Rayshard Brooks killed by Atlanta Police [SPLIT]

[Rex]

Re: news anchor with 35 yr career "cancelled" after calling Floyd a "POS"

He was under the influence and he admitted that he was.

what video did you watch? because the one I saw had him lying about a bunch of things. I don't remember him ever outwards admitting he was under the influence. his story just wasn't making sense, he didn't even know where he was and when he did admit to drinking, he claimed it was 1 drink.

But being asleep in your stationary car in a parking lot is not a crime. It doesn't require armed police offers.

if you were PARKED, I'd agree. He wasn't . he was in a drive thru trying to get food and with the intention of getting back on the road. He fell asleep in the drive through. In this case, yes it DID require armed police. These officers were really nice to him to and were really trying to keep things safe. He's the one who resisted, grabbed their weapons and started attacking.

Honestly, when I see anyone passed out in a public place, I assume they have a medical issue and go from there. It's dangerous to make assumptions before you know the details.

and in the video, they DID ask him at the very beginning if he suffered from any medical issues because he DENIED being under the influence.

I get the some of the point that he's making- that many of these guys that movements put up as martyrs are imperfect. It goes back to the Matthew Shepard example (and Tyler Clementi for that matter)- everyone has skeletons in their closet and it's always risky to make a saint out of anyone.

this isn't like the Matter Shepard situation imo. I guess you could argue the Floyd murder was, but Sheppard wasn't killed by cops. he wasn't a violent criminal and the Brooks situation isn't like either story. I don't believe Brooks was a victim at all. He forced the police to react to his assault. It's his own fault he got shot.

The problem with going down that path is that you always end up with the benefit of hindsight to justify assumptions that were made beforehand that may or may not prove to be true.

When the officer who strangled Floyd to death had his knee on his throat, he had no idea of Floyd's criminal record. So, how did the officer end up down a path of killing someone over a $20 counterfeit bill? Likely, it was based upon a set of assumptions about Floyd based upon the color of his skin, the way he was dressed, the car he was driving, etc. The officer's actions were way out of proportion to the alleged crime being committed.

possibly, as I said though. That situation and what happened with Brooks are not alike.

 

[KaraBulut]

Re: news anchor with 35 yr career "cancelled" after calling Floyd a "POS"

A blood alcohol level of 0.10 would be obvious to anyone paying attention to the individual’s breath. It would be reasonable to assume that the individual passed out in the driver’s seat of the car was under the influence of alcohol - whether or not he was also having a stroke or heart attack.

Most people aren't aware that diabetics also have a smell to their breath from ketones. It's often mistaken for alcohol by people who don't have medical experience.

This is why EMS is a much better option than armed police unless the person is a danger to themselves or to the public.

Also worth noting- before this situation escalated, Brooks offered to walk to his sister's house nearby so that he was not driving the car. He was given a breathalyzer test (that he failed) after this discussion. Again, being drunk at the wheel of a stationary car is not a crime. There were other options that could have avoided the escalation that happened afterward.

It is also true that intoxicated persons are often irrational and unpredictable. What Rex doesn’t seem to understand is that due process should be afforded to everyone equally, regardless of whatever character flaws they may have. The jury should not attempt to measure the victim’s worth as a pretense of determining whether or not the actions of the officer were justified. And neither should the media nor the citizenry.

Exactly.

There's a strong connection between law enforcement and people who work in emergency rooms. In the ED, you sometimes get the victims and sometimes you get the alleged perpetrator. Sometimes the patient is both a perpetrator and a victim of a crime. Regardless, you're expected to treat every patient equally because it's not your job to decide who is guilty and who is not guilty. If you can't do this, you need to get out of healthcare.

The same is true of the police. Their job is to decide whether there's enough evidence to charge someone with a crime. It's not their job to decide who is guilty or not guilty. When they do that, they're more likely to end up in these situations where someone gets killed needlessly.

 

[opinterph]

Re: news anchor with 35 yr career "cancelled" after calling Floyd a "POS"

you give up the right to due process when you attempt to steal an officers weapon and use it against them though. also said a few times that that whatever character flaws Floyd had does NOT justify what happened to him, but we shouldn't be celebrating him as a hero either.

I am not personally celebrating Mr. Floyd or Mr. Brooks as a hero. They both are, however, victims of police misconduct.

 

[opinterph]

Re: news anchor with 35 yr career "cancelled" after calling Floyd a "POS"

He was under the influence and he admitted that he was.

But being asleep in your stationary car in a parking lot is not a crime.

In the State of Georgia it is a crime to be drunk and positioned in the driver’s seat of a parked vehicle.

Can I Get a DUI for Sitting in a Parked Car While Drunk? (Nolo)

It surprises many drivers (especially those who pull over to "sleep it off") to learn that the DUI laws of most states also prohibit drivers from "operating" or being in "actual physical control" of a car while under the influence. In other words, you can get a DUI without actually driving.

 

[Rex]

Re: news anchor with 35 yr career "cancelled" after calling Floyd a "POS"

Most people aren't aware that diabetics also have a smell to their breath from ketones. It's often mistaken for alcohol by people who don't have medical experience.

This is why EMS is a much better option than armed police unless the person is a danger to themselves or to the public.

Also worth noting- before this situation escalated, Brooks offered to walk to his sister's house nearby so that he was not driving the car. He was given a breathalyzer test (that he failed) after this discussion. Again, being drunk at the wheel of a stationary car is not a crime. There were other options that could have avoided the escalation that happened afterward.



Exactly.

There's a strong connection between law enforcement and people who work in emergency rooms. In the ED, you sometimes get the victims and sometimes you get the alleged perpetrator. Sometimes the patient is both a perpetrator and a victim of a crime. Regardless, you're expected to treat every patient equally because it's not your job to decide who is guilty and who is not guilty. If you can't do this, you need to get out of healthcare.

The same is true of the police. Their job is to decide whether there's enough evidence to charge someone with a crime. It's not their job to decide who is guilty or not guilty. When they do that, they're more likely to end up in these situations where someone gets killed needlessly.

HE WAS OPERATING THE VEHICLE. Are you suggesting he should be able to walk free from driving while intoxicated? Not sure why you keep implying otherwise. The guy was trying to get food and continue driving. Should they be getting him a pillow and reading him a bed time story and get his blanket too?

And HE escalated the situation, not the cops. Floyd is a victem. This other guy is not.

 

[KaraBulut]

Re: news anchor with 35 yr career "cancelled" after calling Floyd a "POS"

In the State of Georgia it is a crime to be drunk and positioned in the driver’s seat of a parked vehicle.

There's a law that needs to be challenged.

HE WAS OPERATING THE VEHICLE. Are you suggesting he should be able to walk free from driving while intoxicated?

That's the issue. He wasn't driving when the police were called nor did the police observe him driving.

Opinterph indicated that Georgia has a possible criminal penalty for a person who is intoxicated while parked in a vehicle. However, one has to ask whether a person sitting in a car idle is enough of a danger to the public to warrant being shot twice in the back? The response was out of proportion to the crime.

If this were a case of someone on a public road who was observed to be driving erratically, then this would be much clearer. But even if that were the case, and after being stopped, the suspect fled on foot, the appropriate response for the police is to follow the suspect and not shoot them in the back.

These days, there's not a lot of motivation to arrest or fail people who haven't committed serious offenses. Several local jurisdictions were already segregating intoxicated people, citing them and releasing them so that they never enter the general jail population. Since COVID-19, everyone entering a jail creates a risk to staff and prisoners. It makes a lot more sense to ticket them and have someone take them home.

Where Brooks got himself into this situation is when he reached for the officer's weapon. That was stupid. However, the officer is going to have trouble arguing that lethal force was required, even in this situation.

 

[ClubLevelVegan]

nobody said that. What justified the police's actions was Brooks assaulting the police and using their weapons against them and endangering their lives. him being a criminal and child abuser is just more reason not to be treating him like a victim or martyr, but he will be.

lol no, if the roles were reversed the media would be having a fking field day and sensationalizing these stories around the clock. they would be all over it. these situations don't get any coverage by most major news outlets because it doesn't fit the narrative they want.

I have seen a lot of things on twitter or reddit or where er, like actual video of stuff that news stations don’t pick up on. Which is why I don’t strictly wait for the news for information, cause even when they get these videos they tend to edit them in a way to skew the message regardless of side.

At the same time that doesn’t mean there can’t be facts in these reports. Which is why it is best to read more than one source.

 

[Rex]

Re: news anchor with 35 yr career "cancelled" after calling Floyd a "POS"

There's a law that needs to be challenged.

explain why that law needs to be changed. So a person who's drunk or on drugs and who's parked waiting outside someone's house because they're going to be picking them up them should no be charged with a DUI? or a person going through a drive thru restaurant should not be charged for driving intoxicated? if the person WILLINGLY pulled over, parked their car, turned it off and realized they were too drunk/high to drive but still stayed in the car in the driver's seat, yes I'd agree. In that case, the person could be given a break. That isn't what happened here. This guy was going through a drive thru with the intent to continue driving and fell asleep twice, holding up traffic and the police had to wake him up. he then continuously denied being intoxicated but didn't know where he was. It just seems like you want to give him a pass for that. I also disagree that the law needs to be changed.

from my understand of the situation, Brooks already had a warrant for his arrest for something else, so regardless if he was given a pass for driving intoxicated he was likely going to be arrested either way.

Opinterph indicated that Georgia has a possible criminal penalty for a person who is intoxicated while parked in a vehicle. However, one has to ask whether a person sitting in a car idle is enough of a danger to the public to warrant being shot twice in the back? The response was out of proportion to the crime.

the danger wasn't from him being parked idly. the danger was him physically assaulting the police, taking their taser and firing it them. he escalated the situation and they reacted in self defense.

Where Brooks got himself into this situation is when he reached for the officer's weapon. That was stupid. However, the officer is going to have trouble arguing that lethal force was required, even in this situation.

officers will be acquitted . they did nothing wrong. once a person takes an officer's weapon from them and begins to use it against them, doesn't matter if it's a baton, taser or gun. you can use lethal force. they also could argue that there was no way to know if he didn't already have a weapon on him. one of the officers placed a foot down on his arm after the shooting to disarm him from reaching for a gun or weapon he may have had. It lasted about 6 seconds. the media twisted this into "officer was kicking Brooks as he was dying".

 

[opinterph]

Re: news anchor with 35 yr career "cancelled" after calling Floyd a "POS"

the danger wasn't from him being parked idly. the danger was him physically assaulting the police, taking their taser and firing it them. he escalated the situation and they reacted in self defense.

Mr. Brooks discharged the officer’s Taser twice -- once when he first grabbed it and again as he was attempting to flee. After two discharges the Taser cannot be fired again. The officer should have known that the Taser was no longer a threat when he reached for his firearm; however, it is possible he didn’t realize the Taser was already effectively neutralized.

It is against Atlanta Police policy to fire a Taser at a person who is fleeing. Fulton County District Attorney Paul Howard noted that if a Taser is not to be fired at someone running away, then it is all the more inappropriate that a firearm is fired at a fleeing suspect.

they also could argue that there was no way to know if he didn't already have a weapon on him.

Mr. Brooks consented to a pat-down search of his body when he first exited his automobile in order to satisfy the officers’ interest to know that he was not armed.

 

[KaraBulut]

Re: news anchor with 35 yr career "cancelled" after calling Floyd a "POS"

explain why that law needs to be changed.

We have laws about what government can do in a citizen's private space. If you're sitting in your car asleep, you're in a private space and you're not endangering anyone. If the car is in gear, it might be argued that you're driving and therefore a risk to the public but we're getting into hypotheticals.

In the US, we've overburdened the police with things that aren't police matters. Perhaps if they weren't busy with people asleep in their cars, they might be able to work on that backlog of unsolved sexual assault cases, for example.

...from my understand of the situation, Brooks already had a warrant for his arrest for something else, so regardless if he was given a pass for driving intoxicated he was likely going to be arrested either way.

I haven't heard that. What I have heard is that he was on probation after a felony conviction from 6 years ago.

On the other hand, Garrett Rolfe, the officer who shot him, had 4 prior complaints against him for excessive force.

...the danger wasn't from him being parked idly. the danger was him physically assaulting the police, taking their taser and firing it them. he escalated the situation and they reacted in self defense.

That should be on the list with not tugging on superman's cape, not spitting into the wind and not pulling the mask off that old lone ranger.

 

[ClubLevelVegan]

I mean, I feel like any other job people would be fired for doing this. Literally just refusing doing their job.

Some Atlanta police stay out of work for a third day after officers charged in fatal shooting of Rayshard Brooks

 

[Rex]

I mean, I feel like any other job people would be fired for doing this. Literally just refusing doing their job.

Some Atlanta police stay out of work for a third day after officers charged in fatal shooting of Rayshard Brooks

if they fire them, who is going to take their place? you think anyone is jumping at the opportunity to be a cop in todays age when you're going to be demonized by the media regardless of how you do your job? especially so if you're a white cop.

 

[ClubLevelVegan]

if they fire them, who is going to take their place? you think anyone is jumping at the opportunity to be a cop in todays age when you're going to be demonized by the media regardless of how you do your job? especially so if you're a white cop.

Being held accountable, what a terrible thing.

 

[ClubLevelVegan]

Also want to put into perspective how silly it is to think that Police are being "demonized." Considering the fact that Police who actually do their job aren't the ones being demonized. Years ago I worked both as a stocker and a cashier in my place of work. In those jobs I was held more accountable than Cops are at their jobs, which is an infinitely more important job in our society. What would have happened to me if I didn't do my job for 3 days because I was "supporting" another employee not being treated "right"? I would be fired. What would happen if I even accidentally hurt someone at my job? At the least suspended (without pay, unlike cops) and the the more likely scenario, fired. And I wouldn't be hired by another precinct in another County, I would not be able to get a job with the same company again and it would effect my chances at other places I was looking for a job at. I could go on with more examples, but there is no real point because I am pretty sure the picture is pretty clear. It's absolute joke that being a Cop isn't held to a higher standard in our society.

 

[Rex]

^
like to dislike ratio, well good to see most people aren't buying into this notion that this man was some hero who is oppressed. because he def wasn't and these videos were apparently taken when he was in court for beating his wife and children.

 

[ClubLevelVegan]

^
like to dislike ratio, well good to see most people aren't buying into this notion that this man was some hero who is oppressed. because he def wasn't and these videos were apparently taken when he was in court for beating his wife and children.

You keep saying this, that people are treating him like a hero, but they're really not. It's hard to have a discussion with someone about the topic when they're plugging their ears so they can only hear what supports their position or agenda.

 

[Rex]

You keep saying this, that people are treating him like a hero, but they're really not. It's hard to have a discussion with someone about the topic when they're plugging their ears so they can only hear what supports their position or agenda.

you know what I mean. he is viewed by many as victim or sort of martyr figure now. guarantee there will be murals across large cities in the US being painted in honor of him.

 

[KaraBulut]

you know what I mean. he is viewed by many as victim or sort of martyr figure now. guarantee there will be murals across large cities in the US being painted in honor of him.

The murals are George Floyd, not Rayshard Brooks.

 

[ClubLevelVegan]

you know what I mean. he is viewed by many as victim or sort of martyr figure now. guarantee there will be murals across large cities in the US being painted in honor of him.

So? If people see fit to have a mural of him I don’t see how that affects my day even if I did have a problem with him. I mean obviously the guy had Family/Friends that cared about him regardless of his problems. Despite the character you’re trying to push Family and Friends still love and care about an individual despite their faults and problems.

 

[opinterph]

[Rayshard Brooks] is viewed by many as victim or sort of martyr figure now.

• A victim is the recipient of a criminal act.

• A martyr (Greek: μάρτυς, mártys, "witness"; stem μάρτυρ-, mártyr-) is someone who suffers persecution and death for advocating, renouncing, refusing to renounce, or refusing to advocate a religious belief or cause as demanded by an external party.