On-Topic Putting blame EVERYWHERE it belongs.

[CoolBlue71]

It's right there.

You should re-read it so you correctly understand.

Note that I didn't say the corporations and pay-as-you-go politicians aren't the problem. They are. But you don't deal with any sort of problem by demanding purity tests. What you do is, you hold them to their word.

Sure, I support a purity test for Democratic incumbents and other candidates.

For one example…I demand that they support Medicare For All.

If they don’t—as has been expressed by the likes of the corrupt Debbie Wasserman Schultz along with others like Dianne Feinstein and Claire McCaskill—then that tells me they are not representing the people and are not worthy of voter support.

 

[eastofeden]

^^^Good News...you and your movement will be able to alienate at least 20% of the young voters or keep them from voting Democrat..which leaves the rest of us to make sure enough moderate people vote to keep another Trump out of office.

You should have no trouble getting rid of McCaskill and Heitkamp and Manchin and a few more...so you will get your Republican Super Majority...and you will still get your base to believe your are doing the right thing..but like the Tea Baggers...your base will shrink when the Republican start taking away things like their right to decide what happens to their bodies....

...and then you will be irrelevant. The rest of us will do what you pretend you want to do...keep pushing the Democrats to be true to and advance the liberal agenda which includes most of the things you say you want.....

Luckily we understand three steps forward..two back..that is how it works. Change is slow.

 

[luckynumbah7]

It's like people've forgotten that eventually, no one passes the purity tests. Or perhaps they're used to passing the purity tests. Could go either way.

Anyway, I've yet to see the amount of 'infighting' that I think would be the bare minimum of necessary in order to schism the left's/democratic goal set so's one could claim that the real issue is infighting about what people say vs what they do vs mandatory capitulations in this political system of bartering -- As opposed to the also real issue of people, politicians included, letting their vices out sans shackles to explore the political & social terrain. There is no foolproof system of government, so that seems to be the root of it.

So I'm not spotting much of a chance for the addition to create a third-party system, either. Ironically enough I think the addition of nazis kinda killed that, at least put a damper on it.

 

[bankside]

You should re-read it so you correctly understand.




Sure, I support a purity test for Democratic incumbents and other candidates.

For one example…I demand that they support Medicare For All.

If they don’t—as has been expressed by the likes of the corrupt Debbie Wasserman Schultz along with others like Dianne Feinstein and Claire McCaskill—then that tells me they are not representing the people and are not worthy of voter support.

Being aware that Republicans could screw up the US healthcare system for millions more people than it is now, either for votes or for profit...or for kicks, to be honest...then I think that's the sort of demand that should not be so absolute.

If Democrats think they can sell truly universal comprehensive single-payer healthcare, and win an election doing it, then that's what they should sell.

If Democrats do a bit of homework before an election and figure they might lose, then they should sit on that fence and shut the fuck up about universal healthcare as convincingly as they can. No point promising something good if people don't get it and they end up voting against it. And there is every reason to greedily grab that power in the next election, just to stop the Republicans from having it, because they will deliberately and methodically fuck up health care.

That's not unprincipled, that's being realistic and taking things one step at a time.

Sit. On. That. Damn. Fence. if it gets votes.

 

[NotHardUp1]

The points CoolBlue have been observable since the Clinton years. A cold realization that the left could not hold office for his second term unless he moved center was made.

And, for the record, the Democrats have never been altruistic. They have been as guilty as the right in being co-opted by corporate interests, merely throwing a humanitarian bone via the entitlement programs while simultaneously ceding obscene amounts to bankers, real estate, Wall St., and the wealthy.

The truth is, the DNC did cock block any who would undermine H. Clinton's nomination, and it was a key factor in the election of Trump. DNC leaders gambled that the party would flock to the candidate when left with no alternative but the psycho who is the Republican nominee, now president.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, the mules balked and now we have the manifest evidence of it with a complete incompetent holding the reins of power, plus he's simply evil and deluded.

I fear Sarandon might be right after all. It is not inconceivable that there will eventually be an assassination, followed by complete schism and civil war, but not geographic, more like militia or guerillas.

I lived through the 60s and the dissolution of the nation in the early 70s. This appears to have greater potential for rupture. It is a horrifying prospect, and all because of greed, the greed of those who have it good and afraid we might spend a dollar or two on the needy rather than Exxon, Lockheed, and Humana.

 

[kallipolis]

I fear Sarandon might be right after all. It is not inconceivable that there will eventually be an assassination, followed by complete schism and civil war, but not geographic, more like militia or guerillas.

I have much more faith in the robustness of America's institutions having reminded readers here time, after time that Trump's most dangerous opponents are Republican Party diehards waiting patiently.... with daggers drawn.

The die is cast....

 

[CoolBlue71]

The points CoolBlue have been observable since the Clinton years. A cold realization that the left could not hold office for his second term unless he moved center was made.

That was the 1990s. And President Bill Clinton moved not to the center but to the right.

 

[Sausy]

Essentially though NotHard Up1 sees things where the Dem Party is today (and we as a nation)in as pessimistic a view as anyone here and I kind of share that too. But I do disagree about one thing... while the Dems as a whole haven't been altruistic their evolution from the more nativist, conservative socially/culturally party to a much more liberal one under FDR ,Truman, and LBJ(though he threw away a potentially great legacy on civil rights and battling for more just economic condition for all and Medicare as a crowning touch with the Vietnam War)was their finest hour. We have a great legacy... we just didn't have leadership that stepped up to the plate and defended it. It's not a radically left wing legacy but a mainstream progressivism in the best liberal tradition. We need people running for office who define and explain what real liberalism is..and proudly stand by it and challenge Republicans who seek to demean, smear, redefine.. we need people who say that while mistakes have been made and we are far from perfect, and can still do things a lot better than he sometimes have, our message is worth standing up proudly for and we will define ourselves to the American people. NOT the constant sound bites smearing everything liberal, including patriotism and motivation. As if Republicans have done much in recent years to improve the lot of Americans trying to have a better life for themselves, their families, their communities. Those Republicans DON'T get to define us...hypocritical pieces of manure! AND Democrats of recent years running away from our selves at our best... we stand for something or stand for nothing. And people who could be convinced to get back on board with us will have no reason to while those Democrats still control the official messaging for the party.

 

[Julian89]

An excerpt from Hillary's new book "What Happened"

 

[TickTockMan]

^Pretty much everything she says in the book that has been released has already been debunked or shown where she is only giving a part truth.


She is a joke and sadly is running for 2020 already.

 

[Sausy]

Hillary, if there is any part of you left with a sense of decency and service...get off the stage now. I will give her one thing, and something she was 100% spot on and I will defend her without hesitancy... whether the number she gave was on the money, Donald Trump had a considerable number of supporters who were not only "deplorables" but "despicable. She was absolutely the worst candidate the Democrats had to present that message. Had Joe Biden(another she ripped in her attacks) been the Democratic nominee instead of her(and how I wish he had decided to run, but understand how he was just coming off the premature death of his son Beau and couldn't give a run his full effort) there would be no question he would not have let the Rust Belt states that turned the election go for Trump. Don't forget, Trump won three states here by less than 100,000 votes. A big reason why I do not call for the abolition of the Electoral College. Barack Obama won those states twice... albeit with somewhat smaller margins in 2012. Hillary Clinton didn't attempt to connect the blue collar white vote...many of Trump fans voted for him because of nationalist, bigoted, racist undertones. But when a lot of good people who put their support twice with Obama absolutely could not connect in the end with Hillary... it was the priorities of her campaign that didn't include them(which even supposedly Bill Clinton urged her campaign to visibly seek out and make an outreach to). Whatever East of Eden and others say about her in defense, the failure of the Hillary Clinton campaign as her bitter, vengeful, petty words clearly show... the reason people weren't her was because she wasn't really with them. Her protestations of being the real main progressive voice of the Democratic Party is laughable. She isn't the heir of FDR and the real progressive tradition in the modern Democratic Party.. the man she accused of not being proud to be a Democrat, and only one of convenience when he was, Bernie Sanders... is more a true successor to the values FDR represented then she ever was or could be.

 

[ballcaphair]

That was the 1990s. And President Bill Clinton moved not to the center but to the right.

I think you are correct. I think both parties moved to the right without question, Clinton even on welfare. The Republicans impeached him for a lie about adultery. It is history for me, so I'm not a witness, but it seems like a huge step to the right. Neither were conservative. Presently, the POTUS lies often and all parties have no platforms or leaders including conservatives. We are a ship at sea and I see no navigator at all.

 

[eastofeden]

I am fine letting Mrs Clinton have her voice. I don't need her to shut up. She has alot of support in California and like alot of other Californians I am not going to allow any of you to define her for me.....I will allow her do to that herself.

I look forward to hearing what she has to say.


.

 

[Benvolio]

As Harry Truman said, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Much of what she complains about is just politics.

 

[eastofeden]

I am watching her now on The View...she is a breath of fresh air. I agree with pretty much everything she has said.

I know now that I absolutely made the right choice when I cast my voice for her...

 

[TickTockMan]

I am watching her now on The View...she is a breath of fresh air. I agree with pretty much everything she has said.

I know now that I absolutely made the right choice when I cast my voice for her...

What position? The public or the private?

 

[eastofeden]

What position? The public or the private?

You see a villain and have invented a personality with the help of right wing shills and Russian trolls...or maybe you want to claim it as your own observations which is OK with me....I am not going to defend her anymore. I love her now....I just liked her OK 'til this past week....

I grew up with a real villain..so I can spot them rather easily. This woman you guys invented...it is a work of fiction. I shudder to think what you would do when faced with an actual villain....

Oh wait..I don't have to think..I can see right now in front of my eyes and watch your behaviors when faced with the biggest villain you will EVER see in the Oval Office...and listen to your fake comparisons and know if you could observe your reactions to him versus her though someone else's eyes...you would immediately realize what a problem you had...

...but it isn't my problem and I have resigned myself to the next chapters already...and it isn't pretty...

Now get to work..you need to focus your attention on Kamala Harris and tear her down...you will need a head start....get busy....

 

[TickTockMan]

You see a villain and have invented a personality with the help of right wing shills and Russian trolls...or maybe you want to claim it as your own observations which is OK with me....I am not going to defend her anymore. I love her now....I just liked her OK 'til this past week....

I grew up with a real villain..so I can spot them rather easily. This woman you guys invented...it is a work of fiction. I shudder to think what you would do when faced with an actual villain....

Oh wait..I don't have to think..I can see right now in front of my eyes and watch your behaviors when faced with the biggest villain you will EVER see in the Oval Office...and listen to your fake comparisons and know if you could observe your reactions to him versus her though someone else's eyes...you would immediately realize what a problem you had...

...but it isn't my problem and I have resigned myself to the next chapters already...and it isn't pretty...

Now get to work..you need to focus your attention on Kamala Harris and tear her down...you will need a head start....get busy....

I am just pointing out that Hillary herself says she has two positions. I just wanted to know what one you agree with.

 

[eastofeden]

I am just pointing out that Hillary herself says she has two positions. I just wanted to know what one you agree with.

I don't think you want to know at all....

Tell you what though.....you get your Russian Buddies to hack EVERY SINGLE POLITICIAN and put all the stuff they stole in a row with no names..and then YOU tell ME what YOU think of EACH PERSON...k?