Religion And The American Presidential Election

[greaves]

Religion should play no part in Presidential elections, whether those elections are in the USA or in Iraq.

Yet in the USA there are candidates who are avowed Baptists, Mormons...

And one of the main candidates - Obama - says this idiot is his pastor/inspiration:



Any thoughts?

 

[valis23]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

I'm right there with you. That bozo's church needs to lose its tax-exempt status, along with any other churches where politics is discussed from the podium. Further, I don't think candidates should be allowed to speak in churches.

 

[Spellbound]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

It sickens me when all people talk about is the candidates religious beliefs. There are soooo many other things that could be talked about.

I would love an atheist President. That way I know his or her 'religious beliefs' wouldn't get in the way of his/her common sense. I've had enough religion shoved down my throat over the past 8 years.

 

[star-warrior]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

I doubt you'll see an atheist in office very soon. I think Americans religious organisations haven't progressed much from the Founding Fathers - a bunch of dissatisfied puritanical protestants.

 

[gsdx]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

You can be devoutly religious yet still be a political figure in power. Canada has had a number of extremely religious prime ministers (Catholics Pierre Elliott Trudeau & Jean Chrétien for example) who changed the history of Canada and kept their religions out of their politics. We have legalized gay marriage because Chrétien stood up to Bush and the Pope.

The Canadian Alliance Party, on the other hand, tried to shove its Christian beliefs down Canadian throats and bombed miserably. It's now absorbed into the Conservative Party which is currently in power in Canada. (Bush and Harper are buddy-buddy, doncha know?)

A country cannot run on one religious belief whilst ignoring all others. That is not equality.

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

Religion should play no part in Presidential elections, whether those elections are in the USA or in Iraq.

Um...duh? I'm sorry; I missed the whole memo where we were only supposed to vote for those with some sort of Christian religion. It is interesting that 39% of the population would have voted in an atheist; says something when there's supposedly a religious litmus test...

Any thoughts?

I think that an atheist would have had a chance, until the various fundie atheists started attacking the religious. When you attack someone's faith and do so in a way just to show your own moral and intellectual superiority, then you generally nuke your own chances of being taken seriously.

You also need to show that you are better than the system that you are displacing. Although there a number of secular charities, there are almost no specifically atheist charities (the only one I think of are the various Luther Burbank ones); if you are so better than religion, then you need to provide the same support network as the various churches.

Worse, there is a certain level of academic dishonesty. It's interesting that atheists have no problem pointing out that Christianity starts war simply because the leaders were Christian, but the same argument can't be applied to atheist leaders such as Stalin or Mao. For that matter, it's not even willing to admit that it's a form of religion, despite meeting the criteria of same.

In short, if Atheism wants to be taken seriously, it needs to stop attacking religion, create a support network, and recognize that it is a religion. If it EVER does that, then people may actually be interested in voting one of its adherents in...

RG

 

[Spellbound]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

I doubt you'll see an atheist in office very soon. I think Americans religious organisations haven't progressed much from the Founding Fathers - a bunch of dissatisfied puritanical protestants.

Yeah I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Croynan]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio



that video was released by someone in the McCain campaign organization who has been "retired."

you could probably finds all sorts of examples of people in each of the campaigns of each of the nominees who have similar incidents or other events in their past.

as for the Obama situation, he has already spoken out against the matter and the individual.

it is called politics.

eM.

 

[greaves]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

Was this hilaryrious vid released by a political opponent of Obama raking thru' the video archives?



Look at the date Croynan. It's called news.

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

Was this hilaryrious vid released by a political opponent of Obama raking thru' the video archives?



Look at the date Croynan. It's called news.

It's from The Daily Show; it's not news, it's comedy...Let me rephrase...


RG

 

[greaves]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

Um...duh? I'm sorry; I missed the whole memo where we were only supposed to vote for those with some sort of Christian religion. It is interesting that 39% of the population would have voted in an atheist; says something when there's supposedly a religious litmus test...


I think that an atheist would have had a chance, until the various fundie atheists started attacking the religious. When you attack someone's faith and do so in a way just to show your own moral and intellectual superiority, then you generally nuke your own chances of being taken seriously.

You also need to show that you are better than the system that you are displacing. Although there a number of secular charities, there are almost no specifically atheist charities (the only one I think of are the various Luther Burbank ones); if you are so better than religion, then you need to provide the same support network as the various churches.

Worse, there is a certain level of academic dishonesty. It's interesting that atheists have no problem pointing out that Christianity starts war simply because the leaders were Christian, but the same argument can't be applied to atheist leaders such as Stalin or Mao. For that matter, it's not even willing to admit that it's a form of religion, despite meeting the criteria of same.

In short, if Atheism wants to be taken seriously, it needs to stop attacking religion, create a support network, and recognize that it is a religion. If it EVER does that, then people may actually be interested in voting one of its adherents in...

RG

greaves, in the interest of fair comment, has read this ^ post several times. But it still makes no sense.

Religion should have no place in Presidential elections.

But that, as gsdx pointed out, does not mean Presidential candidates should be atheist/secularist/agnostic/pagan etc...

It means quite simply religion should be kept out of politics.

 

[greaves]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

See:



Any thoughts?

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

greaves, in the interest of fair comment, has read this ^ post several times. But it still makes no sense.

Religion should have no place in Presidential elections.

But that, as gsdx pointed out, does not mean Presidential candidates should be atheist/secularist/agnostic/pagan etc...

It means quite simply religion should be kept out of politics.

Er....Ok. I basically agree with you, and you don't like that. Way to be a troll...

RG

 

[greaves]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

that video was released by someone in the McCain campaign organization who has been "retired."

you could probably finds all sorts of examples of people in each of the campaigns of each of the nominees who have similar incidents or other events in their past.

as for the Obama situation, he has already spoken out against the matter and the individual.

it is called politics.

eM.

Still waiting for an intelligent and up-to-date response croynan...

 

[Alpha1851]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

Still waiting for an intelligent and up-to-date response croynan...

What the fuck is up w/ your pointless name calling? Either stick to arguing the merits of the situation, or shut up. You aren't furthering the discussion otherwise.

For me, I am religious (Catholic), and I am very happy to be a member of my church, and to attend Mass and to read the Bible. If you don't get enjoyment out of those things, or believe that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior, then that's perfectly fine. Luckily in my country, it's completely up to each individual to believe or not believe. I feel the same way about a Presidential candidate. They can believe or not believe in GOD. I don't feel that they should have to hide their religious beliefs anymore than I think a non-believer should have to hide theirs. At the end of the day, all that matters to me, is that they do a great job as our nation's leader.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

I would love an atheist President. That way I know his or her 'religious beliefs' wouldn't get in the way of his/her common sense.[/B] I've had enough religion shoved down my throat over the past 8 years.

Atheists are good at distorting and twisting things on the basis of their atheism, too.


We'll never even keep religion out of the campaigns -- nor should we. Would you want someone like Huckabee to sail through and into office entirely on the basis of non-religious material, when we know he's going to run his office by his religion?

 

[JackFTwist]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

Yet in the USA there are candidates who are avowed Baptists, Mormons...

Yeah and in England the fucking queen is defender of the faith and head of the church.

Go figure.

Straighten your home before you trash on mine.

 

[KaraBulut]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

Religion should play no part in Presidential elections, whether those elections are in the USA or in Iraq.

Any thoughts?

Well, it's played a part in most of the Presidential elections over the past 230 years. I suppose it is possible that this one will be different.

And Dick Cheney might turn out to be a compassionate conservative.

And monkeys might fly out of his ass carrying "Make Love Not War" signs.

Anything is possible if you believe.

 

[pocono]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

When selecting a president or any leader....everything counts.

I'm a Dem and get to vote in a few weeks (April 22). Right now I'm a BIG fan of Obama. His speech on race relations the other day was...OMG perfect.

I don't care much about platforms...the President can only do what the congress allows.

I am, however, interested in reactions...and I LOVE the fact he didn't "throw his friend under the bus." I disagree with many of my friends on many points. That doesn't mean they are not friends. His speech will become part of history. I would want Obama to be my friend and leader.

Obama is the man. There is still a lot of time for him to mess up, but to date...he has not.

 

[frankfrank]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

Um...duh? I'm sorry; I missed the whole memo where we were only supposed to vote for those with some sort of Christian religion. It is interesting that 39% of the population would have voted in an atheist; says something when there's supposedly a religious litmus test...

I'm Christian, and, hell, if I was giving the candidates a maximum of 100 points (to determine the worst to the best), I'd give a candidate 25 or 30 BONUS POINTS for being athiest!

Even though some people will argue that athiesm itself is a religion (because it IS a belief system having to do with our existence or origins), I'd certainly rather have a President shoving that "religion" at us, than shoving the Pat Robertson style of religion at us, which seems to be prevailing nowadays.

Part of the reason the Pastor Wright stuff came up at all, was because Obama was forced to wear his Christian religion on his sleeve, otherwise the vile Spinmeisters would have continued to convince the American public that he is a Muslim - one of the few prejudices in this country which are as intense or perhaps more intense than racial ones. (Of course GAY is another one.)