. -- Is it because you do not believe that an American can be a tyrant?"

We are fooling ourselves to believe that America as not become a tyrant.

 

[vforvendetta]

This is one of the reasons my partner and I now live in London, Have dual citizenship and will never again live in the U.S.A., even though we were born there. For the record we are atheists and gay which of course is a great reason not to live in the states.

I had hope that Obama would change things but find him to be as right wing as Bush just more inteligent.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but London isn't exactly the most private city in the world - the UK as a country is well known for its surveillance society. I lived there for four years, and remember it quite well. Tolerance of gays is going down the toilet too while politicians cater to religious extremists....waste of a once liberal and fun society if you ask me.

The sad thing is that I maintain that the US still has the most freedom promoting political framework the world has ever seen, although I'm disappointed to say that it's been dragged through the gutter, at first slowly and then with quickening pace, over the last 100 years.

 

[evanrick]

I had hope that Obama would change things but find him to be as right wing as Bush just more inteligent.

I agree in principle, but if you want to dig deeper, i find it no coincidence that Obama was out of the country when his signature was needed to renew the fast expiring patriot act.

I doubt that is an image history would look fondly upon, and Obama knows it.

Imagine 100 years from now when America is either a rotting stink-hole of facism or paradise, the so-called liberal champion of "change", Americans first black president, elected in a landslide, is re-authorizing one of the worst assaults on liberty in American history.

Obama did sign the patriot act authorization, but his hand never touched the paper.

Would have it been to much to ask to veto that shit Barack?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/28/us/politics/28sign.html

Article 1, Section 7 of the Constitution requires that a bill “be presented to the president of the United States; if he approve he shall sign it.”

So if you wana get technical, the patriot act went into effect without his signature.
But 4 years from now when it expires again, I wonder what trick he will pull.

 

[kallipolis]

I wonder how many of the contributors to this thread have been personally abused by any one, or other of the provisions of The Patriot Act?

I would like to hear their stories.

 

[vforvendetta]

I wonder how many of the contributors to this thread have been personally abused by any one, or other of the provisions of The Patriot Act?

I would like to hear their stories.

I have to have been personally abused by the Patriot Act in order to object to its legality and use? Ignoring the fact that it's hard to tell exactly what provisions of the Patriot Act may or may not have been used on any given citizen (given it's all hush hush top secret stuff and not open to public oversight), I think it's a very poor attitude you take that one should sit by idly while a piece of (VERY) bad legislation is used on other citizens in likely violation of their Constitutional rights. The kind of passive thinking you use is exactly what leads to a government with far too much power at its disposal - whether that be a slightly bloated police state to a flat out dictatorial regime. Either we work together as a people to remain free, or the wolves devour us one at a time.

 

[evanrick]

I wonder how many of the contributors to this thread have been personally abused by any one, or other of the provisions of The Patriot Act?

I would like to hear their stories.

debates should be reserved for CEP so i will leave a familiar quote

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unions,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

If you dont feel abused, then you must not live in America.

 

[kallipolis]

I have to have been personally abused by the Patriot Act in order to object to its legality and use? Ignoring the fact that it's hard to tell exactly what provisions of the Patriot Act may or may not have been used on any given citizen (given it's all hush hush top secret stuff and not open to public oversight), I think it's a very poor attitude you take that one should sit by idly while a piece of (VERY) bad legislation is used on other citizens in likely violation of their Constitutional rights. The kind of passive thinking you use is exactly what leads to a government with far too much power at its disposal - whether that be a slightly bloated police state to a flat out dictatorial regime. Either we work together as a people to remain free, or the wolves devour us one at a time.

Were the security services, and police services rounding up people, on a regular basis and shipping them off to detention camps, for interrogation etc., I would become alarmed.

I read United States newspapers, and follow United States television news programmes and have yet to note any reports, of visible abuse of the the rights of people not to be abused by their government.

That President Obama has extended the legislation does suggest that he is happy that The Patriot Act continues to be needed to defend the people of the United States, from those who would attempt to extend their terrorist actions onto American soil.

I have carefully read the contributions of all on this thread but have yet to note any one poster reporting abuses that would question the legitimacy of The Patriot Act.

 

[kallipolis]

debates should be reserved for CEP so i will leave a familiar quote



If you dont feel abused, then you must not live in America.

If you feel abused then share your reasons for feeling abused.