SCOTUS rejects Brown V Board history

[Andreus]

and

if the only reason you are being held out is because of race then there should be some sort of recourse for you

 

[letme]

To go to that great collage or any collage you should only get there by your own merits. SAT scores SAT scores.. etc. Race nor creed has any role in education.

 

[NickCole]

To go to that great collage or any collage you should only get there by your own merits. SAT scores SAT scores.. etc. Race nor creed has any role in education.

Oh please.

He says this while George Bush is President of the United States.

 

[letme]

Nick,Nick,Nick.........you are slipping it took 23 posts before G.W. was brought into this.

I was hoping we could go for once, without him being brought up but noooooooo.

 

[jtilden21]

I think that some of us may be overlooking something here.

I believe the ppl who have responded here want all kids to have the same opportunities. And, on the surface, limiting race as a decisive factor would tend to suggest that.

However, let's say that the race question were totally eliminated from the schools' districting practices.

If that were to become the case, by demographic statistics, we could end up with schools that are primarily this race and schools that are primarily that race.

That would defeat the idea of de-segregation because of demographics.

I agree that race should not be the only criterion, but , I feel that we must continue to promote de-segregation. Disallowing any mention of race in these instances will make ensuring equality even more difficult.

 

[NickCole]

Nick,Nick,Nick.........you are slipping it took 23 posts before G.W. was brought into this.

I was hoping we could go for once, without him being brought up but noooooooo.

He's the President of the United States; his administration filed a friend of court brief in this case -- you don't want him brought up? Why?

 

[letme]

He's the President of the United States; his administration filed a friend of court brief in this case -- you don't want him brought up? Why?

We are talking merits of getting into schools and I talked of SAT's ets.
Then you bring in Bush,,seeems to me you were impling he is a dummy.

Not to smart but his SAT was higher then Kerry was.

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

Without affirmative action.. some minorities would never get a chance to have great jobs/get into great schools. I don't care how qualified they are.. the minority will always have the disadvantage.

Interestingly, that only applies to blacks; other minorities are doing rather well and their numbers are on parity with the local population. The question thus becomes: What are blacks doing that is different from the others?

The problem isn't that you have qualified black people not being hired, it's that you don't have a lot of qualified black people. Education, especially over two years, seems to be looked down on in the black community. You have a mix of the kids concentrating on athletic/entertainment jobs, and the adults telling them that they will never amount to anything (which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy).

Affirmative action and other programs levels the playing field. But once they do get in.. they have to do the job successfully and get good grades as well, because that's the only way you will graduate. Bottom line is affirmative action gets you through the door, without it.. schools become more "white".

Affirmative action has been shown to create a false color blindness. Once it's been taken out of the way, the numbers return to where they were. Worse, it doesn't help the situation that the only way blacks got where they did was because of their skin color, not because of their qualifications.

In short: Affirmative Action doesn't help as much as you would hope it does, and actually is a liability...

If you take away these things.. employers/admissions people will start discriminating against blacks, and etc. Since the law somewhat agrees with them... once these programs are taking away.

I don't understand your logic here; even without affirmative action, there are plenty of legal protections against discrimination, some of them written directly into The Constitution itself. Even then, there is the PR issue to consider if you start discriminating against specific groups...

Let me ask this question.. how many blacks are in management roles at your job?

That's what happens when you look at statistics without putting them into context. You combine the lack of education, lack of trust in authority, and counting on the government to make things right, and it's hardly a surprise that blacks only make up 9% of management (as opposed to 12% of the population), and that number shrinks as you get higher in the ranks (also not a surprise, as most of the higher positions are held by people that have held those positions for decades).

Change those attitudes, and wait a decade or so, and I think that you'll see a lot of changes in the higher ranks...

RG

 

[MidnightPrism]

Dem. candidates are really harping on this decision at the PBS forum tonight

 

[JayHawk]

Well i am tired so i will sleep tonight but for now let me side with SCOTUS. I dont have the time right now but I will come back and post, if I can find them, there are several studies that essentially prove that desegregation does two things. make school transportation expensive and cause the students to segregate themselves in other schools instead of the one up the street.

Ever been to a school with a high ethnic mix? The hispanic, black and white students divide themselves almost entirely along ethnic lines.

I would agree with all the dissent over the scotus decision IF there we seperate schools being set up that specified white black or what for the attendance, thats bullshit but unless you do a ethnic version of boy girl boy girl then you aint getting true one after the other mixture simply with big yellow busses.

The US Navy has to be one of the most ethnically diverse organizations on this planet. All races all levels all count. Yet on large decks the races run with there own race. Are there a whole bunch who can mix and mingle across any boundary including ethnic? Of course, but over flow path goes seperate.

I will end with the statement that has been oft used and is much maligned:

My two cents.

 

[NickCole]

We are talking merits of getting into schools and I talked of SAT's ets.
Then you bring in Bush,,seeems to me you were impling he is a dummy.

Not to smart but his SAT was higher then Kerry was.

Kerry got in the same way: someone opened a door for him.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that; I'm saying what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If Bush and Kerry get a door opened for them because of the families they happened to be born into, what's wrong with blacks getting a door opened with affirmative action?

 

[NickCole]

Nick, do you know the situation? Maybe Meredith just moved to the city... maybe her son just turned five and was ready to enter Kindergarten. It also said their school district is a year round school. Perhaps she and her family were in another district, a regular 9 months school year district and took the summer to move to the new city, or took a long vacation.

To avoid throwing out another potential scenario, my point is we don't know why this woman was seven weeks late in registering her son for classes, so it's not appropriate to judge her responsibility or preparedness.

It's a parent's responsibility to gather the information necessary and file the appropriate paperwork to register their children for school. BEFORE school starts. People who fail to meet their responsibilities always have excuses but responsible people don't pretend that an excuse shifts responsibility to someone else.

When the mother's failure to register her son on time (two months AFTER school started!), for whatever reason, resulted in her son being assigned to a school she didn't want him to attend, she sued the school board for something that would not have been a problem if she'd fulfilled her responsibility.

When we fail to fulfill our responsibility, it falls to us to adapt to the situation. I have no sympathy for people who fail in their responsibility and then expect others to adjust for their convenience -- although I do recognize that, increasingly, that's the way this generation that Meredith is part of expects the world to operate for them.

 

[HenryReardon]

Should the Federal Government even have a role in the education of the kids ?

In a word, no.

 

[Andreus]

if the federal government didnt have education regulations mississippi alabama and louisiana would be an even bigger nightmare than they already are. they are struggling to keep up as it is and barely doing so.

truancy issues would run rampant in urban areas and some parents would simply stop caring if their kids had an education

illiteracy would plague our nation and our economy would falter... education is key to an economy

i really dont know where you get some of this crap sometimes, but you really ought to think things out a little more

 

[HenryReardon]

if the federal government didnt have education regulations mississippi alabama and louisiana would be an even bigger nightmare than they already are. they are struggling to keep up as it is and barely doing so.

truancy issues would run rampant in urban areas and some parents would simply stop caring if their kids had an education

illiteracy would plague our nation and our economy would falter... education is key to an economy

i really dont know where you get some of this crap sometimes, but you really ought to think things out a little more

According to The Communist Manifesto, Communism has ten essential planks:


Abolition of Private Property.
Heavy Progressive Income Tax.
Abolition of Rights of Inheritance.
Confiscation of Property Rights.
Central Bank.
Government Ownership of Communication and Transportation.
Government Ownership of Factories and Agriculture.
Government Control of Labor.
Corporate Farms and Regional Planning.
Government Control of Education.


GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF EDUCATION - where your children can be indoctrinated all day long, every day. Wonderful.

 

[Andreus]

just because the government requires that all children are educated doesnt mean that all children are educated by the state

actually as a repuglican you should know that since you people believe in skool voochas en stuff like dat

it seems ti me that the system has dropped the ball when it came you YOUR education as you are making mistakes about issues that high school kids generally dont.

 

[HenryReardon]

^ Homeskooling. That's the answer.

Funny you should disparage home schooling.

Perhaps you haven't taken note of how many home schooled children are winning spelling, geography, and other contests.

 

[naked gent]

Should the Federal Government even have a role in the education of the kids ?

In a word, no.

I don't see any need for a federal role in education.

It does remind me of one of the Nixon-Kennedy debates I saw on C-Span before the 04 election. They were talking about federal aid to local education and Nixon was against it because following federal money would be federal control and education is best left in the hands of the locals.

Kennedy agreed with this but allowed that he would only favor federal aid for school construction so that all local dollars could go directly to education.

Oh my how far we have come.

 

[RandomAccess]

If I were really paranoid, I might say something like "This pathetic decision was only the start, my friends. There are going to be challenges to virtually every major decision reached by the SC in which the neocons feel they have lost-out. Brown v. Board is just the tippy-top of the iceberg. . . Roe v. Wade. . . Lawrence v. Texas. . . Griggs v. Duke Power Co. If it sounds in any way liberal, it's in danger.


"You'll see more cases decided like: Bowers v. Hardwick. . . Scheidler v. N.O.W. . . Maybe even all the way back to Plessy v. Ferguson.

"All the good done by the SCOTUS in the past 100+ years is in danger of dismantlement. And all the bad is due to be magnified ten-fold. Bush & his right-wing-wacko friends are laughing up their sleeves right now."

But, you know, I'm not really all THAT paranoid. . . (am I?)

 

[NickCole]

So what you're saying is that you reject any reasoning she might have had for the delay without even hearing it?

Neither of us know why this woman moved herself and her child. What we do know is that she tried to get her son into a local school at some point, this is a school that is active 12 months of the year, not your standard 9 months school.

I can see too many circumstances in which she did everything properly only to have this happen. At the same time, it could be she's just a complete fuck up who didn't think to enroll her child until November. We simply don't know. It seems rather harsh and unjustified to say she's irresonspible when you've no idea of the truth of that statement, and can't unless you have sources other than the ones linked here in this post.

She tried to enroll her son in school two months after school started.

Clearly she did not do "everything properly." Properly registering a child for school happens before school starts.

The consequence for registering her son late was that the class was filled and she had to take him to another public school.

Our choices, our actions have consequences. But rather than accept the consequences and adapt to them, she got herself a lawyer and had a hissy fit about race even though that really was not the initial reason her son was disallowed from attending that school. The reason he was disallowed was she was two months late registering him and by then the class was filled.