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Romney campaign in trouble

BP, Nate has had his problems for a while. He wasn't very accurate in 2008. I used to follow him closely -- I think the NYT gig has gone to his head.

He should stick to books and sports.

wsj has a new poll out today as well and it puts ROmney at 43 and Obama at 48 or 49.. can't remember now, but it was on Mika and Joe in the morning.

THis one point spread thing that jack is talking about is weird and I have no idea where it comes from. Multiple polls are saying that poll is wrong and always has been towards romney by one or so points... This is a point of reference to no one but wonks, but the radio of cell phone to house phone calls for the polls is the issue, and the truth is, that the polling houses use one method for both candidates, yet Romney tends to have followers that are more house phone dependent with no cell, and Obama's followers have more than average cell phone users.

It's the big problem with polls.

Check a polls cell to landline call ratio to get at what is realistic and for which candidate.

For this reason, the Poll of polls, and Nate Silvers at the Waashington Post are the two best options for crunching poll numbers into a realistic territory.
 
The poll was taken Sept 11-17 -- it showed Obama's bump from the DNC didn't last.

Well, it's one poll and you've chosen it because it suits your narrative.

From the same period, you are ignoring Reuter's (Obama +5) Monmouth (Obama +3) and Daily KOS (Obama +4)
While his post-convention bounce has shrunk slightly (as expected) his numbers are still better than they were going in.

2012 General Election: Romney vs. Obama
 
Well, it's one poll and you've chosen it because it suits your narrative.

From the same period, you are ignoring Reuter's (Obama +5) Monmouth (Obama +3) and Daily KOS (Obama +4)
While his post-convention bounce has shrunk slightly (as expected) his numbers are still better than they were going in.

2012 General Election: Romney vs. Obama

strong headwinds due to Romney's fuck ups regarding the Ambassador's death, and now the tapes of his money men speech... The bounce is getting cemented in and yesterday was day fifty. Today is day 49 till we vote. Romney is out of time on redefining himself, and this set of video's that are going to drip out slowly from Mother Jones... and done so for their own monetary gain, not Obama or Romney?

I can't see how Romney and anyone that supports him can reasonably expect things to change for a few weeks, and then?

It's October and Debate month. IMO, Romney has very little chance of changing minds now in those debates. Unless Obama has a stroke on stage or Romney gets a new personality by then, The polls are hardening. Romney rarely ever pulled ahead of the president in actual numbers, only close and within a statistical tie.

Not only that, but Pennsylvania is now polling at 50 Obama, and 39 Romney. One less swing state for Romney to pick up now. The electoral college is going more strongly for Obama than the national polls. There was a belief for a month or so, that this race could end with Obama not winning the popular vote, but taking it through the electoral college. Now it's beginning to look like Obama will sweep Romney in both.

It won't be a landslide, but it will take out some GOP members in congress who thought they were safe.
 
Not only that, but Pennsylvania is now polling at 50 Obama, and 39 Romney. One less swing state for Romney to pick up now. The electoral college is going more strongly for Obama than the national polls.

Barack Obama won Pennsylvania, in 2008, by a margin of D+10.31. Supposing, for a brief exercise, he takes Pa. by 11 points: that would mean he's winning this election by more than the so-close margin, nationally, than what these pollsters have been indicating.

By the way: Pa. isn't a swing state (which implies it can be won over by either side). It's a base state for the Democrats. It is bluer than how the country votes (the points by which it can vary, say, between +3 with Obama and +5 with John Kerry).

There was a belief for a month or so, that this race could end with Obama not winning the popular vote, but taking it through the Electoral College. Now it's beginning to look like Obama will sweep Romney in both.

Problem is that Mitt Romney hasn't shifted the John McCain-held states far enough for this scenario. If he were to unseat Obama, all McCain-carried states would naturally be there … but on average a good 8 or 10 points redder is how all states would shift. That maybe one or two states would deviate. Obama won the popular vote, in 2008, by D+7.26. So, 8 points would deliver the popular vote to Romney by about R+0.75.

Romney, if he were win over the popular vote along with the Electoral College, would have to carry core Republican states similar to George W. Bush's two elections. For example, in the Dakotas, he'd have to nab 60 percent of the statewide vote, win them by a minimal margin of R+21, and then win Texas by over R+20, get a flip in North Carolina by around R+10 and, likewise, Indiana would have to be well past R+10 (Bush won it in 2004 by R+20.68). In Election 2008, Obama won pickups in Ind. (D+1.03) and N.C. (D+0.33). McCain carried Texas (R+11.76), just over 10 points, while he was just under that amount in North Dakota (R+8.65) and South Dakota (R+8.41).

If we were to have a split (Electoral College for Obama; U.S. Popular Vote for Romney), Obama would barely pull across the 270. He would start off with 359 (reallocated from his 2008-winning score of 365) and lose: Ind. (11), Nebraska #02 (1), N.C. (15), Florida (29), and Ohio (18). And then we'd see a split in Virginia (13) and Colorado (9). The two have had margin spreads from each other closely connected since 1996 that never exceed 3.53 (from 2004, when Bush won Va. by R+8.20 and Colo. by R+4.67). So, Va., which flipped and carried in 2008 for Obama by D+6.30 (while Colo. was a pickup by D+8.95), would fall first. You add Va. to the mix, and that draws down Obama to a bare win of 272 electoral votes.

Do I buy into the feasibility of it? No.

It won't be a landslide, but it will take out some GOP members in congress who thought they were safe.

It should be a landslide of winning the U.S. Popular Vote by a minimum of D+10. President Obama won Election 2008, over McCain, by D+7.26. Every president, elected to two full terms, but Woodrow Wilson had an increase with their electoral-vote count. (Wilson went from 435, in 1912, to 277, in 1916.) It's actually a typical pattern. In 1996 and 2004, respectively, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush gained 3 percentage points in their national margins for a second full term. Ronald Reagan gained nearly 8.5. Richard Nixon, facing the non-competitive George McGovern, gained close to 22.5 points. Dwight Eisenhower increased by just over 4.5.
 
it was considered a swing state in the beginning of this election, and it was a great prize that the GOP had put it back on the map.

Romney lost that advantage as well as so many others.

Your; math is odd and I don't agree with your annalysis, but I thank you for putting time and thought into a response.

I respectfully disagree with most of it.

Politics is more fluid than you are modeling, and the changes are more radical than you are assuming. IF we were to follow common sense statistics, Obama should be in the basement with 8.1 to 8.3 unemployment.

Common assumptions are getting thrown out of the window, and all because the GOP congress is hated, and Romney is looking like the reincarnation of Mr Howell.

Really. Things are not as static as you are projecting.

Thanks again for taking the time to answer seriously. I appreciate it!

ps.. I don't often give compliments.;)
 
The poll was taken Sept 11-17 -- it showed Obama's bump from the DNC didn't last.

I didn't say that Romney's campaign didn't have problems - they do.

I suppose they have the same infighting as the Obama campaign -- it's just that Obama's team has the MSM in it's pocket.

The MSM really don't like Obama that much. It's just that the alternative is disgusting.
 
[Pennsylvania] was considered a swing state in the beginning of this election, and it was a great prize that the GOP had put it back on the map.

Pennsylvania was also considered a battlegound in 2008, an election year that saw the White House flip parties. News media and polling firms, whomever, were full of shit with 2008 Pennsylvania.


I posted all states' margins from Election 2008 at No. 49. But here's what I mean (in case I wasn't clear enough) on saying Pennsylvania is a Democratic base state: In order for a Republican to win it, he will have to win the U.S. Popular Vote by a substantial enough margin in order to pull in states that tilt Democratic. Since the 1990s, no Republican has won the popular vote by more than 2004 George W. Bush's R+2.46. Pa. was in John Kerry's column by D+2.50. (That means Pa. voted 4.96% bluer than the nation in Election 2004.) Pa. has had a Democratic tilt since at least 1960, because, thereafter, every Republican president who carried the state (1972 Richard Nixon, 1980 and 1984 Ronald Reagan, and 1988 George Bush) underperformed their statewide margin in Pa. relative to their popular-vote victory. To call Pa. a "swing" state pretty much says that the state is not immune to swinging. But that's in accordance to a given election's national shift (the word I prefer over swing). If we go several points Republican or several points Democratic … Pa. is not immune to shifting in such direction. But then again, you can say the same about nearly every state in the nation in elections which result in flipping the presidency (from D to R or R to D).


Your; math is odd and I don't agree with your annalysis, but I thank you for putting time and thought into a response.

It's not so much whether people agree with me. What I'm doing is interpreting some of these numbers and saying what I think they may mean. And I put forth scenarios, which was the purpose of that thread (link, above).

Politics is more fluid than you are modeling, and the changes are more radical than you are assuming.

Historical voting patterns are not necessarily radical. You can get a radical change. Realignments have happened from time to time. But as I was saying with Pa., now that is a base state with the Democrats, is that there are certain nuances with particular states which vote alike. (With the exception of 1840, Alabama and Mississippi voted the same since their first in 1820.) That they have, over the long term (last 100 years or beyond). And that's what I would say about Pa. That if a Republican were to win the popular vote by a margin sufficient to flip Pa. … Pa. wouldn't be the only Democratic base state poised to fall (from D to R). I think right away of Michigan. I think of Connecticut and Maine out of New England. I think of New Jersey. I think of, out west, Washington and Oregon. The last two flipped from R to D in 1988. The rest joined the Ds in 1992. Conn. was the only one of those states, in 2008, that Obama carried over 20 points. Pa. was just over 10 points. The rest were between 15 and 18 points for Obama. If Mitt Romney were playing so well in Pa. then he's doing likewise in his birth state of Mich. (That 11-point Pa. lead, for Obama, is better than the president's polling lead in Mich. And Obama won Mich. a good six points better than Pa. An example of why some of these polling numbers do not jive.)

Really. Things are not as static as you are projecting.

In election years where the incumbent gets re-elected to a second full term, often times they are. In 2004, just three states switched colors as George W. Bush lost New Hampshire but won pickups in Iowa and New Mexico. In 1996, five states had color switches as Bill Clinton gave up Colorado, Georgia, and Montana but won pickups in Arizona and Florida. Ronald Reagan didn't lose a single state, and added five to his 44 (from 1980) to come out to 49 of 50 (for 1984). Richard Nixon, because of unviable George McGovern, is the one with the radical outcome because of his dramatically improved margin: he won 32 states in 1968 and had a pickup of 17 of the remaining 18 for 1972. And Dwight Eisenhower, with re-election in 1956, saw color switches in four states: he lost Missouri but won over Kentucky, Louisiana, and West Virginia. During this period, re-elections for Nixon and Reagan came with an additional 219 and 36, respective, electoral votes. All the rest were less than 25. Which suggests not such a radical change (for the most part) when it comes to re-electing an incumbent.
 
I'd like to see polls with 5k in the sample size. So many of those have less than a thousand....

Isn't the perfect poll size about 1127 people or something like that? I haven't had to do one in so long....
 
Isn't the perfect poll size about 1127 people or something like that? I haven't had to do one in so long....

Example of a bad poll is if it's just one day. And another is if it's too many days. And the source of the polling, whether it's from an outfit that has demonstrated a knack from producing skewed results favoring one party over the other.

Closer to what's recommended is a three-day poll.

Then you have took at the crosstabs (for such reports that offer them) to see whether any demographic was undersampled or oversampled. Helps to compare to previous election that was a presidential year, particularly looking at the two genders and the racial backgrounds that were the previous cycle's turnout. And, yes, the self-identified Republicans and Democrats and Independents do merit consideration.
 
Nope, I chose it because I was lazy and saw it at the top of the Drudge Report.

I'm not a complicated man Andy.

Well, it's one poll and you've chosen it because it suits your narrative.

From the same period, you are ignoring Reuter's (Obama +5) Monmouth (Obama +3) and Daily KOS (Obama +4)
While his post-convention bounce has shrunk slightly (as expected) his numbers are still better than they were going in.

2012 General Election: Romney vs. Obama
 
Nah! Both PPP and WaPo are Democrat polls. Nationally, rasmussen has Romney + 2, Gallup Obama +. 1. Colo, rasmussen has Romney +2, Fla Gravis has Romney + 1

Realistically it is still too nip and tuck. I still predict a landslide for Romney. Over confidence is becoming the predominate mindset among Dems, a big problem for Dems who have to appeal to the most lethargic of voters.
Obama's foreign policy is in shambles while he campaigns oblivious of anything else.
The Dems have foolishly made welfare dependency an issue is the campaign. They already
had the pro-welfare vote, but they have aroused the voters who resent the hoards of freeloaders.
 
A good report on tonights NBC news. They reported the whole Romney secret video. These Latinos ought to get heated up here.:lol:
 
There is a poll just came out of Virginia. Well two. Virginia was considered in good reaching distance for Mitt Romney.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2012 - Virginia: Romney vs. Obama

WP has Obama with a 5% lead in Virginia, and PPP has him ahead by 8%. This is a state where just two weeks ago Romney had a 5% lead in and while a battleground state, is often Republican leaning.

Romney is indeed in trouble. Virginia represents a more conservative state.

Virginia is actually more like two different states; northern Virginia, where I live, is much more likely to vote Democratic versus southern Virginia, which is the opposite.

However, that has not precluded good politicians from either party being elected in areas that would normally be opposite their previous partyline votes.

Virginia politics can be interesting at times; this year is the Senate race between two former Governors, Tim Kaine (D), versus George Allen (R). The ads until recently have been more negative about each other; just heard a couple this week that each candidate put out touting their own accomplishments when Governor, etc.
 
A good report on tonights NBC news. They reported the whole Romney secret video. These Latinos ought to get heated up here.:lol:

Sure, because hispanics get government charity but BO already had the hispanic vote. The big question is, how many working, taxpaying Americans will get heatedup about have to support all those hispanics.
 
Prove rassmussen is garbage. In 2008 it was the most accurate.
 
I've always been the same guy. However when a couple second search of Google doesn't get me the same results as what you post I demand links. Just so we are clear nobodies word means a whole bunch to me because this is Al Gore's invented internets and people tend to lie.

[Text: Removed by Moderator]

as for romney being in trouble ........ he's been in varying degrees of trouble for some time now

and only rasmussen has kept him in the lead or within a point

the rest have it going low to mid singles for obama

worse is that the swing states are swinging more - ohio is financially much better off than the rest of the country - lower unemployment thus the economy sucks message - and it does - doesn't hit home

florida is a mystery

as joe scarborough says, it's too conservative for jeb bush but has israel hating obama up by a couple - go figure

who knows maybe obama will break out his muslim garb for one of the debates

in mitt's dreams

"romney campaign in trouble"

as my father used to say "no shit sherlock"
 
No it wasn't. It was actually the most inaccurate. Rasmussen has a notorious reputation of oversampling republicans and they were inaccurate in both 2008 and 2010 (surprisingly).

Rasmussen Polls Were Biased and Inaccurate; Quinnipiac, SurveyUSA Performed Strongly - NYTimes.com

Oh and before you dismiss Nate Silver, you should realize he carries significant weight. You have provided ZERO proof for your claims. Rasmussen is a republican wing bag poll.

Agreed, rassmussen is thought of as a conservative outlier and Nate is considered the best in the game...|

Sour grapes can't change reality. ;)
 
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