Sailor speaks out

[80KGold]

Damn. He is a hotty. I like the G. Shep., too.

 

[Apollo]

Before I read the story and get angry. I gotta say DAMN! what a fine looking man!

Ok now to get serious. Sorry for that inapproriate off topic post

 

[Apollo]

wow I really have a lot of respect for him after reading that interview. let's hope his efforts continue to inspire and hopefully push DADT out of the law books

 

[archive]

not to be a dick...but dadt needs to go...but this story is not the reason why

 

[archive]

I don't know if you're a dick or not but please elaborate why his story is not one of the reasons that DADT needs to go?

He got discriminated against for being gay. He's a perfect example and a victim of that law. He was abused and harassed for 2 years. His openness about being harassed and hazed by his fellow sailors ended up getting him kicked out of the service under DADT.

I'm not following...What is it about him or this story?

no hes not...hes a victim of stereotyping...nothing more nothing less...which would have happened if dadt wasnt in place...

read it again...he was targeted because he wasnt the same as the other guys....they didnt prosecute him bc he was gay...but bc he was not interested in the conversations of sexual conquest....which made them believe he was gay...because people are idiots...that happens in social groups, college, high school, etc etc etc....he was persecuted by a bigot...who will apply his twisted logic to gays and straights...

ive been saying this for awhile...people think when dadt is repealed its going to be all roses...but there will be many stories you will never hear about...or worse yet...choose not to believe

i will say this if the story was he came out and then he was targeted....it would be a totally different story...but that is not what happened.....just a member of a team that was not part of the boys club because he was different...

 

[Ambrocious]

Poor guy...he's pretty hot but none of this should have happened to him. Why do humans have to treat each other with so much hatred?

 

[NickCole]

no hes not...hes a victim of stereotyping...nothing more nothing less...which would have happened if dadt wasnt in place...

read it again...he was targeted because he wasnt the same as the other guys....they didnt prosecute him bc he was gay...but bc he was not interested in the conversations of sexual conquest....which made them believe he was gay...because people are idiots...that happens in social groups, college, high school, etc etc etc....he was persecuted by a bigot...who will apply his twisted logic to gays and straights...

ive been saying this for awhile...people think when dadt is repealed its going to be all roses...but there will be many stories you will never hear about...or worse yet...choose not to believe

i will say this if the story was he came out and then he was targeted....it would be a totally different story...but that is not what happened.....just a member of a team that was not part of the boys club because he was different...

Well said.

 

[NickCole]

And I'll add that even though Rocha is clearly a victim, "hero" seems unearned. He didn't stand up to or report the abuse when it happened or right afterward so the abusers could be held accountable and nobody else would be subjected to it. That would have been heroic. He says himself that a reason they weren't court martialed was probably that he waited too long. And ultimately he was not discharged against his wishes because he was gay -- he says he "resigned."

All that said, he survived terrible treatment, he seems like a good and decent man and I applaud the work he's doing now. It's awful when a group gangs up on someone, and it happens in lots of ways in this country. We'd have a stronger society if that behavior were condemned no matter when or where it happens.

 

[Apollo]

no hes not...hes a victim of stereotyping...nothing more nothing less...which would have happened if dadt wasnt in place...

read it again...he was targeted because he wasnt the same as the other guys....they didnt prosecute him bc he was gay...but bc he was not interested in the conversations of sexual conquest....which made them believe he was gay...because people are idiots...that happens in social groups, college, high school, etc etc etc....he was persecuted by a bigot...who will apply his twisted logic to gays and straights...

ive been saying this for awhile...people think when dadt is repealed its going to be all roses...but there will be many stories you will never hear about...or worse yet...choose not to believe

i will say this if the story was he came out and then he was targeted....it would be a totally different story...but that is not what happened.....just a member of a team that was not part of the boys club because he was different...

Very true. It will get worse before it gets better. As everyone tries to get used to the idea.

Great thing is Obama has told his generals to begin preparing for it a while ago. So it will hopefully go smoother than if it was sudden.

 

[cklover]

.......Why do humans have to treat each other with so much hatred?

You need look no further than this site for examples of hatred. Read the posts in CE&P as well as elsewhere and you will see how much most people here hate Republicans, Sarah Palin, George Bush, Christians, straights, etc. Sure, a lot of members on here preach respect and tolerance and demand it, but rarely do these same people give it.

 

[cklover]

Being critical and having a dislike or disdain for alot of those people are nothing compared to having been bashed, refered to as perverts, killed, demonized, disrespected, humiliated, denied being at a loved one's death bed, denied rights, discriminated against, fired for being gay, using scripture to justify their ignorance and hatred, etc...When words become action and these people are treated the way we have treated then we would be on the same level of hatred, ignorance, intolerance and disrespect. As of now, criticsm and dislike are more than justified. IMO.

You're wrong. Hatred is hatred. What you are saying is that varying degrees of hatred is acceptable.

 

[NickCole]

He is a hero to me.
He would have been discharged anyway because he was gay.

Once again, you're just making that up.

What evidence do you have that he would have been discharged anyway because he was gay?

He was justified in resigning just based on the fact that he was abused.

He was no longer being victimized; he was safe and realizing his dream, according to him.

Still, I don't condemn him for quitting, I just don't think it's heroic.

 

[NickCole]

"His openness about being hazed by his fellow sailors ended up getting him kicked out of the service under “don’t ask, don’t tell.”"

Look, I have nothing against the guy but heroic would have been opening up about being hazed when it would have done some good, got the abusers court martialed and put them out of commission. Nothing heroic about whining about it later.

Also, being gay gets you discharged Nick.

No it doesn't.

Lots of gays serve in the military. Some of them even post here at JUB.

Amazing that you don't even understand what Don't Ask Don't Tell is.

 

[NickCole]

"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" can and will result in the discharge of a soldier if they reveal, talk about or engage in homosexual behavior while serving.

So what part of that law is making any of you not understand how this soldier is any different than any other gay person being discharged over their sexuality? Had he remained in service, under DADT, he would have been discharged. Why are we having a hard time understanding the law?

I understand the law just fine, Stacy.

A lot of gay men and women serve in the military, some for many years, and are not discharged under DADT. That includes some of our fellow JUBers.

Under DADT gay men and lesbians can serve in the military, only not openly as gay. What aren't you understanding about DADT?

Rocha outed himself. He says in that interview that he resigned. If he hadn't outed himself, there's no indication he'd have been outed by anyone else and then discharged under DADT.

 

[NickCole]

Secretly. Most of the military guys who post here are doing so under the radar. They won't post pictures, their real names or any other telling information. You never know when your superior is going to decide to enact the DADT policy. Don't pretend that nobody is at risk of being discharged due to sexuality. All is takes is one wrong move and an investigation can and will be started, resulting in the discharge of the soldier if and when their sexuality is revealed.

Stacy, I'm a gay man with gay friends who've been in the military. I was in my 30s when we worked our tails off to elect Clinton in part because he said he was going to clear the way for gays to serve openly in the military, and then followed the news day by day as that got squeezed down into Don't Ask Don't Tell. I know exactly what DADT is and what it means to gays serving in the military.

Barack Obama promised he'd work to repeal DADT and DOMA. Been almost a year and Congress can't even get DADT legislation through, and Obama's backing people like ex-Republican Spector against people like Sestak who has actually been very active in trying to get a DADT repeal through Congress. Maybe you should write a letter to Barack Obama who would rather spend his time playing golf and giving interviews to The Times about his marriage than be the fierce advocate he promised to be for us.

 

[NickCole]

What was he supposed to do? He reported the abuse and fought against it. He obviously wasn't happy being abused and kept quiet. He could have just endured it and never spoken about it. Then there would have been more victims.

I think what he did was just fine.

But it was not heroic.

Amazing that YOU don't understand DADT. But let me post it for you:

I don't need your silly Wiki copy & paste of DADT. I was an adult following the news every day when DADT was being battled over and negotiated.

And it was you, not I, who said, "Also, being gay gets you discharged Nick," which is flatly not true.

 

[NickCole]

"His openness about being hazed by his fellow sailors ended up getting him kicked out of the service under “don’t ask, don’t tell.”"

"And the difference with me was that hazing took its focus, as ordered by my chief, was specifically based on my sexuality."

And there's no indication whatsover that he wasn't going to be invistigated for being gay. That's just the usual procedure. Just the fact that he reported the abuse and mentioned that he was singled out or perceived gay and got kicked out means that he was a victim of DADT.
He didn't need to come out. They already had suspicions and would have seeked evidence to discharge him.
If they were given the chance to prove that he was gay, the abuse would have been disregarded and he would have just been discharged and his abuse case ignored.
To them he was already

"an unacceptable risk to the high standards of morale, good order and discipline, and unit cohesion that are the essence of military capability."

because he was suspected of being gay. All that was needed was just a little more time and evidence and he would have been further disgraced.

Nothing in there indicates that if he hadn't outed himself he would have been discharged under DADT. Nothing.

From the interview you linked to:

What was the final straw that brought you to come out in 2007 to your commanding officer?

Well, when I got to the Naval Academy preparatory school I was on my way to my dream of becoming a Naval Academy graduate and a Marine Corps officer, and at first I was full motivation. I got there and I decided these people weren’t going to take from me my dream and that terrible leadership I lived under was going to be an example or more encouragement to become the kind of leader that fits the core values of the military.

But within three months there it really kind of weighed on me how much service had been rewarded in the Middle East with that kind of abuse, the death of my mentor, her suicide, and more, so I had to reflect on what did a life and a career under the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy have to offer me given the way I was treated in the Middle East. That was it. I realized there was no honor or dignity in that policy, and I decided I would resign, not really knowing what would come of that. And with the intent of fighting the policy and civilian world.

He was in the Naval Academy prep school and, in his words, realizing his dream when he decided to resign.

 

[LiquidSky]

You need look no further than this site for examples of hatred. Read the posts in CE&P as well as elsewhere and you will see how much most people here hate Republicans, Sarah Palin, George Bush, Christians, straights, etc. Sure, a lot of members on here preach respect and tolerance and demand it, but rarely do these same people give it.

And many of these people/groups you mentioned have a hatred/dislike of gays. I'm 46 years old and frankly, I'm sick of "playing nice" with these people. Where is THEIR respect and toleranace for ME? I'm no longer the "wall flower" and will call them out on their bullshit.

 

[NickCole]

I am also a gay man and know soldiers like you. It doesn't make you or me for that matter absolute authorities on this law. But I do know enough of it and have my interpretation that other soldiers happen to agree with.

Nobody gay or straight, man or woman, military or civilian, who genuinely understands DADT agrees with your interpretation that "being gay gets you discharged."

That's just typical of the way you make up stuff.

 

[NickCole]

Sorry, but that doesn't make you an authority on this law. I was also an adult following the news too.

Really?

You're older than I thought.

How old an adult were you in 1993?