Rayshard Brooks killed by Atlanta Police [SPLIT]

[Dominus]

In a way, these cops that got charged in this case (even though some experts are saying it was justified deadly force) are paying for past cases like Philando Castile. Everybody in the world thought that cop who killed Philando Castile was guilty as sin. And yet he got off scotch free.

 

[KaraBulut]

In a way, these cops that got charged in this case (even though some experts are saying it was justified deadly force) ...

I've seen no expert opinion saying this was justified deadly force. If Brooks were shot when he reached for the officer's weapon, maybe. Shooting a unarmed fleeing suspect in the back is really difficult to justify. The officer could claim that he thought the suspect was pointing a weapon toward him instead of the taser but the suspect had just had a patdown, so he's going to have to explain that.

Discharging a weapon in a parking lot full of innocent bystanders is also going to be a risk- 1 of the 3 bullets fired hit an occupied vehicle.

What I have heard experts say is that this was a very long encounter- 45 mins. The suspect is impaired- he keeps falling asleep which doesn't match having a BAC of 1.0. There were several points where it all could have been de-escalated but instead, multiple wrong turns were made and several errors in judgment were made.

 

[Dominus]

I've seen no expert opinion saying this was justified deadly force. If Brooks were shot when he reached for the officer's weapon, maybe. Shooting a unarmed fleeing suspect in the back is really difficult to justify. Discharging a weapon in a parking lot full of innocent bystanders is also going to be a risk- one of the bullets hit an occupied vehicle.

 

[KaraBulut]

 

[KaraBulut]

I tried to find an analysis done by an expert who worked for the ATF but I couldn't. This article makes many of the same points that he did:

Rayshard Brooks video: Legal scholars break down key moments in shooting timeline [USA Today]

I think this part of the analysis is probably the most important thing to understand- that the officer had to make a decision about proportionate force to match resistance. At this point, there were several errors in judgment that had been made but it was at this point that the fatal decision was made and the officer discharged his weapon at a suspect who was fleeing.

Harris, who hosts the podcast Criminal Injustice, says the basic rules regarding reasonable use of force are fairly consistent across police departments.

“The basic idea is that force is divided into levels, usually I think in terms of six levels, and you’re allowed as a police officer to use enough force to overcome the resistance you face,” Harris said. “If you’re facing no resistance you don’t get to use any force except what’s necessary to handcuff an individual.”

As Brooks pulled away, Harris says officers would be allowed to use enough force to overcome Brooks' resistance...

This is the main point of focus for Gardner, who says the first step is to look at Georgia law with respect to deadly force.

“The question is whether the officer reasonably believed this course was necessary to prevent the officer’s death or suffering serious bodily injury,” Gardner said.

 

[Dominus]

^ To be clear, I'm not taking either side on this one. I will say that back when I was a cop if someone pointed a taser at me he would have gotten a bullet in his face. I don't care how politically incorrect that sounds.

 

[KaraBulut]

^ To be clear, I'm not taking either side on this one. I will say that back when I was a cop if someone pointed a taser at me he would have gotten a bullet in his face. I don't care how politically incorrect that sounds.

And that's a very American viewpoint. The ubiquity of guns, the casual discussions of ending someone's life... it's part of a bigger problem outside he scope of the discussions. Practically speaking, though, to shoot him in the face, you would have to get him to turn around, though since he was running away.

Reaching for an officer's weapon is stupid. It was a lethal mistake by someone who was impaired and panicked, probably because he was on probation and this arrest would have sent him back to prison.

In the article, they do give the officer the benefit of the doubt that, in the heat of the moment, he may not have processed the fact that the Taser had been fired already and could not be used again. But this officer had previous citations for use of excessive force and he made a very bad call on this one.

He had the guy's license. He had the guy's car. The guy could have run but eventually, he was going to be captured and sent to jail. Instead, he's dead. The public will accept officers killing a citizen but there has to be a really good reason. In this case, the use of force didn't match the risk to the officers or the public and I'm not sure a jury is going to let him off.

 

[gsdx]

@aristomaniac

Now I understand what's going on today.

 

[Dominus]

And that's a very American viewpoint. The ubiquity of guns, the casual discussions of ending someone's life... it's part of a bigger problem outside he scope of the discussions. Practically speaking, though, to shoot him in the face, you would have to get him to turn around, though since he was running away.

Reaching for an officer's weapon is stupid. It was a lethal mistake by someone who was impaired and panicked, probably because he was on probation and this arrest would have sent him back to prison.

In the article, they do give the officer the benefit of the doubt that, in the heat of the moment, he may not have processed the fact that the Taser had been fired already and could not be used again. But this officer had previous citations for use of excessive force and he made a very bad call on this one.

He had the guy's license. He had the guy's car. The guy could have run but eventually, he was going to be captured and sent to jail. Instead, he's dead. The public will accept officers killing a citizen but there has to be a really good reason. In this case, the use of force didn't match the risk to the officers or the public and I'm not sure a jury is going to let him off.

Bolded. Are you kidding? They acquitted the dude that shot Philando Castile, and that officer was guilty as sin.

I have no doubt that the two cops in this case will both be acquitted.

They will crucify Chauvin, though.

 

[TX-Beau]

^ To be clear, I'm not taking either side on this one. I will say that back when I was a cop if someone pointed a taser at me he would have gotten a bullet in his face. I don't care how politically incorrect that sounds.

Yeah, you tossed in that bullshit about "politically correct" because you know damn well that this isn't "politically incorrect" it's just fucking obscene. Thank God no one trusts you with a badge anymore.

Way to underline everything that's wrong with the police so succinctly.

 

[Rex]

In a way, these cops that got charged in this case (even though some experts are saying it was justified deadly force) are paying for past cases like Philando Castile. Everybody in the world thought that cop who killed Philando Castile was guilty as sin. And yet he got off scotch free.

agreed, it was justified force. nobody would be even talking about this if it wasn't a case of "white police and black guy". if the police was black or any other combination of skin colors, most wouldn't be batting an eyelash. and they're paying for what Derek Chauvin did which is also not right since the situations were different.

 

[TX-Beau]

...He had the guy's license. He had the guy's car. The guy could have run but eventually, he was going to be captured and sent to jail. Instead, he's dead. The public will accept officers killing a citizen but there has to be a really good reason. In this case, the use of force didn't match the risk to the officers or the public and I'm not sure a jury is going to let him off.

There's going to be one side of the public, screaming for his head, there's going to be another side of the public snickering and yelling he deserved it, there's going to be the apathetic, and the rubberneckers, and the parasitic hangers-on, What there isn't going to be is considered discussion and thought in the public about any of it.

We all know what happens when the protestors go home. They already said there will be no Grand Jury until at least October. Given the state of things in the courts that's very likely going to be pushed back even further. They'll convene, when we've all been distracted by someone else, and unless there is actual legal reform, I'm not talking about cops, I mean reform in the law - this will be no-billed, and there will be no trial, because like it or not, legally speaking the cop has a case.

Ethically he's guilty as sin.

- - - Updated - - -

agreed, it was justified force. nobody would be even talking about this if it wasn't a case of "white police and black guy". if the police was black or any other combination of skin colors, most wouldn't be batting an eyelash. and they're paying for what Derek Chauvin did which is also not right since the situations were different.

[Text: Removed]

 

[Dominus]

Yeah, you tossed in that bullshit about "politically correct" because you know damn well that this isn't "politically incorrect" it's just fucking obscene. Thank God no one trusts you with a badge anymore.

Way to underline everything that's wrong with the police so succinctly.

LOL you say that like it was a bad thing I'm not a cop anymore. I quit to pursue other interests. Not my cup of tea line of work.

Trust me, I have my own complaints of scaredy cat cops.

A couple years ago, I got into a car accident. It was entirely the other woman's fault. Cop came. Took my statement. Took her statement. When she came back with the crash report, I noticed she was also holding a ticket. After explaining what to do with the crash report, she asked if I had any question? I asked her half jokingly is that ticket for me?

All of a sudden, she dropped everything, took a couple steps backward, and put her right hand on her gun and her left hand forward as if I was going to attack her. She then yelled out Sir calm down!

For a split second, I thought I was going to be the next Rodney king as the other cops around gave me a dirty look.

Some cops shouldn't be cops. They fear for their lives at the smallest trigger. May be she had been beaten by an Asian man before?

Anyway, [Text: Removed]. I'm not changing how I feel about this. During the heat of the moment, it is a really bad idea to point a taser at a cop, especially during a physical altercation.

No, I am not some right winger. I still think they should hang Chauvin up by his testicles. And those redneck mouthbreathers who killed Arbery need to be put behind bars for good.

But this case? Not so clear cut.

 

[TX-Beau]

LOL you say that like it was a bad thing I'm not a cop anymore. I quit to pursue other interests. Not my cup of tea line of work.

Trust me, I have my own complaints of scaredy cat cops.

A couple years ago, I got into a car accident. It was entirely the other woman's fault. Cop came. Took my statement. Took her statement. When she came back with the crash report, I noticed she was also holding a ticket. After explaining what to do with the crash report, she asked if I had any question? I asked her half jokingly is that ticket for me?

All of a sudden, she dropped everything, put her right hand on her gun and her left hand forward as if I was going to attack her. She then yelled out Sir calm down!

For a split second, I thought I was going to be the next Rodney king as the other cops around gave me a dirty look.

Some cops shouldn't be cops. They fear for their lives at the smallest trigger. May be she had been beaten by an Asian man before?

Anyway, [Text: Removed]. I'm not changing how I feel about this. During the heat of the moment, it is a really bad idea to point a taser at a cop, especially during a physical altercation.

No, I am not some right winger. I still think they should hang Chauvin up by his testicles. And those redneck mouthbreathers who killed Arbery need to be put behind bars for good.

But this case? Not so clear cut.

[Text: Removed], we need no cops shooting people in the face out of pique. [Text: Removed] If you don't see it, I lack the patience to explain it to you.

 

[Dominus]

[Text: Removed], we need no cops shooting people in the face out of pique. [Text: Removed] If you don't see it, I lack the patience to explain it to you.

Well, I don't think you understand the implications of being incapacitated for 5 seconds, especially as a cop. I know I know, the taser couldn't have fired a third time. But in the heat of the moment, it didn't occur to the cop.

Count with me. One one thousand. Two one thousand. Three one thousand. Four one thousand. Five one thousand. That would be how long I would be incapacitated after being tased. I ain't taking my chances. As a cop, someone points a taser at me I'm gonna defend myself with my gun.

 

[Rex]

Well, I don't think you understand the implications of being incapacitated for 5 seconds, especially as a cop. I know I know, the taser couldn't have fired a third time. But in the heat of the moment, it didn't occur to the cop.

Count with me. One one thousand. Two one thousand. Three one thousand. Four one thousand. Five one thousand. That would be how long I would be incapacitated after being tased. I ain't taking my chances. As a cop, someone points a taser at me I'm gonna defend myself with my gun.

not to mention, any damage you take from falling down. so it could be longer than 5 seconds depending on how you fall. That's more than enough time for someone to disarm your gun. there is another officer there but that doesn't guarantee he'll prevent that from happening.

 

[KaraBulut]

Bolded. Are you kidding? They acquitted the dude that shot Philando Castile, and that officer was guilty as sin.

The times, they are a-changin'.

 

[TX-Beau]

Well, I don't think you understand the implications of being incapacitated for 5 seconds, especially as a cop. I know I know, the taser couldn't have fired a third time. But in the heat of the moment, it didn't occur to the cop.

Count with me. One one thousand. Two one thousand. Three one thousand. Four one thousand. Five one thousand. That would be how long I would be incapacitated after being tased. I ain't taking my chances. As a cop, someone points a taser at me I'm gonna defend myself with my gun.

This is all so much quibble that avoids asking any of the real questions. As a cop, you are there to protect US! You thinking that the public is your enemy who deserved to die at your whim is why you are completely unfit for the job. Anyway, we both know that whole explanation is just there to justify the nasty dismissal of everything wrong in the police department your original comment implied. I give you the credit of thinking you wouldn't actually behave is such a disgusting manner.

If you piss on the public's trust, you reap what you sow.

 

[ClubLevelVegan]

agreed, it was justified force. nobody would be even talking about this if it wasn't a case of "white police and black guy". if the police was black or any other combination of skin colors, most wouldn't be batting an eyelash. and they're paying for what Derek Chauvin did which is also not right since the situations were different.

This is not even true, maybe if you actually looked out of your bubble you would see that? I have seen quite a few videos making the rounds criticizing non-white officers for using excessive force or worse.

edit: Here is an article about one of them.

JSO officer who punched man in Walmart has been investigated 6 times

 

[Dominus]

[Quoted Post: Removed]

I'm sorry you feel this way. Can we talk about this without you hurdling insults my way? Because everytime you hurdle insults, it really does sound like you're angry.

I knew that going in I'll be facing an uphill battle. This often happens when you hold an opinion that is not popular with the particular crowd. I'm now apparently also not allowed to bring up personal experience in the matter because, as another user puts it, it would be me trying to talk about myself.

I'll just have to agree to disagree on this matter. I stand by what I said. Back when I was a cop, someone pointed a taser at me during a phsical altercation I would have shot him. Go ahead and ask other cops you know how they would have handled the situation.