Patriot Act Quietly Renewed Without Dissent

[evanrick]

If you feel abused then share your reasons for feeling abused.

Not the point, you don't need a reason to be patriotic anymore than you need a reason to support the patriot act.
Besides, I have the right as an American citizen to say what I want and disagree with my elected government. 170+ Members of congress voted against the act, do you think they are being abused as well?

 

[kallipolis]

Not the point, you don't need a reason to be patriotic anymore than you need a reason to support the patriot act.
Besides, I have the right as an American citizen to say what I want and disagree with my elected government. 170+ Members of congress voted against the act, do you think they are being abused as well?

No one here is questioning your right to speak your mind. You are so doing.

I quote your words:

If you dont feel abused, then you must not live in America.

There is an implication in these words that those who live in America, feel abused. Please share your feelings for feeling abused by the provisions of The Patriot Act.

I am endeavouring to establish how The Patriot Act impacts on you, in view of your opinion that questions the legitimacy of said legislation.

 

[evanrick]

No one here is questioning your right to speak your mind. You are so doing.

I quote your words:

If you dont feel abused, then you must not live in America.

There is an implication in these words that those who live in America, feel abused. Please share your feelings for feeling abused by the provisions of The Patriot Act.

I am endeavouring to establish how The Patriot Act impacts on you, in view of your opinion that questions the legitimacy of said legislation.

Its being used for political purposes, the idea of a shamed warmonger, George Bush, to paint his political opponents as weak on terror, to demonize those that disagree with Bush and the GOP.

The Patriot Act is the embodiment of Republican neo-conservativsm, the reason John McCain, a "war hero" was humiliated in 2008, for the spread of distrust the Bush presidency caused with America and its allies.

Its not what is contained inside the Patriot Act that I feel abused by, its what it stands for, what it represents, what George Bush, Dick Cheney, Sarah Palin and the rest of the neo-cons represent, the perpetuation of fear and lies, to prey on the weak-minded for personal and political gain, continuous war at the expense of lives and livelihoods, torture, the list goes on.

 

[kallipolis]

Its being used for political purposes, the idea of a shamed warmonger, George Bush, to paint his political opponents as weak on terror, to demonize those that disagree with Bush and the GOP.

The Patriot Act is the embodiment of Republican neo-conservativsm, the reason John McCain, a "war hero" was humiliated in 2008, for the spread of distrust the Bush presidency caused with America and its allies.

Its not what is contained inside the Patriot Act that I feel abused by, its what it stands for, what it represents.

Then I may understand that you do not feel abused by The Patriot Act, rather by what this legislation represents.

In your opinion what does The Patriot Act, stand for or represent that has generated your anti Patriot Act contributions on this thread.

You may appreciate I am endeavouring to understand the specifics of your thoughts that contribute to your feelings on this matter.

I have noted your feelings on George W. Bush.

Do you believe that The Patriot Act serves no useful purpose, other than to represent the appearance that government is attempting to protect its people.

Why do you believe that President Obama extended the life of The Patriot Act?

Should we presume that Barack Obama is imitating the thinking, and actions of George W. Bush by extending the life of The Patriot Act?

 

[evanrick]

Then I may understand that you do not feel abused by The Patriot Act, rather by what this legislation represents.

In your opinion what does The Patriot Act, stand for or represent that has generated your anti Patriot Act contributions on this thread.

You may appreciate I am endeavouring to understand the specifics of your thoughts that contribute to your feelings on this matter.

I have noted your feelings on George W. Bush.

Do you believe that The Patriot Act serves no useful purpose, other than to represent the appearance that government is attempting to protect its people.

Why do you believe that President Obama extended the life of The Patriot Act?

Should we presume that Barack Obama is imitating the thinking, and actions of George W. Bush by extending the life of The Patriot Act?

I don't believe Obama extended the life of the Patriot Act, now you are just putting words in my mouth.

If you need clarification, refer to the constitution.

And hes not imitating the thinking of George Bush, as a constitutional law professor, Barack Obama knows better than anyone that his signature is not valid.

Why does my opposition to the act cause you so much interest?

 

[kallipolis]

I don't believe Obama extended the life of the Patriot Act, now you are just putting words in my mouth.

If you need clarification, refer to the constitution.

And hes not imitating the thinking of George Bush, as a constitutional law professor, Barack Obama knows better than anyone that his signature is not valid.

Why does my opposition to the act cause you so much interest?

I refer to your words:

Obama did sign the patriot act authorization, but his hand never touched the paper.

That President Obama uses an auto-pen to electronically sign legislation does not invalidate the authenticity of his signature. If it did then Congress, et al would be impeaching President Obama, and the anti Obama media commentators would be screaming their objections.

The provisions of The Patriot Act remain law by virtue of President Obama's signature extending the life of said legislation.

I appreciate that your opposition to The Patriot Act is one of principle.

I always enjoy reading the thoughts of the person behind the opinion.

 

[evanrick]

I refer to your words:

Obama did sign the patriot act authorization, but his hand never touched the paper.

That President Obama uses an auto-pen to electronically sign legislation does not invalidate the authenticity of his signature. If it did then Congress, et al would be impeaching President Obama, and the anti Obama media commentators would be screaming their objections.

Which isn't constitutional. If you need clarification refer to the constitution. I wont debate someone who views the constitution "when it suits their needs".

The provisions of The Patriot Act remain law by virtue of President Obama's signature extending the life of said legislation.

No, sorry to break it to you but they don't. If congress isn't in town, the law goes bye-bye.

If we cant agree on facts, we wont agree on anything. A common pitfall for the GOP. Sometimes the truth is hell.

 

[kallipolis]

Which isn't constitutional. If you need clarification refer to the constitution. I wont debate someone who views the constitution "when it suits their needs".

No, sorry to break it to you but they don't. If congress isn't in town, the law goes bye-bye.

If we cant agree on facts, we wont agree on anything. A common pitfall for the GOP. Sometimes the truth is hell.

I am not an expert on constitutional law to be able to offer an opinion. It is my understanding neither are you an expert on constitutional law.

Otherwise your comments are at odds with the vote in The Senate, and of the POTUS to renew The Patriot Act.

Thanks for the exchanges, but must go to my work.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/05/27/the_lwot_patriot_act_renewed_just_before_deadline

I quote:

Patriot Act provisions renewed just before deadline
President Obama signed a four-year extension of three controversial Patriot Act provisions into law just before the midnight deadline last night, after Senate leaders made a deal with Republican Sen. Rand Paul to allow several proposed amendments to be put up for a vote, including one to make it more difficult for authorities to obtain firearms purchase records (LAT, Washington Post, AFP, Bloomberg, WSJ, CBS/AP). The provisions, which passed the Senate 72-23 and then the House 250-153, allow for "roving" wiretaps of multiple phone lines, the investigation of non-American "lone wolf" suspects not linked to any extremist organization, and the collection of all "tangible" items linked to a terrorist investigation, including business and other records (AP).

 

[evanrick]

fine with me, but your comments are at odds with the constitution. now you are arguing semantics for the sake of arguing. the constitution dictates the rules under which the senate, the potus and the supreme court operate.

 

[barnbuddy]

it's funny how the tea party folks don't oppose this aspect of "big gov't'

I wonder how much the super security state costs?

 

[vforvendetta]

it's funny how the tea party folks don't oppose this aspect of "big gov't'

I wonder how much the super security state costs?

I think the "tea party" opposes this in much larger numbers than you think - in fact, 'tea party' legislators like Rand Paul oppose it very aggressively in Congress. The Patriot Act is wildly unpopular in most sectors of the American public, both liberal and conservative - most conservatives were very well fooled at first, but many of them have been educated on the matter since that point (even if it took nearly a decade).

Now to the whole issue about the autopen - yes, I agree it was a violation of the Constitution to 'sign' it in such a manner, but let's face it - Obama would have resigned it had it been flown there anyway. He signed it, this disgrace is now his blame alongside all the other crooked, police state politicians who supported it. A real disappointment, and definitely not the "change" I hoped for when he campaigned.

 

[hotatlboi]

Once government gets new power, they rarely give it up.

 

[StationToStation]

Amazing how Obama is just like or worse as bush.

 

[brl18uk]

Amazing how Obama is just like or worse as bush.

I don't think it's a matter of being like or worse than, or even better than Bush.

I think what it shows is that Obama was elected by riding on the popular sentiment that anything Bush did was terrible, wrong, reprehensible.

Now that Obama is in office, he sees that there were some good reasons for some things Bush did and it would be harmful or impractical to discontinue these actions. This is why some have been disillusioned with Obama for not keeping his campaign promises.

It's not as simple when you are actually making the decisions.

 

[stevexxx]

I think the Patriot Act is somewhat necessary though

 

[evanrick]

It's not as simple when you are actually making the decisions.

That may be true but he is conceding his power and mandate each time he perpetuates Bush era policies.

Obama has no choice but to be an insider at this point, anything he does that appears to be "anti-American" will only feed into the perception that he wasn't born here.

I don't know when Obama will be prepared to stand up for every decision he makes, since its clear he is taking the easier path for making some very bad decisions.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

weather ans nature not patriotic ans banned forms a entry

ha

OBAMA you ans world other leadin fools ans ya cultures and da populations ya screwed up fa eons real got talent

HAAAAAAAAAAAA

real life a wizzzz haaaaaaaaa

 

[jizzeater]

I think the "tea party" opposes this in much larger numbers than you think - in fact, 'tea party' legislators like Rand Paul oppose it very aggressively in Congress.

Yes sir! Rand as well as his father Ron, along with Mike Lee, Roscoe Bartlett, Rob Bishop, Paul Broun, Tom Graves, Kenny Marchant, Tom McClintock, and Denny Rehberg. There were probably others, but you get the point.

 

[NineOfClubs]

Did anybody really think it wouldn't be renewed? Each administration is a continuation of the previous, with a few social issues used as bait to stir up controversy. The political system in the US, at the federal level at least, is in my view a complete failure.

^What he said.

Pretty much, whoever is "in charge" seems to be taking orders from the same master, certainly not from the American public.

 

[kallipolis]

^What he said.

Pretty much, whoever is "in charge" seems to be taking orders from the same master, certainly not from the American public.

Who is this master? Any guesses?

We should beware of conspiracy theories, or of assuming that a sitting president is unable to think for himself, or even change his mind after assuming office as POTUS.