Peaceful Religion of Islam? Not.

[Kulindahr]

But this is OK fabulouslyghetto because of his mom...somehow.

Not much for reading comprehension, are you?

Or maybe you just like fallacies.....

Go back and read the posts involved!

 

[KrisHawkXXX]

As the old adage goes, "Simple minds are satisfied by simplistic explanations."

Just like the confederate states of America and past slavery... People live in the dark and thats why so much racism exists and hatred towards groups of people.

 

[Kulindahr]

If one understands by violence 'rough or immoderate vehemence'. then Islam is totally opposed to it. The perspective of Islam is based upon moderation and its morality is grounded upon the principle of avoiding extremes and keeping to the golden mean. Nothing is more alien to the Islamic perspective than vehemence, not to say immoderate vehemence. Even if force is to be used, it must be on the basis of moderation.

The goal of Islam is the attainment of peace but this peace can only be experienced through that exertion (jihad) and the use of force which begins with the disciplining of ourselves and leads to living in the world in accordance with the dicta of the shar'ia.

The use of force can only be condoned in the sense of undoing the violation of our own nature and the chaos which has resulted from the loss of equilibrium. But such a use of force is not in reality violence as usually understood. It is the exertion of human will and effort in the direction of conforming to the Will of God and in surrendering the human will to the divine Will. From this surrender (taslim) comes peace (salam), hence islam, and only through this islam can the violence inbred within the nature of fallen man be controlled and the beast within subdued so that man lives at peace with himself and the world because he lives at peace with God.

And this of course is the problem. It is very easy for fundamentalists (who as you say, do not represent a religion as a whole) to alter the use of the word "force" and to misinterpret it in ways that condone terrorism, in order to achieve their own ends of course. And this happens all the time with religious fundamentalists, including yes Muslim fundamentalists. I spent last summer in Iran and I met many Muslims who were peace-loving, who criticized their leader for some of his crazy comments (the way we criticize Bush), and who were genuinely confused by the way the Western World interprets words and phrases from the Qur'an. A vulgar interpretation that terrorist Muslim fundamentalists also support.

That's laughable.

Shar'ia has little to do with peace, unless you think slaves were at peace; it has to do with regimentation, male superiority, and Islamic superiority -- even Drew, when he was here, agreed with that.

And "force" is a concept lifted out and made generic and theoretical. It's not a term at issue here; what's at issue is the collection of verses which command slaughter, shedding blood, terrorizing... they don't say "force", they say those other things.
So the Islamic fundamentalists are "misrepresenting" nothing; they're reading what the words plainly say, and doing what they command. I'll grant that some are taken out of context; the orders of Mohamed to terrorize certain Jews so they can slaughter them all, women and children included, are meant for that particular battle. But even so, they give a picture of the Prophet, whom others are to emulate, and that picture is of a terrorist, murderer, robber, and liar.

And this doesn't come from any "Western interpretations", it comes from Muslims themselves (just watch the movie Fitna).

 

[Kulindahr]

Yet you do just that. And quite frequently (the zeal with which you pounce on every thread that has anything to do with Islam proves that). You guys are something else. You wanna be able to make every offensive generalization about an entire faith and hold it to a standard that you don't hold others (not to mention talk about the literal meaning of a text in whose official language most of you are not scholars), but you don't want any of the negative associations that come with it. Please. At least have the balls to admit that you guys just don't like Muslims. Start a thread. If the "I Hate Sand Nigger" title makes even some of you wince, then call it "Muslim Bashers" or whatever you want. Just do it, and you can all post there instead of starting a thousand different threads to bash the same religion over and over. I promise you you'll get a lot of support from certain people on this board.

It won't make you any more noble or any more right, but it would be more honest (and less tiresome).

Why you think I bash Muslims is... interesting.

I guess you agree with Alfie that anyone who approves of anything that Bush did hates America, too? Because that's the "logic" you're using: that to make a statement about something in a class is to represent the entire class. You're engaging in a simple fallacy, that does things like this: Dr. Q is a nuclear scientist; Dr. Q wants to bomb our enemies; therefore all nuclear scientists want to bomb our enemies. You're just doing it in a slightly different form -- and a worse one. I haven't attacked any Muslims at all, save the terrorists (Mohamed included). So you syllogism is more like: the Soviet Union held to the Communist Manifesto; therefore everyone in the Soviet Union held to the Communist Manifesto. That's patently untrue, not just because of the logical fallacy, but because the Soviet Union collapsed due significantly to internal opposition from people who didn't hold to the Communist Manifesto.

Now, in the context of this discussion, I've been addressing the Communist Manifesto, and those who hold to it -- except that in this case, there's a problem, because the Quran is held to by all Muslims, and it teaches terrorism, slaughter, etc. Why people want to ignore that fact is beyond me -- and that's not a "Western interpretation", it's what is said by Muslims (again, just watch Fitna).

 

[fireside]

This thread is a shining example of why I'm an atheist.

 

[HenryReardon]

Aw! Poor baby. The US is getting over run with brown people. Boo hoo.

Guess what? The 1950's history of being a straight, white, suburban, male in America is no longer an automatic ticket to success and mandate to earn an above wage job. With every passing year all that matters to companies isn't if you are white, black, brown, or yellow. Gay or straight. Married, divorced or single. Suburban or urbane. What matters is your ability to do the job, having the most up-to-date skill sets and education. And having a workforce that is broadly diverse so as to maximize the talents of everyone into one dynamic force to be reckoned with.

Don't like it? Then get more education, as so many others on this thread have clucked that Muslims should.

.

None of which has anything to do with militant and radical Islam. You seem to be obsessed with the subject of race when race has nothing to do with the problem.

Thank you for proving my point about the usual suspects.

 

[Kulindahr]

This site has a small handful of right wing neo-con racists. The same posters who are so "knowledgeable" about how violent the Qur’an & Islam is have never spent any time in a Muslim country, two went to faux bible colleges for their degrees, and their posts are interchangeable with each others. It's the same thing over and over again.

I've asked before just who on this forum went to "faux Bible colleges" -- I have yet to bump into anyone who went to any kind of "Bible college".

Spending time in a Muslim country is, BTW, irrelevant: the issue is Islam, not the people in any particular country. And Islam rests on the Quran, and according to preachers who are Muslim and who do read the Quran in the original, Islam requires the slaughter of innocent women and children, terror against one's enemies, and more.

You wouldn't get so upset at hearing that if you'd actually check out what these Muslim teachers say (again... watch Fitna).

As the old adage goes, "Simple minds are satisfied by simplistic explanations."

X-tians = GOOD. PEACE LOVING! Muslims = BAD. VIOLENT! United States = RIGHT! Them = WRONG! Solution? Why of course, invade their country and kill them!

That first line describes your posts here: you haven't actually bothered to understand what others are saying, you're just doing a knee-jerk reaction based on the same fallacy that Nik has been using, namely, that to point out an infelicitous truth about a book is to hate people.

That you can engage in such simple-minded chants as the last bit in your mpost demonstrates that you aren't interested in listening -- which is just exactly the problem.

 

[TX-Beau]

Yeah, was gonna post, but really, what's the point. Maybe later.

 

[TX-Beau]

You could always be a Taoist.

How about a Unitarian?

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

When will people get it through their heads that the Bible is not a recipe book?

Can't the same be said of the Quran which is as debated as the bible? I know plenty of Muslims who don't agree with extremism, isn't it possible they're overlooking the outrageous verses the same way Chrisians overlook the bible's outrageous verses?

You post on a website where men discuss sexually abusing other men who are asleep, does that criminalize you by default? The "Quran" argument seems based on the notion that to be a Muslim you HAVE to follow the book verbatim.

 

[naked gent]

That said, I'm an equal opportunity criticizer. If interested, I'll talk to you about how Confucianism killed a lot of Chinese because of their obedience to the Emperor and the environment because nature was meant to me tamed.

Or the Hindus with their caste system.

Or the fact that Shinto is the reason why women can't hike/climb on certain Japanese mountains.

Or how Tibet wasn't much a fan of human rights even before it was invaded by China.

It does seem the one common thing the above share is people organizing and once they do then look out.

And it doesn't much matter the banner the organize under.

The irony underlying this thread is that islam is violent and christianity is peaceful and we peaceful christians had better be prepared to confront those violent muslims or we'll regret it.

Sounds like some are looking for a reason to quit that peaceful christian crap don't it?

 

[KrisHawkXXX]

This thread is a shining example of why I'm an atheist.

thats not a reason to be an atheist. There are just really ignorant people in all groups of people in terms of religion... race, nationalities, and sexual orientations. But none of those groups are actually bad. When a few number of people do bad things.. they represent the whole group.. and thats not fair. Religion is supposed to help give you some guidance and make your life a little bit easier like a river flowing peacefully.... but its NOT supposed to RUN YOUR LIFE and get to the point where your whole life revolves around your religion. People who live word by word from what the religion teaches shows they are not doing it for their god or themselves.. they do it out of fear because they are confused and have low self-esteem

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

People who live word by word from what the religion teaches shows they are not doing it for their god or themselves.. they do it out of fear because they are confused and have low self-esteem

Damn. One point for Madonna.

 

[KrisHawkXXX]

Damn. One point for Madonna.

thank you hon

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Since the number of Muslims was brought up, something-billion, let's get into THAT, more facts. What percentage of the world's Muslims are extremist? If it was a majority I'd think we'd be seeing more action than we've been seeing. Even half a billion is a sizeable enough portion to do some considerable damage.

 

[HenryReardon]

Since the number of Muslims was brought up, something-billion, let's get into THAT, more facts. What percentage of the world's Muslims are extremist? If it was a majority I'd think we'd be seeing more action than we've been seeing. Even half a billion is a sizeable enough portion to do some considerable damage.

That information was posted.

The answer to your question depends upon who you ask - different sources give answers ranging from 5% to 10%, which would be somewhere between 50 and 120 million people, more or less.

That's a LOT of raving lunatics - all bent upon destroying Western civilization.

AND, it doesn't include the fence-sitters who could easily be persuaded to act violently.

 

[Ekim23]

This is ridicilous

how many threads bout islam, violence, problems and stuff are gonna be created

people who actually think islam = violence are soooo following what medias are telling them

Seriously, when u meet a muslim, are u like "oh my god he's gonna kill me, or maybe he holds a bomb in his pocket" ahaha LMAO thats soo insane

well, I think some of u already said what I think so i wont say it again

But still... being violent has nothing to do with the religion..

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

The answer to your question depends upon who you ask - different sources give answers ranging from 5% to 10%, which would be somewhere between 50 and 120 million people, more or less.

So what's the solution? Round 'em up and stick 'em in a camp?

That's a LOT of raving lunatics - all bent upon destroying Western civilization.

There are a lot of raving lunatics in western civlization as well, though they seem to get a pass on their lunacy.

 

[KrisHawkXXX]

Exactly there are violent CHRISTIANS!!! Good and bad in everyone

 

[TX-Beau]

I had a cheeseburger for lunch today.

Fries or onion rings