Progressives push for a $2K/month check for duration of the pandemic

[TX-Beau]

Because when you quote him, I can see him. And it's human nature, once I see it I feel the urge to respond. Which is why I have him on my ignore list to begin with. I can confidently say he hates me and will 100% of the time intentionally misinterpret everything I say to rile me up. Hence why I put him on my ignore list to begin with. So, all you have to do is not quote him and i won't see what he says.

Nope, you're a grown ass man, if you're ignoring him, fucking ignore him, otherwise be honest and just direct your comments at him.

 

[Dominus]

The point is you are selling Reagan's tired old welfare queen lies, with just as callous a dismissal of suffering, the right has always used that fantasy to justify cruelty.

OK, let's be direct and specific about something so we can move this conversation forward.

Answer directly. Do you or do you not agree that spending $1000+/month on cigarettes is bad financial decision?

 

[TX-Beau]

OK, let's be direct and specific about something so we can move this conversation forward.

Answer directly. Do you or do you not agree that spending $1000+/month on cigarettes is bad financial decision?

WHO is spending $1000.00 a month on cigs? SPECIFICALY Reagan liked to lie that women on food stamps were buying Cadillacs.

That's not moving foreword, that's the same old shit.

 

[TX-Beau]

Oh and by the way

When my family first came to the US, all 7 of us lived in a broken down trailer in the worst part of town. We survived on food stamps and food pantries. My parents got us off them ASAP. It's a pride thing. On the other hand, I've known people who only knows food stamps and food pantries. That's all they know. That's all they aim for.

PANTS ON FIRE!

 

[ClubLevelVegan]

Since I have Alistair on my ignore list, thanks for showing me what he said.

When my family first came to the US, all 7 of us lived in a broken down trailer in the worst part of town. We survived on food stamps and food pantries. My parents got us off them ASAP. It's a pride thing. On the other hand, I've known people who only knows food stamps and food pantries. That's all they know. That's all they aim for.

[Text: Removed] You always reference your own life and how your family got through things like this or that, seemingly pushing the idea that this is how it will work out for others. The reality this is not how life works, if it was, a lot of people wouldn't be in the situation they are. Despite the idea that people like the push, people on welfare aren't abusing the system all the time or not trying to better themselves.

Actually having lived through having financial troubles myself and amongst other people who have, it is not a one size fits all and it's not a lack of trying to get out of those troubles. There are a lot of factors that go into being poor or poverty stricken and tons of factors as to why people can't get out of those positions. People like to pretend to get out of these situations is a matter of working hard, when anyone that knows anyone that have lived in these situations, not working hard isn't the problem.

 

[Alistair]

WHO is spending $1000.00 a month on cigs? SPECIFICALY Reagan liked to lie that women on food stamps were buying Cadillacs.

That's not moving foreword, that's the same old shit.

Someone smoking 133 packs of cigarettes a month. (Being generous at $7.50 a pack) or close to 4.5 packs a day. So in other words, nobody.

 

[TX-Beau]

[Text: Removed] You always reference your own life and how your family got through things like this or that, seemingly pushing the idea that this is how it will work out for others. The reality this is not how life works, if it was, a lot of people wouldn't be in the situation they are. Despite the idea that people like the push, people on welfare aren't abusing the system all the time or not trying to better themselves.

Actually having lived through having financial troubles myself and amongst other people who have, it is not a one size fits all and it's not a lack of trying to get out of those troubles. There are a lot of factors that go into being poor or poverty stricken and tons of factors as to why people can't get out of those positions. People like to pretend to get out of these situations is a matter of working hard, when anyone that knows anyone that have lived in these situations, not working hard isn't the problem.

One of the ways to keep people poor are the lies like above that the right uses to abuse people they find unacceptable. We can all see what the right does. Regressive tax hikes on the poorest, cuts to food aid, cuts to education, cuts to job training, removing educational programs for the incarcerated that are proven to reduce recidivism, reduced access or no access to healthcare, no child care and no maternity leave. The list goes on and on and on - and the excuse is always that tired old lie that welfare is just a scam and they should just get off their lazy asses and do it themselves.

Which dominus conveniently forgets when he complains that he didn't get any welfare.

 

[TX-Beau]

Someone smoking 133 packs of cigarettes a month. (Being generous at $7.50 a pack) or close to 4.5 packs a day. So in other words, nobody.

Apparently he also doesn't realize you can't buy alcohol or cigarettes, or indeed Cadillacs with vouchers or food stamps.

 

[Dominus]

WHO is spending $1000.00 a month on cigs? SPECIFICALY Reagan liked to lie that women on food stamps were buying Cadillacs.

That's not moving foreword, that's the same old shit.

You misspelled the word "specifically". [Text: Removed] Also tells me you are not really reading what I am saying. Go back to my post #26. I gave you a specific example.

And no, it is not far fetched. Anybody who smokes 5-6 packs a day is literally spending that much on cigarettes alone.

So, let me ask you again. Is smoking 5-6 packs a day financially responsible or not?

The reason I am focusing on this one thing is to prevent you from muddying the water [Text: Removed]. You insist on making very general statements. And you attack me for using my life experiences. Well, my family did not get to where we are by smoking 5-6 packs a day per person. That is a lot of money wasted for a personal habit.

It's not just the system that needs to change, it's individuals also. No one can out-earn bad financial decisions.

 

[Dominus]

Apparently he also doesn't realize you can't buy alcohol or cigarettes, or indeed Cadillacs with vouchers or food stamps.

I see you putting a lot of words in my mouth. Can you please point out to me specifically where I said people are buying alcohol and cigarettes with food stamps? Just stop everything and point out exactly where I said this, that people are buying cigarettes and alcohol with food stamps.

Now, you're just lying in this debate. Earlier, I asked you nicely to please engage me in an honest conversation. Don't pull shit like this, please.

 

[ClubLevelVegan]

You are asking for honest conversation when you pulled up random amount of money people spend on cigarettes a month. You use the same talking points that have been used for years upon years when it comes to poor people.

Poor financial decisions happen across the board, it’s not exclusive to the poor and I would doubt it is a significant reason why people are poor in America. Also it is another talking point, but if people are making poor financial decisions maybe that is a symptom of a poor education system. Maybe things like how to get a bank account, file your taxes, what credit is and how to earn it, why it matters, etc should be taught in schools. I didn’t know any of this coming out of High School and considering there are kids that are going to College where there is going to be paying tuition fees that will ultimately put them in debt, maybe those kinds of things should be taught.

We can have honest discussions about these kinds of things when people stop using talking points and seem to have a limited view on the issue.

 

[Dominus]

You are asking for honest conversation when you pulled up random amount of money people spend on cigarettes a month. You use the same talking points that have been used for years upon years when it comes to poor people.

Simply put, do you deny that some people smoke 5-7 packs a day? [Text: Removed]

Poor financial decisions happen across the board, it’s not exclusive to the poor and I would doubt it is a significant reason why people are poor in America. Also it is another talking point, but if people are making poor financial decisions maybe that is a symptom of a poor education system. Maybe things like how to get a bank account, file your taxes, what credit is and how to earn it, why it matters, etc should be taught in schools. I didn’t know any of this coming out of High School and considering there are kids that are going to College where there is going to be paying tuition fees that will ultimately put them in debt, maybe those kinds of things should be taught.

Yes, everybody makes poor financial decisions. However, there are occasional poor financial decisions and then there are regular poor financial decisions. Asian immigrants come here with nothing but the clothes on their backs and our success rates are much higher than other groups. It's simple. Look at the results. Are you seriously going to say everybody's poor financial decisions are equal?

We can have honest discussions about these kinds of things when people stop using talking points and seem to have a limited view on the issue.

It's not just a talking point. It is a fact that some people smoke 5-7 packs a day. Work out the math. That adds up to about $1000/month. On a regular basis. Are you seriously comparing this to making an occasional buy that doesn't make sense?

 

[ClubLevelVegan]

Simply put, do you deny that some people smoke 5-7 packs a day? [Text: Removed]


Yes, everybody makes poor financial decisions. However, there are occasional poor financial decisions and then there are regular poor financial decisions. Asian immigrants come here with nothing but the clothes on their backs and our success rates are much higher than other groups. It's simple. Look at the results. Are you seriously going to say everybody's poor financial decisions are equal?


It's not just a talking point. It is a fact that some people smoke 5-7 packs a day. Work out the math. That adds up to about $1000/month. On a regular basis. Are you seriously comparing this to making an occasional buy that doesn't make sense?

Where are you getting these facts from? Please show us some actual statistics that back this up. Otherwise you are just making up numbers.

Are you seriously going to say everybody's poor financial decisions are equal?

[Text: Removed] this is exactly what I am not saying. I am not saying this to be rude or insult, but learn to read before responding.

 

[Dominus]

Where are you getting these facts from? Please show us some actual statistics that back this up. Otherwise you are just making up numbers.

Because I know a guy that actually smokes this. I personally know plenty of people (some who work for me) smoke this much.

But let's forget that. Here are some statistics on poor people smoking a lot more than everyone else.

https://truthinitiative.org/researc...s/why-are-72-smokers-lower-income-communities

[Text: Removed] this is exactly what I am not saying. I am not saying this to be rude or insult, but learn to read before responding.

Look, you are treating me like a right winger. Take a step back for a second.

I fully support UBI.

I fully support safety net programs (welfare, food stamps, etc.)

I fully support raising the minimum wage to $15.

What I also support is teaching people to be more financially responsible than spending half their income on vices.

Edit.

I also advocate for changes to the safety net programs. Right now, the programs like disability is all or nothing. It takes years of waiting in line to get on disability. It's only about $750/month. During the waiting period and after you're on it, you lose this benefit if you work at all.

I have brought this up before. In asian culture, we have a saying. It's like chicken tendon. When you eat it, there's no taste to it. But throwing it out is such a waste.

Same with these programs. No one can survive (realistically) on disability of $750/month. But it takes years to get on it, so it is such a waste if you decide to work to get more money in because you will lose this benefit.

Do you not see how the current system is literally trapping people in poverty? An all-or-nothing system will do this. We need to improve the system so that people don't lose all their benefits if they decide to work to improve their lives.

 

[peeonme]

Cigarettes are highly addictive, unlike Big Macs. Like most drugs people will find a way to satisfy their cravings. I paid .30 cents per pack for cigarettes at the age of 15 back in 1967. It was no big deal, when I started driving I paid about the same for a gallon of gas, still no big deal. So what made gas and cigarettes so expensive? The answer is taxes.

People can go without a hamburger or just cook their own, if they can't quit smoking it is pretty easy to make your own for about $1.00 a pack. If you can't afford a car then the price of gas means nothing. If you have a car but are unemployed you probably aren't using a lot of gas. If you get food stamps there are ways to stretch the dollar. Back in 2008-9 me and the wife received $135. per month when I was out of work. I found that I could get a 10 pound bag of chicken quarters for $4.90. A pork butt roast was .99 cents per pound. We ate really well on $135. When I made coffee I would through a fresh scoop on the old grounds and re use them. There ways to make money go further.

The problem that we see today is that some rungs have been cut out of the ladder to the middle class life style. Out sourcing and automation have had a big impact on the demand for workers. We pump our own gas, scan our groceries and bag them, all of this puts people out of work.

Do we create jobs just to put people to work? Do we pay them just to stay home? Feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and free housing will treat the symptoms and we should do so with out that becoming the norm. We as a nation need to set goals for a society where people aren't just excess baggage. I believe that most people want to be productive and be part of the economy.

 

[Dominus]

Cigarettes are highly addictive, unlike Big Macs. Like most drugs people will find a way to satisfy their cravings. I paid .30 cents per pack for cigarettes at the age of 15 back in 1967. It was no big deal, when I started driving I paid about the same for a gallon of gas, still no big deal. So what made gas and cigarettes so expensive? The answer is taxes.

People can go without a hamburger or just cook their own, if they can't quit smoking it is pretty easy to make your own for about $1.00 a pack. If you can't afford a car then the price of gas means nothing. If you have a car but are unemployed you probably aren't using a lot of gas. If you get food stamps there are ways to stretch the dollar. Back in 2008-9 me and the wife received $135. per month when I was out of work. I found that I could get a 10 pound bag of chicken quarters for $4.90. A pork butt roast was .99 cents per pound. We ate really well on $135. When I made coffee I would through a fresh scoop on the old grounds and re use them. There ways to make money go further.

The problem that we see today is that some rungs have been cut out of the ladder to the middle class life style. Out sourcing and automation have had a big impact on the demand for workers. We pump our own gas, scan our groceries and bag them, all of this puts people out of work.

Do we create jobs just to put people to work? Do we pay them just to stay home? Feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and free housing will treat the symptoms and we should do so with out that becoming the norm. We as a nation need to set goals for a society where people aren't just excess baggage. I believe that most people want to be productive and be part of the economy.

I don't know what most people want. But I have seen many types of people. Among them are the ones who work work work and then the opposite type of people who just want to sleep sleep sleep the day away.

The thing is this. We inherit a lot of our habits and lifestyle from our parents. I inherited some very good work ethics from my parents. And also good spending habits. Who I feel sorry are kids who grow up in households with parents that do as little as possible. I have personally seen it so many times it breaks my heart.

Here is an extreme example.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/local/2017/06/02/generations-disabled/

Growing up in such a household, that is all they know. Disability doesn't give much at all. Around here, it's about $750/month. Also around here, the typical small-ass studio apartment goes for about $775/month. And if they work at all, they lose this benefit. Hence, people in this system are trapped in perpetual poverty.

[Text: Removed]

 

[ClubLevelVegan]

Because I know a guy that actually smokes this. I personally know plenty of people (some who work for me) smoke this much.

But let's forget that. Here are some statistics on poor people smoking a lot more than everyone else.

https://truthinitiative.org/researc...s/why-are-72-smokers-lower-income-communities

From now on, I am just going to claim I know a guy to back up arguments when it is convenient. I wasn't saying poor people don't smoke, I was saying your statistics that you pulled out your ass were made up and they are. Knowing a guy doesn't mean that is how your average smoker smokes. I know plenty of people who have a small amount of income who smoke, they actually turned to rolling their own cigarettes cause it is much cheaper to do.

Look, you are treating me like a right winger. Take a step back for a second.

Then stop using similar talking points.

Do you not see how the current system is literally trapping people in poverty? An all-or-nothing system will do this. We need to improve the system so that people don't lose all their benefits if they decide to work to improve their lives.

I have pretty much stated this already.

And I don't think we need to improve the system because the system is broken and that we are in need of a new one where the poorest of people don't continually get fucked on it.

 

[Dominus]

From now on, I am just going to claim I know a guy to back up arguments when it is convenient. I wasn't saying poor people don't smoke, I was saying your statistics that you pulled out your ass were made up and they are. Knowing a guy doesn't mean that is how your average smoker smokes. I know plenty of people who have a small amount of income who smoke, they actually turned to rolling their own cigarettes cause it is much cheaper to do.

Good, now we are getting somewhere. I finally got you to admit to something.

Forget the example I brought up about the guy that smokes 5-6 packs a day. My general argument remains the same. Aside from changing the system, people also need to be educated and trained to make more responsible decisions. You can't out-earn regular bad decisions.

 

[ClubLevelVegan]

I didn't admit to anything.

And you're back to square one in think bad decision making is a significant reason as to why people are poor and poverty stricken. You either really don't digest what other people say or you are purposely giving people the run around because you don't actually have confidence in the things you're saying and can't back it up.

 

[Dominus]

I didn't admit to anything.

And you're back to square one in think bad decision making is a significant reason as to why people are poor and poverty stricken. You either really don't digest what other people say or you are purposely giving people the run around because you don't actually have confidence in the things you're saying and can't back it up.

*Sigh*

Ok, I give up. Your turn. What do you think should be done?