Prop 8 – Why our Reaction to Defeat may signal a Longer War

[opinterph]

An interesting article has appeared on the Christianity Today website discussing the passage of Prop 8 and suggesting that after losing the vote, gay activists waged a “campaign of intimidation” against citizens and groups which they perceive to be responsible for the amendment’s passage. The author, Mollie Ziegler, points out how these attacks contradict the spirit of equality that the gay community insists it is seeking – namely to “live-and-let-live.” After all, the GLBT community only wishes to be accepted and have the same rights as everybody else, right? The various factions in our society may hold different perspectives and opinions, but each group should respect the others and attempt to work together constructively to achieve equality and freedom for all, right?

Ms. Ziegler notes how the intimidation gay activists exhibited after Prop 8’s passage has kindled negative views of the gay rights movement among some voter groups who may now be increasingly inclined to unify in their rejection of gay issues. She indicates that the acts of intimidation have perhaps invigorated a new perception of an agenda that may now be freshly characterized as a challenge to religious freedom. She also wonders why the gay community has sabotaged its own cause by castigating various groups, such as older voters. We have seen evidence of that same pattern of wholesale characterization here in this forum. It is possible that this behavior may generate a backlash of some sort. It may even contribute toward a change of attitude among many younger voters who previously supported the idea of gay marriage.

July 7, 2009:

Younger voters are more likely to support same-sex marriage than older voters, we're repeatedly reminded. Indeed, 61 percent of voters over 65 supported Prop. 8, while 61 percent of people under 30 voted against it.

But if history and demographics are on the side of same-sex marriage, one wonders why journalists, Hollywood executives, and gay activists didn't just sit tight and wait. Why voluntarily sabotage their cause with a coordinated campaign of bigoted, violent, and hateful reactions to recent public votes on the matter?

Link to Full Article:

California's Temper Tantrum
How the gay rights movement lost more than Proposition 8.​

Copyright © 2009 Christianity Today International

We do not grant permission for our articles to appear on other websites. However, we would be happy for you to put a title, deck, short excerpt, and link on your site to the articles you would like your readers to be able to see. [Link]

 

[construct]

Thanks, Opinterph, for keeping us mindful of the opposition and their rhetoric.

The idea that anti-discrimination laws abridge religious freedom is a claim that is manifestly untrue. When a religious organization is providing a service of a secular nature for the general community, it is bound by the same anti-discrimination laws as everyone else--and well it should be. However, the gay community does not have hate-speech laws on its agenda; so churches can conduct their religious activities without constraint from the anti-discrimination laws.

There are also a few errors of fact among the examples used in the article, but they pale in comparison to the twisted claims about the effect of anti-discrimination laws.

 

[JayHawk]

Every action has a consequence. I think many of the demonstrating and out spoken people were used to malign the cause more than further it. They felt angry and hurt over the vote and reacted badly in many cases. In some cases the video was used to portray the wrong message or to convey a message that did not exist in the original content. People need to learn to keep their heads and the battle is shorter.

 

[Lostlover]

We all know which group we can blame for Prop 8. It ain't the Mormons. They're few and far between.

It's the same group that hosed blacks down and placed Japanese Americans in internment camps.

Time will be the cure all. And that's statistical FACT.

 

[construct]

We all know which group we can blame for Prop 8. It ain't the Mormons. They're few and far between.

It's the same group that hosed blacks down and placed Japanese Americans in internment camps.

Time will be the cure all. And that's statistical FACT.

Lostlover, your ageist bullshit has gotten on my last nerve. Quit hiding behind your statistics and get into the street. Jeeze!

 

[Lostlover]

Lostlover, your ageist bullshit has gotten on my last nerve. Quit hiding behind your statistics and get into the street. Jeeze!

Where did I lie?

"Don't shoot the messenger."-Abe Lincoln

 

[Dutch182]

Just spit balling here. What if Someone or group started a potition to ban all marriage Gay and Straight. Let than deal with that. If there is no gay marriage no marriage. All you have to called it is Marriage ban know one will read when they vote if you have the right title.

 

[hotatlboi]

Where did I lie?

What you did was construct a false dichotomy (that old = hates gays or that young = accepting).

There are LOTS of young bigoted people and LOTS of old accepting people.

Your ageist attitude does not help anyone, and it certainly does not enhance support for the objectives you seek.

 

[construct]

Just spit balling here. What if Someone or group started a potition to ban all marriage Gay and Straight. Let than deal with that. If there is no gay marriage no marriage. All you have to called it is Marriage ban know one will read when they vote if you have the right title.

It's not a bad idea for a localized zap in some place like Bakersfield. [construct giggles] I doubt it would go anywhere on a state-wide level, but I like the idea as a kind of demonstration tactic.

 

[Lostlover]

What you did was construct a false dichotomy (that old = hates gays or that young = accepting).

There are LOTS of young bigoted people and LOTS of old accepting people.

Your ageist attitude does not help anyone, and it certainly does not enhance support for the objectives you seek.

Where did I say that? How can I say that when not all of one group voted one way or the other?

All the data I have used have shown support and opposition at every age level. It's only the older ones though where it gets more and more bigoted.

Don't put words in my mouth.

 

[construct]

Where did I say that? How can I say that when not all of one group voted one way or the other?

All the data I have used have shown support and opposition at every age level. It's only the older ones though where it gets more and more bigoted.

Don't put words in my mouth.

When are you going to get it through your thick skull? If more young people (the least politically involved demographic) got out and voted, Prop. 8 would have failed. Your goddamn statistics cut both ways. It's the young people's fault.

And you want to let the Mormons off the hook when they pumped millions of out-of-state dollars into that campaign. I don't get it at all!

 

[hotatlboi]

Where did I say that?

You imply it with your continued ridiculous generalizations of older people.

 

[construct]

Now that I've thrown my temper tantrum--I certainly disapprove of the vandalism reported in the article.

 

[bankside]

If gay-hating Christians think that they should be able to deny equal marriage and have everyone else play along in the spirit of "live and let live" then the only thing as magnificent as their ignorance is their hypocrisy. What a bunch of losers.

 

[Lostlover]

You imply it with your continued ridiculous generalizations of older people.

This is my last response to you cause I don't want to hijack this thread, but dammit read what I write not what I didn't write.

I didn't imply shit.

 

[Lostlover]

When are you going to get it through your thick skull? If more young people (the least politically involved demographic) got out and voted, Prop. 8 would have failed. Your goddamn statistics cut both ways. It's the young people's fault.

And you want to let the Mormons off the hook when they pumped millions of out-of-state dollars into that campaign. I don't get it at all!

What? And when did voting become mandatory?

I have said this numerous times before and it was a mistake on my part: I did not vote in 2004 in protest of Kerry. Not voting was my right. And it's everyone's right.

Please explain this argument to me. "Not enough younger people voted to neutralize my peers. So I blame the younger voters, some in high school, for not neutralizing older people."

Mormons that supported bigotry out of their cult state are bigots too! How do you like that?

 

[chatolandia]

I think she is wrong

the protests scared a few people, true

but most of those people are the ones that have their mind made up, the 'believers'

I think it also added a human factor to this situation, especially to the ones that were on the fence about it, and may have voted against it. They could have seen the frustration and identified with it... Especially in the African American and Latino communities...


but most importantly it galvanized the gay rights movement nationally, strengthened the resolve of the community and moved many to action. Many of whom thought that it was going to pass, that there was no need to do much....


so it really did the opposite, in my opinion...

 

[construct]

Please explain this argument to me. "Not enough younger people voted to neutralize my peers. So I blame the younger voters, some in high school, for not neutralizing older people."

The argument is silly, and I used it to counter the outrageously insulting generalizations of your continuous, ageist jabs.

Mormons that supported bigotry out of their cult state are bigots too! How do you like that?

I like it a little better than your previous comment about Mormons.

 

[Centexfarmer]

An interesting article has appeared on the Christianity Today website discussing the passage of Prop 8 and suggesting that after losing the vote, gay activists waged a “campaign of intimidation” against citizens and groups which they perceive to be responsible for the amendment’s passage. The author, Mollie Ziegler, points out how these attacks contradict the spirit of equality that the gay community insists it is seeking – namely to “live-and-let-live.” After all, the GLBT community only wishes to be accepted and have the same rights as everybody else, right? The various factions in our society may hold different perspectives and opinions, but each group should respect the others and attempt to work together constructively to achieve equality and freedom for all, right?

I love the way that so called "Christians," while doing every thing that they can to appear UN-Christ like, can still find someway to make themselves the victims in all of this.

As I recall the GLBT Community eventually silenced the "Moral Majority" in California through violations of Campaign Finance laws.

It was a "technicality" that required that opposing factions file/identify as a PAC, and to be able to disclose the source of the campaign contributions.

Since many "Moral Majority" funds came from local churches, those Churches risked loosing their "tax exempt" status by actively, and openly contributing to political campaigns.

Referendums seem to be a different issue, but one certainly applied to the political process.

So the author continues to fan the flames, and essentially calls us to task for defending ourselves in an uneven playing field; Religious groups imposing their "moral" views, over the U.S. Constitution.

As I told a professed Evangelical friend of mine, "Y'all can fight this all that you want, for as long as you want, and throw as much scripture at us that you want, and play victim as often as you want, but we're not going anywhere. we're still going to fight for what's right."

 

[Kulindahr]

We all know which group we can blame for Prop 8. It ain't the Mormons. They're few and far between.

It's the same group that hosed blacks down and placed Japanese Americans in internment camps.

Time will be the cure all. And that's statistical FACT.

Thank you for the stirring example of what's stirring people against us. Why don't you go proclaim that on the streets in California next time there's a vote, so we can lose by ten percent instead of like four?

I love the way that so called "Christians," while doing every thing that they can to appear UN-Christ like, can still find someway to make themselves the victims in all of this.

. . . .
As I told a professed Evangelical friend of mine, "Y'all can fight this all that you want, for as long as you want, and throw as much scripture at us that you want, and play victim as often as you want, but we're not going anywhere. we're still going to fight for what's right."

I like to point out that the Devil can quote scripture for his own purpose.

Not really. I do, though, ask "How does that show the love of Jesus?"
I haven't yet gotten an answer to that.