Remarks by the President on Common-Sense Gun Safety Reform

[Kulindahr]

The reason is irrelevant.
People being local or not is irrelevant.
The maps indicate the resultant deaths in a given region, not culpability or cause.

The outcome is the problem, the causes need to be addressed, not the statistics argued.

Again, you're changing your claim.

And without detailing the specifics of the statistics, no cause can be addressed because it isn't known. So you're arguing against being able to accomplish anything at all.

 

[Kulindahr]

I see "Culture" has become the new fig leaf. I bet he got that from Stormfront.

If so, it's an old one; the Spanish used it in colonial times to justify enslaving the natives in what is now Latin America.

The more things change.....

 

[Kulindahr]

Your concern seems to be about implications around criminal homicide. You don't seem as concerned that the US has an extremely high rate of accidental gun deaths or suicides per 100000 people in different areas.

Actually it's those who have been arguing against benvolio who "don't seem concerned", because of the refusal to separate out the distinct data, instead treating it as though it all represented the threat when two people are interacting, and thus the risk to people who are visiting. Without knowing the specifics of the divisions of the data into suicides, accidents, LE in action, etc., the data are worthless for any practical purpose -- they don't tell us if we're dealing with something particularly depressing about some location, or whether the local LE agencies ought to be investigated, or whether some gunsmith is doing crappy work, or if some gang likes the place to drag people for execution.

Using such broad data is akin to just telling a golf student to "swing better", without addressing whether it's a matter of body position, foot placement, follow-through, elbow control, or what -- it sounds nice, but it's of no value at all.

In short, unless the data are separated into categories, there's no concern at all about anyone in any of the categories, just emotion about the instrument being used.

 

[Kulindahr]

So you do indeed have a double standard.

Yes: he's incredibly tolerant of you.

On a board where I was recently a moderator, I would have been chastised for leaving so many of your posts which are near-identical in their content, under the provision against spam, i.e. repetitious content with nothing new posted in a variety of threads -- and that doesn't even address the hateful attitude! (Though to the latter I would have argued that apparently you don't grasp that you're being hateful, and should be worked with.)

 

[Kulindahr]

^ Give me a fucking break.

You are allowed to spout some of the most outrageous nonsense in thread after thread without getting checked.

In part, I believe, because you are simply being used as a tool.

A grinding whetstone against which we are permitted to sharpen our own arguments against the rampant racism that exists all around us.

So if you do get checked once in awhile....don't run around whining that there is a double standard. It is as a result of your own egregious thread derailments and obsessive anti-immigration and dog whistle racist posts that you are finally hemmed in here and required to adhere to a stricter set of rules than you have been for the last four years.

It has finally made the forum a more interesting place again to exchange thoughts and arguments on topics.

I think part of that "sharpening" should involve questioning whether he actually grasps that he's being racist. Half the time I honestly don't think he sees the problem -- he's like some people I've grown up with, who were so inculcated in a way of thinking and so poor at real critical thinking that they weren't even capable of seeing the issue right in front of them.

 

[Kabluey]

So you do indeed have a double standard.

It's quite obvious that while you're trying to make gays hate immigrants and minorities (unsuccessfully, apart from the occasional insufferable airhead), your clones are on various ’cultural' forums trying to create stoke up hatred of gays among minorities.

There's no double standard from the moderators, you're just less adept than you assume you are.

 

[Kabluey]

Again, you're changing your claim.

And without detailing the specifics of the statistics, no cause can be addressed because it isn't known. So you're arguing against being able to accomplish anything at all.

The outcome at current is bad.
You're just trying to argue the toss because you don't want restrictions on guns.
Arguing over details and sub-trends doesn't change the fact that the overall gun death statistics are appallingly bad for a developed country.

(You're just hoping to be able to argue that the reason people are dying isn't because people like you have easy access to weapons). Don't accuse others of changing their stance when you've performed the most awkward mental gymnastics imaginable during this thread to 'win' against logic.

 

[Benvolio]

It's quite obvious that while you're trying to make gays hate immigrants and minorities (unsuccessfully, apart from the occasional insufferable airhead), your clones are on various ’cultural' forums trying to create stoke up hatred of gays among minorities.

There's no double standard from the moderators, you're just less adept than you assume you are.

You are either dishonest or unable to read. I have always opposed immigration on the basis of its disasterous effect on America, and Americans never hatred or anything like it.

 

[Rolyo85]

Yeah, immigration had a pretty shitty effect on native Americans...

 

[T-Rexx]

But that's not what you said -- you said "interaction with other people".

You seem to be of the opinion the suicide doesn't involve interaction with other people.

BTW, the rejection of rational interpretation of data, i.e. science, here by most people is astounding. It makes evident why it's so easy to lie with statistics.

I happen to be a scientific author with three publications in peer-reviewed journals. I routinely "smooth" data when I present it, because it would be inappropriate NOT to do so.

I used to teach graduate students how to interpret scientific papers. The only "rejection of science" in this thread is yours and Benvolio's. And that is an apt description, since I am convinced that you understand this data, you simply choose to pretend otherwise.

 

[Rolyo85]

Yeah Kuli doesn't love science when it comes to guns.

 

[Benvolio]

You seem to be of the opinion the suicide doesn't involve interaction with other people.




I happen to be a scientific author with three publications in peer-reviewed journals. I routinely "smooth" data when I present it, because it would be inappropriate NOT to do so.

I used to teach graduate students how to interpret scientific papers. The only "rejection of science" in this thread is yours and Benvolio's. And that is an apt description, since I am convinced that you understand this data, you simply choose to pretend otherwise.

If it is technically accurate, it is nevertheless very misleading. [Text: Removed]

 

[Kabluey]

You are either dishonest or unable to read. I have always opposed immigration on the basis of its disasterous effect on America, and Americans never hatred or anything like it.

I can read everything you say.
Regardless of problem, you say the cause is immigration without any proof, supporting statistics or meaningful insight.
You blame immigrants for everything.
Think of the problems blamed on Jews by the Nazi party in the leadup to their genocide. You're speaking the same words.

 

[Benvolio]

I can read everything you say.
Regardless of problem, you say the cause is immigration without any proof, supporting statistics or meaningful insight.
You blame immigrants for everything.
Think of the problems blamed on Jews by the Nazi party in the leadup to their genocide. You're speaking the same words.

That is not true. Liberals are impervious to logic and reject all non-democrat approved sources. If we have too much poverty and unemployment, and bring in millions of more poor poor and unemployed we have more than before and wages will stay low. Duh.
It is not rocket science.

 

[Benvolio]

I am not trying to open another immigration thread.

 

[rareboy]

^ Nice Try.

 

[Kabluey]

I am not trying to open another immigration thread.

Sudden realisation of where you're pushing that barrel?

A big part of the problem is people wanting to think about guns along party lines.
Instead of addressing issues that matter, they're opposed because the other guy said something.

Look at Kuli - gun supporter and liberal - something that apparently shouldn't exist in conservative-land. Conservatives trying to land people like him fail, liberals fear offending him in case he protest votes.
That's how single-issue campaigns arise.

You'd never be mistaken for a rocket scientist.

 

[TX-Beau]

Sudden realisation of where you're pushing that barrel?

A big part of the problem is people wanting to think about guns along party lines.
Instead of addressing issues that matter, they're opposed because the other guy said something.

Look at Kuli - gun supporter and liberal - something that apparently shouldn't exist in conservative-land. Conservatives trying to land people like him fail, liberals fear offending him in case he protest votes.
That's how single-issue campaigns arise.

You'd never be mistaken for a rocket scientist.

Kuli is a Libertarian not a "Liberal" (whatever that terms means these days anyway.)


I am a FLAMINGLY lefty-liberal QUEER boy from Texas and am in fact a gun owner. I don't want restrictions on fire arms, I want RESTRICTIONS ON PEOPLE!!!!



Guns don't kill people people WITH GUNS kill people! REGULATE!!!

 

[Kabluey]

Kuli is a Libertarian not a "Liberal" (whatever that terms means these days anyway.)

I am a FLAMINGLY lefty-liberal QUEER boy from Texas and am in fact a gun owner. I don't want restrictions on fire arms, I want RESTRICTIONS ON PEOPLE!!!!



Guns don't kill people people WITH GUNS kill people! REGULATE!!!

Both valid perspectives, even if I disagree with the gun stances... Heck, even proper conservatism is a valid position, as opposed to closeted racism.

 

[Benvolio]

Sudden realisation of where you're pushing that barrel?

A big part of the problem is people wanting to think about guns along party lines.
Instead of addressing issues that matter, they're opposed because the other guy said something.

Look at Kuli - gun supporter and liberal - something that apparently shouldn't exist in conservative-land. Conservatives trying to land people like him fail, liberals fear offending him in case he protest votes.
That's how single-issue campaigns arise.

You'd never be mistaken for a rocket scientist.

You started another discussion of immigration at 326 , and I closed it.