Questioning The Resurrection

[kallipolis]

A detective relies on a lot more than second hand testimony to convict a perpetrator of a crime. A second hand account past through 2000 years of translation, revision, and modification wouldn't even be admissible.

The good detective ignores nothing, and includes everything that might add value to his investigative process.

The scribes penned the recollections of Jesus' apostles with the understanding that their presence in the life, and times of Jesus of Nazareth was eye witness testimony to those momentous events.

These are not second hand reports.

Were you to read all the major English language translations of the original Greek you would note that they all convey the same truths. Revisions of earlier, ancient translations of Holy Scripture merely update the changing pattern in language development as for instance, the original language of The Authorised Version (The King James) appeals to many for its elaborate language, but clearly represents a form of English long discontinued in every day usage, thus necessitating translations that are contemporaneous with current language usage.

 

[kallipolis]

You know Slaveboy never made the claim "god does not exist". He responded to your claims that god exists with the simple, rational "I don't believe you". His attempt at explaining the difference to you is meaningless, however, as you have shown in the past that no matter how many times in how many different ways you are corrected on this issue, you will continue to assert that disbelief in a god is a staunch religious position - "atheistic belief" - atheism is a non-belief - how can something that specifically ISN'T something else BE that something else?

My implication he did and that apart from his words of anger, bitterness and hostility directed at religion clearly and unambiguously expressed.

 

[kallipolis]

He's quite right, especially on the part of rejecting a belief not being a belief itself. Atheism isn't a belief. You keep claiming it is, but you haven't backed it up.

Believing that there is no God, is a belief more so when those anti theist beliefs are so militantly expressed in language that speaks to the fervent, even evangelical zealousness of the atheist so enthusiastic in expressing those beliefs.

 

[kallipolis]

No it's not. Atheism is a lack of belief in god. Do I need to believe that there are no pink unicorns too? Or how about the flying spaghetti monster? Atheists aren't like that all. They aren't making the assumptions.

You have posted this message, many times. Duly noted.

 

[kallipolis]

My implication he did and that apart from his words of anger, bitterness and hostility directed at religion clearly and unambiguously expressed.

Proof can also be discovered in the several other posts which this poster made today all robustly expressing anti religion sentiments.

 

[FirmaFan]

You have posted this message, many times. Duly noted.

Noted, but not understood, it would seem.

 

[kallipolis]

Noted, but not understood, it would seem.

Pedantry is well understood for its blind obsessiveness with simplistic declarations.

 

[palbert]

Kallipolis, I congratulate you on the use of the word "pedant" and its variants. You have totally dulled its bite.

Now, I am no ogre and can believe in the resurrection of Jesus. That, however. posits that he was not "killed" - the word used above. In fairness you must give me this. Therefore I ask you, as a scholar of the texts, how exactly is Jesus' "death" on the cross described, and what range of meaning do those words span? (One recalls the newborn - declared stillborn - who survived 12 hours in a sealed coffin to have a shaken acceptance in a declaration of death. I hope no one gives her ideas.)

 

[kallipolis]

Kallipolis, I congratulate you on the use of the word "pedant" and its variants. You have totally dulled its bite.

Now, I am no ogre and can believe in the resurrection of Jesus. That, however. posits that he was not "killed" - the word used above. In fairness you must give me this. Therefore I ask you, as a scholar of the texts, how exactly is Jesus' "death" on the cross described, and what range of meaning do those words span? (One recalls the newborn - declared stillborn - who survived 12 hours in a sealed coffin to have a shaken acceptance in a declaration of death. I hope no one gives her ideas.)

I ensure that I follow posting guide lines but occasionally endeavour to lighten the mood when the solitary, predictable post from the same poster reappears ad nauseum contributing nothing of substance to the thread.

Crucifixion is never by the choice of the victim leading me to believe that Jesus was killed for daring to confront the power, and influence of The Sanhedrin over the Jewish people, with the Roman procurator authorising the execution of a man he judged innocent, to appease the Jewish religious establishment and the street mob.

The Roman guards ensured that Jesus was dead by ramming a spear into his side, and then breaking his legs. The body could not be removed for burial until the Romans were satisfied that Jesus had died. The Roman soldiers were the objective, and impartial witnesses to the death of Jesus. Jesus' body was placed in a tomb carved out of a rock face.

There is no rational explanation for resurrection from death, into new life for the human person other than in faith accepting that The Father intervened in a miraculous fashion by raising Jesus from death, into new life.

I can wax lyrical for hours on this particular matter but see no good reason for following the example of another poster by being pedantic when a simple reply will suffice.

 

[kallipolis]

There's no proof Jesus was even a real person, let alone the son of god who rose from the dead.

kallipolis can't proclaim anything.

The testimony of Jesus' friends trumps any proof, that you are not providing to prove otherwise.

 

[Telstra]

kallipolis, you read too much books but still believe in spirits ? LOL

 

[kallipolis]

Nice fallacy. That's akin to saying, "You can't provide proof Santa Claus doesn't exist, therefore he must!"

The four books recounting Jesus' life were not written by his friends. They were written by unknown people after the fact.

The witness accounts of David Koresh's divinity, or Loch Ness monster, are more convincing, which isn't saying much.

Let me correct your well noted ignorance on matters concerning Holy Scripture.

The four gospels were penned by scribes, and authored by Jesus' friends who spent some three, and a half years living at his side sharing his life, and listening with great enthusiasm to his many wise stories. Such personal recollections evidence that Jesus' influence was sufficient for his close band of friends to dedicate their lives to spread the words of life that Jesus revealed to them.

Red herrings are a familiar feature of your many attempts to ridicule those posters whose contributions on the spiritual life enrage, and anger you including your easy willingness to invoke the myth of the Loch Ness monster to justify your many fishing expeditions.

 

[kallipolis]

kallipolis, you read too much books but still believe in spirits ? LOL

A quality whisky is always a welcome guest on a lonely evening. I prefer a single malt - very, occasionally.

 

[kallipolis]

There's no proof of anything not existing. Don't waste your time! Just believe in everything. It's only logical.

Your many posts ridiculing religious, and spiritual beliefs is solid proof that your obsessive, compulsive dedication evangelising on behalf of your atheistic beliefs is sufficient evidence to identify you as an atheist zealot totally focused on converting theists, to your atheistic belief structure.

 

[Telstra]

A quality whisky is always a welcome guest on a lonely evening. I prefer a single malt - very, occasionally.

I don't know what you mean.
Anyway, i saw you wrote another "militant atheist" thing.
What he wrote was nothing militant. Not believing is not militant. Preaching is militant !!!

 

[zoltanspawn]

Hindus must be appalled over all this obsessive-compulsive evangelicalism as well. Deities such as Ganesh, Shiva, and Vishnu deserve equal respect and consideration. I wonder what the punishment is for not believing in them. Could it be anywhere near as nasty as the Christian god's?

I see no comparison between Kallipolis' respectful consideration of other religions, and your sneering critique of his.

 

[kallipolis]

I don't know what you mean.
Anyway, i saw you wrote another "militant atheist" thing.
What he wrote was nothing militant. Not believing is not militant. Preaching is militant !!!

So is obsessive, compulsive brain washing by atheist militants revealing a zealous appetite for disseminating propaganda in support of atheistic beliefs, while ridiculing theistic beliefs. Or, hadn't you noticed, or understood?

 

[kallipolis]

People dedicated their lives to David Koresh, Jim Jones, and Marshall Applewhite as well. I'm not sure how that's evidence of anything.

It sounds like you need a big dose of the Straight Dope.

• Jesus himself left no records of his existence, written or otherwise
• The earliest scripture was written in 65 AD, 35 years after his alleged death
• The stories of Jesus immediately following his alleged death were word-of-mouth only
• Scholars don’t actually know who wrote most of the New Testament, but tradition (aka assumption) has assigned the “Gospel” to certain authors
• There are actually a number of Jesus fables, such as the Gospel of Mary, some of which give very different and conflicting accounts of his life
• Many scholars posit that there were previous writings that the authors based their works on
• Mark was written around 65 AD and he wasn't even an Apostle
• Matthew was written sometime between 65 and 134 AD and was largely based off Mark. Luke around the same time.
• John was also written by an unknown author after the fact, probably around 100 AD

The Straight Dope: Who wrote the Bible? (Part 4)

I have noted these conspiracy theories over the years from various militant atheist Internet sites..... that fly in the face of the proof of the written words, authored by those who shared their life with Jesus.

Tradition (word of mouth) always pre-dates the written story.

Several of Jesus' apostles were still alive when their recollections were penned on paper.

Mark was an apostle and was so from the very beginning of Jesus' ministry.

Matthew's gospel was written while he was still alive.

John's words were definitely penned on paper while he was alive, and there is ample evidence on the Greek island of Patmos where he died to prove his authorship of those words attributed to him, despite recognising that in his grand old age an aid wrote down his recollections.

 

[kallipolis]

I don't believe in dragons and mermaids either. Is that a "belief structure" as well? If so, maybe an anonymous author 40 years after my death can write a book about it.

BTW I'm not an atheist, I'm agnostic. But your hatred for us for not worshiping the particular god you want us too is duly noted. I believe your religion dreamed up a solution for people like us: An eternity of suffering in Hell. How lovely!

Hindus must be appalled over all this obsessive-compulsive evangelicalism as well. Deities such as Ganesh, Shiva, and Vishnu deserve equal respect and consideration. I wonder what the punishment is for not believing in them. Could it be anywhere near as nasty as the Christian god's?

I have never knocked another religion, nor shall I.

That is your department as your many posts ridiculing Christianity evidence.

 

[kallipolis]

Compulsive brainwashing by atheist militants? I'm sorry I'm just not seeing it. I guess whenever anyone disputes what you have said in this forum they are suddenly an atheist militant. And from what I notice in society it's mostly religious fundamentalists that do the brainwashing... one guy had people convinced the world was coming to an end last May. He convinced everybody the bible said so and he collected millions from his followers.

Again, there is no such thing as atheistic beliefs, and atheism isn't even centralized. Most atheists have differing perspectives on religion. Most don't care for it.

And from looking at threads that you have created or bumped, I see more evangelizing then anyone else.

It must be quiet on Hot Topics, and the politics forum for you to continue repeating ad nauseum your previous posts with the zealous fervour that militant atheists demonstrate on this forum daily.