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Pissed off at the control that the health insurance industry has on the US government

It still has a long ways to go. Once the bill gets to conference, hopefully, the public option will be put back in.

The corporations own the government.
 
Tauzin was chairman of the powerful House Energy and Commerce Committee with jurisdiction over drug companies. He helped shepherd through Congress a major reform of Medicare — which for the first time — provided seniors with prescription drug coverage.... But drug companies were the big winners. They stood to make a huge windfall - all the more so, because Billy Tauzin and his allies in Congress saw to it that Medicare would have to pay top dollar for the drugs.

I asked about this (bold portion) in another thread quite some time ago and didn't really receive a suitable answer. I had referred to Wilford Brimley's commercials in which 'Liberty Mutual' bills Medicare directly and I was curious if they billed Medicare for the same amount that the average Joe would have to pay.

This seems to answer it rather adequately.
 
Problem: Universal Healthcare = $3.6 Trillion Budget.

Do we have that money? No.

Why should people who have healthcare and are paying for it themselve, have to drop everything and pay for people who don't have healthcare by means of higher taxes?

I don't want the government telling me what doctor/hospitals I can or can't go to. Let's not even begin to mention the queues.


"44,789 americans die every year because they have no health insurance"

That's a pretty precise number. Every year? 44,789?

Using data on adult health and mortality from the National Center for Health Statistics, which is a part of the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Kronick concludes that the Institute of Medicine's estimate (or any that replicates its methodology, such as Dorn's) is "almost certainly incorrect."


There is something drastically wrong with the health care system in America, its just this doesn't seem like a better option.

:]
 
^ Well for starters, not spending a crap load of money we don't have on something that probably won't even be better.....
 
You've got a big hole in your reasoning there. Every developed country on earth EXCEPT the United States has universal healthcare in one form or another. Also, ALL of they pay less than we do.

With your complaint about not wanting to be taxed to pay for "other" peoples healthcare, tells me you have yet to encounter a serious problem with your insurance company. I promise you, it's only a matter of time before they let you down. Paying taxes for healthcare isnt for "others" it's for everyone, that includes you. We can sit here and be a bunch of narcissists and continue to watch our healthcare system implode, or we can come together as a united nation again and fix the damn thing. Anything is better than this system we've got. Anyone in congress or elsewhere who says "The American healthcare system is the best in the world" is a moron who has been living under a stone for the past 50 years, and has no clue about what goes on elsewhere in the developed world. In Europe, they have a few different approaches to universal healthcare. In all of their systems, you CANNOT be turned away as you can here. In all of their systems, you are GUARANTEED the RIGHT to see a doctor - seeing a doctor in America is a luxury for the rich who can afford it. Also, in all of their systems, they pay less than what we do - around half as much roughly. You cannot build an argument that you don't want to be taxed for the benefit of others because you will benefit every bit as much.

What would you rather do? In the United States, we pay around 15-16% of our GDP on healthcare to the private market. In Europe, they pay 7-10% of their GDP on healthcare, to their various approaches. I would rather pay $1000 per month to the government for a guaranteed socialist healthcare system than the same $1000 per month to a private healthcare insurance company. Why? The government has no profit motive - they seek only to break even - income matches expenses. The private industry on the other hand, seeks to turn a profit, and raises costs and puts the difference in their own pockets to the tune of millions of dollars. Every penny they put in their own pocket is a penny that wont be used to treat YOU when you get sick.

My insurance company has let me down, and I am a fierce enemy of for-profit healthcare as a result of it. The private market should never be allowed to have any control whatsoever over peoples lives. (EDIT: To clarify, it should have no bearing on who lives and who dies, but it does with our current healthcare system) But, the free, private healthcare system we have now is systematically denying care for millions of people, myself included, and people die and go bankrupt because of it. For-profit healthcare is hazardous to one's health and livliehood.. The profits MUST be taken out of the system if we're ever going to have a good system. As long as there is profit in the system, you can't trust your doctor. If your doctor orders treatment or a scan of some kind, how do you know that you really need the treatment? Often, it's just the doctor ordering a useless procedure for the sole purpose of bringing in some cash.

I'm at a crossroads in my own life, and I've made the decision that I must do what is best for me, and damn everyone else. What's best for me? Socialist healthcare. I refuse to fight the insurance companies tooth and nail to get them to do their fucking jobs. The way I see things, it's only a matter of time before I get sick, and my insurance company refuses to pay for life-saving treatment - they've already refused treatment for a very important quality-of-life treatment. Socialist healthcare does not turn people away like private market healthcare does. If socialist healthcare doesn't come to America within the next couple of years, I'm buying a one-way plane ticket at the very first opportunity I get, and I'm going to go to a country where they already have a profit-less, world-class socialist healthcare system where you can trust your doctor is doing anything that is in your best interest and doesnt try to do worthless crap just to benefit himself. I refuse to give my money to a bunch of greedy insurance & medical corporate executives. My life, and my quality-of-life are more important than their multi-million dollar estate, their Rolls Royce, their private jets.

In short, healthcare should be run as a human service - a mission of mercy -- not the current business enterprise that it currently is. In other countries, where healthcare is run as a service, not a business - it costs less. You cannot argue that we should defer healthcare reform based on cost. It costs more to do nothing than to act.
 
I'm not saying universal health care is bad, I'm just saying its another step up to socialism (Um, which is bad imo.)

Obama hasn't really engendered much trust since his election. Neither has his health care bill as a matter of fact.

The basis of US government is the idea of minimalist government intervention. Laissez-faire? Yup. Accepting the Universal health care system that Obama is proposing, takes away from our freedoms. The US is like the parent that realizes their child is grown up. Socialism is like a 40 year virgin still living at home, having everything handed to him.

Sure I agree that the health care system is horrible.

Just, jumping at every halfhearted chance to change it isn't going to make it better.

If he proposed a lower budget, and wiser fiscal accountability, I'd be all over that shit. But now we just got Republicans claiming that it's going to kill off old people and insure illegal immigrants. Now that is very very very extreme and ludicrous, but everything still has to be taken with a grain of salt.
 
The basis of US government is the idea of minimalist government intervention. Laissez-faire? Yup. Accepting the Universal health care system that Obama is proposing, takes away from our freedoms. The US is like the parent that realizes their child is grown up. Socialism is like a 40 year virgin still living at home, having everything handed to him.

If your kid was dieing you would try and help him/her no matter how old. The US isn't doing that, is it? It is basically saying if you can't afford it go fuck yourself. Nothing like a parent at all. Everyone needs help at sometime and not everyone can afford someone to help them.


And the other system isn't like having everything handed to you, everyone chips in and everyone gets help.

Well that is the way I see it but I don't know much on the subject.

When people are talking about this, the people who don't like it just bitch about how awful it is but they don't say how they want it improved.
 
I'm not saying universal health care is bad, I'm just saying its another step up to socialism (Um, which is bad imo.)

I can't speak for other countries, but Canadian health care is payed for through salary contributions made by the citizens much the same as Employment Insurance contributions or Canada Pension Plan contributions or Workman's Compensation contributions.
 
I'm not saying universal health care is bad, I'm just saying its another step up to socialism (Um, which is bad imo.)

And what's so wrong with looking out for eachother especially with something as important as health?

I watched a great aunt have to sell her home and work well past 65 after her husband suffered a stroke and the insurance wouldn't pay all the bills

It's about compassion and fairness
 
If your kid was dieing you would try and help him/her no matter how old. The US isn't doing that, is it? It is basically saying if you can't afford it go fuck yourself. Nothing like a parent at all. Everyone needs help at sometime and not everyone can afford someone to help them.


And the other system isn't like having everything handed to you, everyone chips in and everyone gets help.

Well that is the way I see it but I don't know much on the subject.

When people are talking about this, the people who don't like it just bitch about how awful it is but they don't say how they want it improved.

Everyone chips in and gets mediocre help, I had a friend who through Canada's universal health system had to wait 3 years to get treatment for some health problem because it wasn't a medical emergency. In America, you can get treatment whenever you want because people aren't taking advantage of it being more or less free. In many socialist countries there are queues. It's not universal health care will MAGICALLY solve your problems. You can't chose what doctors you want, you have to wait, you have less options and you're paying for sub-par care.

Now I'm not an expert in this by far, so I don't know of any other solutions off the top of my head. What I can say is that Universal Healthcare will benefit certain classes of society more than others. If there's that disconnect, I'm not sure that's really just.

You can't demand that others suffer because you can't afford health care. Now in a perfect society where everyone shared and nothing costs anything, that would work. But it's not a perfect world and that's why socialism and communism don't work.

Sure, I feel its vital to help those in financial distress, but giving them free health care, makes other classes take a hit to their quality of insurance at their expense. Tell me how that's "fair".
 
Everyone chips in and gets mediocre help, I had a friend who through Canada's universal health system had to wait 3 years to get treatment for an ear infection because it wasn't a medical emergency.

Oh please! And you believe this :rolleyes:

I came home from Mexico 2 years ago with an ear infection. I went to an emergency clinic (on a Saturday) and was treated and on my way in an hour

And no out of pocket expenses
 
Oh please! And you believe this :rolleyes:

I came home from Mexico 2 years ago with an ear infection. I went to an emergency clinic (on a Saturday) and was treated and on my way in an hour

And no out of pocket expenses

meh, that's what he told me. Maybe it wasn't an ear infection. But it was something that need to be treated.... I'm not really sure.

:]
 
meh, that's what he told me. Maybe it wasn't an ear infection. But it was something that need to be treated.... I'm not really sure.

:]

Trust me, my friend, I live here. The Canadian system isn't perfect but my family and friends have done well by it. If you're sick you get the treatment you need.

Note to hungrybrownbear: Don't post if you're not sure. Some people will believe what you said
 
Need treatment, get treatment that is the Canadian System. I have never waited, and I just finished 4 days of IV therapy.

The US cost on that would have been $2760.00

I paid $0.00. And no co-pay.
 
Trust me, my friend, I live here. The Canadian system isn't perfect but my family and friends have done well by it. If you're sick you get the treatment you need.

Note to hungrybrownbear: Don't post if you're not sure. Some people will believe what you said

sowwy.
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hey why isn't this in the politics thread?
 

Nothing pisses me off more than someone posting something as fact and cannot back it up

hey why isn't this in the politics thread?

Because the OP posted it in HT. It isn't necessarily political. It's just a good, healthy (no pun) debate
 
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