Pope Francis meets secretly with Kim Davis on US trip

[evanrick]

this meeting between pope Francis and Kim Davis tainted his entire trip to the USA, Boehners use of the Pope to 'absolve' himself of his crimes against the American people, and will only sow distrust towards the catholic church. of course Obama, and many other progressives know this, but we also know too few care about such double standards of morality because they are so wrapped up in their own ideologies and religions to notice.

 

[kallipolis]

this meeting between pope Francis and Kim Davis tainted his entire trip to the USA,

I will agree that from the perspective of the critic looking to scapegoat Francis (just for being the leader of a Christian church), your observation is valid....but of course, that Francis was poorly counselled, by American bishops into meeting Kim Davis should not prevent us from ignoring his work in progress slowly persuading the more conservative members of his church to become much more aware of the gospel message to not judge, or discriminate against people whose sexual orientation is inherant to who we are as human beings.

 

[kallipolis]

a) Well, if you suppose that in the USA "the left" or "the right" are each something homogeneous, then your political geography doesn't work, unfortunately.

b) Both your "reasons": "it would take legislation", and "there's no motive to change it". If one shall accept this lame excuses from the worldly side, then you also should accept the very same excuses from the Church, shouldn't you?

You're up against a mindset, prevalent here that needs a scape goat to vent their fury at their perceived victimhood....

On much more positive note Francis has initiated a change in thinking that enables a debate to grow, that will eventually bring about a change in the way the official church treats gay couples.

 

[Spensed]

a) Well, if you suppose that in the USA "the left" or "the right" are each something homogeneous, then your political geography doesn't work, unfortunately.

b) Both your "reasons": "it would take legislation", and "there's no motive to change it". If one shall accept this lame excuses from the worldly side, then you also should accept the very same excuses from the Church, shouldn't you?

Left and right are generalizations, covering wide spectrums of opinion. They don't have to be homogeneous to support the distinctions between them.

As a result of marriage equality, "lame excuses" about marriage from the worldly or Church side are moot. The secular side doesn't care because it has the option of a civil or religious marriage ceremony. The Church side may object to gay marriage, but it can continue to have its religious marriage ceremonies recognized by the the state.

 

[Spensed]

On much more positive note Francis has initiated a change in thinking that enables a debate to grow, that will eventually bring about a change in the way the official church treats gay couples.

Wishful thinking. Who knows whether the Pope's more tolerant and inclusive statements and attitude will bring about change or reaction. Even his own statements are ambiguous. So, a tad premature to get the party dress out just yet.

 

[otters]

You're up against a mindset, prevalent here that needs a scape goat to vent their fury at their perceived victimhood....

The Pontiff is their scapegoat, but why are they afraid of him, since he's abroad?

I'm convinced they know he's an extremely powerful warlock, one understands, who has many apprentices basically everywhere, and yes, he has THE BOMB, and a white gown, and SAUDI ARABIA's oil and military alliance, and so on, so of course, one must actually be afraid of him.

But I guess, the more important reason is:
They're much more afraid of their autochthonous Protestant mumbo-jumbos who apparently typically pretend to be members of worldly national governments — since many of them demand to be addressed as "ministers".

 

[Spensed]

^ The other view, of course, is that the Pope's critics are:

1. Just pointing out the Church's continuing teachings against gays, notwithstanding the Pope's still ambiguous attempts at inclusion; and

2. Taking exception to the Pope's meeting with an anti-gay bigot in the specific context of a papal state visit.

The first point is just the truth. The second is now supported by the Vatican itself, which has expressed regret at the meeting and suggested that the Pope was duped. Again just the truth.

As I say, like battered wives, the Church's gay apologists are convinced the Church loves them really. Poor dears.

 

[otters]

Your belittlement

Thank you T-Rexx and bankside.

The apologists for the Church's anti-gay positions are full of wishful thinking.

Like battered wives, they believe the Church really loves gays and that the timetable for change can be best determined by the batterer. Little or no criticism can be tolerated.

That attitute itself is just another aspect of the problem.

of battered wives is obnoxious. Your REPEATED belittlement

^ The other view, of course, is that the Pope's critics are:

1. Just pointing out the Church's continuing teachings against gays, notwithstanding the Pope's still ambiguous attempts at inclusion; and

2. Taking exception to the Pope's meeting with an anti-gay bigot in the specific context of a papal state visit.

The first point is just the truth. The second is now supported by the Vatican itself, which has expressed regret at the meeting and suggested that the Pope was duped. Again just the truth.

As I say, like battered wives, the Church's gay apologists are convinced the Church loves them really. Poor dears.

of battered wives shows what sort of person you are.

 

[xboxfan34]

I'm not apologizing for any church, I'm just driving home the point that Kim Davis is who we should REALLY be pissed off at.

She is the stereotypical hypochristian, professes herself to be a "force for good", yet is willing to flat out lie that pope Francis endorsed her views to her.

 

[Draven]

Are people actually up in arms that religious zealots would be remotely "homophobic" and/or "anti-gay" or are people just reacting to their rose-colored glasses cracking in half? Religions have never been pro-gay and they never will be, especially in good ol' Christian Amerikwa where it's okay to fuck your sister but not okay for two men to get married.

 

[Vitamin]

I would love to see the Republican reaction to a County Clerk who refused to issue liens on religious grounds. See if their interpretation of the First Amendment still applies.

 

[Spensed]

Your belittlement

of battered wives is obnoxious. Your REPEATED belittlement

of battered wives shows what sort of person you are.

Please don't feel demeaned. One doesn't denigrate victims by pointing out the syndrome they suffer.

 

[otters]

Please don't feel demeaned. One doesn't denigrate victims by pointing out the syndrome they suffer.

Arguing with you, Spensed, is like playing chess with pigeons: No matter how well I play chess, the pigeons will knock down all the chessmen, poop on the board, and strut around as if they had won.

 

[eastofeden]

I am more surprised that anyone is surprised...that is the real story for me.

I applaud his position on global warming.....

He has made his position known all along about gays...and his opinion is in line with the Davis woman...I see no controversy here at all....

Personally...I think it is a blessing that the Catholic Church does not embrace us...we should be afraid when/if it does....

Back to Global Warming....

 

[evanrick]

I am more surprised that anyone is surprised...that is the real story for me.

I applaud his position on global warming.....

He has made his position known all along about gays...and his opinion is in line with the Davis woman...I see no controversy here at all....

Personally...I think it is a blessing that the Catholic Church does not embrace us...we should be afraid when/if it does....

Back to Global Warming....

 

[otters]

Let me, again, point out that being obsessed with virtually ALL major religious bodies' stance on "fornication vs. marriage" (and particularly the Roman Catholic Church's stance) is completely POINTLESS.

Because: there are much MUCH IMPORTANT topics, namely the WORDLY authorities' stance.

E.g.: http://www.justusboys.com/forum/threads/442079-Court-case-on-pension-rights-for-gay-couples

 

[Spensed]

Arguing with you, Spensed, is like playing chess with pigeons: No matter how well I play chess, the pigeons will knock down all the chessmen, poop on the board, and strut around as if they had won.

The critics of the Pope's meeting with a homophobic bigot during a papal state visit have been vindicated by the Vatican.

The criticism itself very likely elicited the Vatican's ultimate response.

I'm not sure that more remains of my main point than that.

 

[evanrick]

im just sayin liberals shouldnt embrace this pope just because he says a few politically popular things, if anything, Francis has probably done immeasurable damage to the c.c. i dont buy apology arguments ever.

 

[Spensed]

Let me, again, point out that being obsessed with virtually ALL major religious bodies' stance on "fornication vs. marriage" (and particularly the Roman Catholic Church's stance) is completely POINTLESS.

Because: there are much MUCH IMPORTANT topics, namely the WORDLY authorities' stance.

E.g.: http://www.justusboys.com/forum/threads/442079-Court-case-on-pension-rights-for-gay-couples

So pointless that you can't stay away from the topic.

Sure the secular battle continues, but to many people, especially gay Catholics, it's important that their voices against the Church's positions and actions be heard.

One can argue on both the non-religious and religious fronts. Try walking and chewing gum at the same time. LOL.

 

[otters]

im just sayin liberals shouldnt embrace this pope just because he says a few politically popular things, if anything, Francis has probably done immeasurable damage to the c.c. i dont buy apology arguments ever.

LOL, the State of Washington ought to be a 100% supporter of Bernie Sanders, if you actually think that the Pontiff was saying merely "a few politically popular things"