Rick Santorum’s Anti-College Rant

[chrisrobin]

http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/10/rick-santorums-anti-college-rant/

Translation: Rick Santorum’s Anti-Obama Rant

A horse's ass is a horse's ass is a horse's ass.
-with apologies to Gertrude Stein

 

[JB3]

Rick Santorum is a douchebag on every level, so it takes some digging to get around all the shit he's spewing, but the core of his point seemed to be



in contrast to the idea that all students should be encouraged to go to a 4-year schools (which is a highly prevalent attitude in this country, although Santorum is wrong when he says that Obama himself espoused this)

Which isn't an entirely ridiculous point. College isn't for everyone.

 

[opinterph]

... the idea that all students should be encouraged to go to a 4-year schools (which is a highly prevalent attitude in this country, although Santorum is wrong when he says that Obama himself espoused this)

The President does want more college graduates ...

... in the coming decades, a high school diploma is not going to be enough. Folks need a college degree. They need workforce training. They need a higher education.

I want us to produce 8 million more college graduates by 2020, because -- (applause) -- because America has to have the highest share of graduates compared to every other nation.

The White House

Meanwhile, Gawker's Hamilton Nolan suggests the President's goal “ain't gonna happen” ...

Obama’s College Graduation Goals Are Impossible​

 

[Lostlover]

I might throw up a little agreeing with Rick Santorum on something, but he has a point.

I think it's dumb the way our society forces everyone into pursuing higher education.

there are many, many career paths for which trade schools, apprenticeships, or community colleges are perfectly acceptable paths and don't force teenagers into going hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt.

is the nation really served by subsidizing student loans so someone can get a 5 year BA in Art History so they can get a job shuffling papers around in an accounting firm for the next 40 years? I think Germany's system of vocational schools is something to be admired.

I think the trade school/CC option really needs to be destigmatized in this country.

When does a BA take 5 years (for a non-slacker)?

I would agree with Santorum here, however he has a reason for not liking education. The more educated you are, the less likely you are to vote for the GOP. He isn't being altruistic; he wants a more favorable voting bloc. It's also the GOP's own class warfare: "those thinkers, like Obama, with their fancy high school diplomas, can't relate to us!"

 

[Kulindahr]

I might throw up a little agreeing with Rick Santorum on something, but he has a point.

there are many, many career paths for which trade schools, apprenticeships, or community colleges are perfectly acceptable paths . . . .

Are you aware you just stated Obama's position?

 

[Kulindahr]

Never mind. LEts get back to the subject please. 4 year universities serve a great importance in society, and Santorum is quite mistaken here. I'm not saying here they are for everyone.

Santorum never said universities aren't of great importance.

When does a BA take 5 years (for a non-slacker)?

It's becoming common, verging on standard, for science-based degrees.

 

[hotatlboi]

The GOP has been praising ignorance for a while.

A learned informed populace is their greatest enemy.

 

[Kulindahr]

how many non-slacker art history majors have you known?

I graduated in 4 years with a dual major, but I was going with the average.

yes, which is why I noted in a later post that Santorum is incorrect when he attributes this attitude to "everyone must go to college" attitude to Obama (but it is present in the school system at large)

Clinton was the one with the "everyone go to college!" notion -- and it's screwed us heavily. I've lost the reference, but there was a report a while back that there are three million technical/trade positions going unfilled in this country, and that for every one of those filled there would be three more jobs in support, supply, etc.

The arithmetic is easy: because we've been shunting people to college instead of vocational schools, twelve million people could be employed -- but aren't.


On the four-year thing: I knew a lot of engineering students who took five and a half years instead of four. They studied two years, got into engineering school, then spent half a year in an internship that paid. After finishing their junior years, they did a year's internship that paid even more. Then after their senior years, they took a job with one of the companies in the internship program.

The kool part was that after those internships, they'd paid for over half their college costs, and after their first two years with one of the internship program companies they owed only for their senior year.

One guy I knew got a job not quite an hour from OSU for his junior internship -- he combined school and job and ended up graduating after six years with two entirely different degrees, both with double majors.

 

[chance1]

Never mind. LEts get back to the subject please. 4 year universities serve a great importance in society, and Santorum is quite mistaken here. I'm not saying here they are for everyone.

"never mind" that you as usual jumped the gun w/o FACTS or knowledge about trade schools

I completely agree with Santorum as to:

the value of trade schools
that not all kids are meant to go to college - its not for everybody
our economy is built on skills/jobs other than just college educated positions

if college was for everyone then it wouldn't be so special would it ?

as for his rant about obama/elitism/snobbery, etc.

yech

santorum is getting a bit too caught up in hearing himself talk IMO

but the concept of college is NOT for everyone is accurate IMO

 

[JB3]

When does a BA take 5 years (for a non-slacker)?

I would agree with Santorum here, however he has a reason for not liking education. The more educated you are, the less likely you are to vote for the GOP. He isn't being altruistic; he wants a more favorable voting bloc. It's also the GOP's own class warfare: "those thinkers, like Obama, with their fancy high school diplomas, can't relate to us!"

Anything that requires a certification or license as well as a degree takes more than 4 years. Anyone going into education can plan on more than 4 years, and so can architects.

 

[Lostlover]

how many non-slacker art history majors have you known?

I got into a HUGE blowout/argument with this fat ass who was a history major, in our "Argentina Since Independence" class. She was a full-blown flat earther.

I later found out that the psycho bitch was a 6th year senior. I tore her a new one and the professor just looked on and blushed, presumably embarrassed for the 6th year history major. This was the honors section, so the professor taught the discussion section.

We were just talking baseball before the professor got there and the bitch threw a jab in about liberals. I was like "Aww hell nahh."

 

[Lostlover]

It took me 5 years for my BA because certain classes were cut, overcrowded or scheduled in a weird way (some classes where only once every year). The cutting in funding has caused that, making it more difficult to get classes (this is the case in many states). It has absolutely nothing to being a slacker.

I would have finished faster if it was possible... but classes were in short supply... and often there were significant wait lists (for people hoping that someone would drop).

4 year universities are more important then trade/technical schools, and serve a greater purpose for society. However, I'm not saying it is for everyone.

I take that back. As I was leaving my undergraduate studies, they started doing that class-shrinking shit and adding credit hours for graduation.

I stand corrected about my questioning why it'd take 5 years to get a BA.

Also, I'd like to add a comment: Please don't slander community colleges by grouping them with DeVry. Community Colleges actually have a function and aren't diplomas mills.

 

[Lostlover]

Well it was happening in the last two years of my undergrad. And it made things incredibly difficult, in addition a lot of people were trying to get the classes. Most people don't want to take 5 years to finish a BA... but often people are working at the same time too.

So the combination of class cuts, the need to work, overcrowded classes... makes it incredibly hard for people to finish in 4 years.

I'm not slandering community colleges. I knew several people who went to public community colleges, then had their credits transferred over to finish their last 2 (or so) years to get their BA. They saved some money that way. It is also easier that way to get classes. The general ed classes offered in community colleges typically have more space then those offered in 4 year universities. I was slandering for profits and trade schools (to an extent).

And people, like myself, on full scholarships wanted to get the hell out too. They told me I had tuition paid for for four (wooo!) years, not four years and one semester.

I was trying to get O-U-T!

 

[Lostlover]

What happened to me is I had two minors and got screwed (not in a good way) with classes... stupid urban studies... waste of my time. That was one minor or major I would recommend anyone take... at least not at my campus. So it took me two extra semesters beyond 4 years.

I never understood why people get minors. I was one class away from a Spanish minor.

I took several Spanish classes to learn the language (I was naive). When they told me that I just needed to take a Spanish Poetry class to get a minor, I thought about it. However, once I saw that class get filled my last semester during registration, I said, "Fuck it."

 

[maxpowr9]

I never understood why people get minors. I was one class away from a Spanish minor.

I took several Spanish classes to learn the language (I was naive). When they told me that I just needed to take a Spanish Poetry class to get a minor, I thought about it. However, once I saw that class get filled my last semester during registration, I said, "Fuck it."

I hear ya. I was double major double minor and finished with an absurd 138 credits (needed only 122 to graduate with 1 major). Still completed it in 4 years. Only reason I got my International Studies minor is that you have to have to take an intro to IS course prior to studying abroad and then take a "culture" course abroad to complete the minor which was a freebie minor. My IT minor was an absolute pain due to course offerings. You have to complete both the minor courses and gen ed ones in a specific order or you get shut out of the minor. Don't even get me started on major class electives. Nothing like a week long winter session course. What's funny is, I almost didn't graduate because of some absurd "communication-intensive" requirement which I got the Dean to waive for me.

 

[Lostlover]

^^^Maxpowr9, do they even put the minor on your degree?

If I saw someone applying for a job with two minors, I'd think that he had too much time on his hands. It wouldn't necessarily be a good thing.

 

[maxpowr9]

Yeah it's a bit long.

Bachelors of Science in Economics and Finance
Minor in Computer Information Systems and International Studies

On my diploma, it takes up 5 lines. I had many friends LOL when we got it. Although I didn't get a pretty stamp for honors program like some of my friends .

Now if you want to talk about toilet paper degrees, a masters for many is a complete waste of time. I even regret getting mine; reckon I didn't pay a cent of it directly.

 

[Lostlover]

Yeah it's a bit long.

Bachelors of Science in Economics and Finance
Minor in Computer Information Systems and International Studies

On my diploma, it takes up 5 lines. I had many friends LOL when we got it. Although I didn't get a pretty stamp for honors program like some of my friends .

Now if you want to talk about toilet paper degrees, a masters for many is a complete waste of time. I even regret getting mine; reckon I didn't pay a cent of it directly.

It's not worth it if you don't get that shiny, pretty stamp.

(I don't even know where my diploma is now that I think about it. I don't have my degree mounted at work because there are people at work without degrees who can run circles around me.)

I got my masters in your neck of the woods at a "top notch" program and university. It was impossible to get anything less than a "B." In fact, getting my BS was harder than my masters.

PS: If I saw someone applying for a job with two minors, I'd think that he had too much time on his hands. It wouldn't necessarily be a good thing.

 

[maxpowr9]

It's not worth it if you don't get that shiny, pretty stamp.

(I don't even know where my diploma is now that I think about it. I don't have my degree mounted at work because there are people at work without degrees who can run circles around me.)

I got my masters in your neck of the woods at a "top notch" program and university. It was impossible to get anything less than a "B." In fact, getting my BS was harder than my masters.

PS: If I saw someone applying for a job with two minors, I'd think that he had too much time on his hands. It wouldn't necessarily be a good thing.

As I said, you basically got one minor for simply studying abroad.

Totally true about the masters thing. Nearly all my friends did better in grad school than undergrad, self included. Hell, the GMATs was the hardest part about grad school IMO.

 

[Lostlover]

As I said, you basically got one minor for simply studying abroad.

Totally true about the masters thing. Nearly all my friends did better in grad school than undergrad, self included. Hell, the GMATs was the hardest part about grad school IMO.

And there I was thinking my undergrad prepared me for graduate school.