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Self-inflicted scars

Dear Mr. Damage,

First, let me impress upon you that I have no desire to see you leave us and would feel bad if I thought that a suggestion I made (in good faith and hoping it might help or give a different perspective for you to look at) turned you away from a venue that might help you. Or if not help, at least give you a safe place to express frustration.

Second, I reread my post and did not see any reference to current physical cutting. I did refer to psychic cutting and picking of scabs. My opinion there still holds.

Third, maybe we are using different dictionaries hence the failure on my part to convey my meanings in a coherent manner. My bad. please reread my post using the following definitions for my referencing terminology. Cutting=pain or an inner desire for attention or validation. Scabs= the body (or minds) proof of a healing process which can be delayed or even stopped by picking at them. Last, scars=proof of the healing process and hopefully represent a positive conclusion to some sort of damage.

Fourth, I truly hope this makes my previous post a little more valuable to you in your quest for inner peace and tranquility If I can do anything to help or just be a listening post, I do read my p/m's and can keep my mouth shut...i have the scars on my psychic tongue to prove it (small attempt at humor)

Last, stick around. If nothing else we can be fun to watch.

Most Sincerely,



Mr. Lefty

(my friends call me mike... or michael if really close)
 
notice the unpredictable response you asked for didn't even illicit a response back
 
You compare your question to 1 + 1. People gave the answers they thought best. You seemed to feel they were the wrong answers. To feel that way, though, you had to have an idea in your head that 1 + 1 = 2, otherwise 3 or 4 or 7 would seem just as plausible to you.

So, it is not a surprise to me that people would find themselves annoyed if they determined you knew the answer was 2 all along and appeared to shoot them down in their attempts, wrong as they may have been, to help answer your question.

The other possibility, which I gather from your last post where you say you know the answer and yet you don't, is that you know what the answer isn't, but you still don't know what the answer is.

In that case, give yourself a break for not having figured everything out. And give the rest of us a break too, as we struggle alongside you to make sense of the universe, our problems, your problems, etc. If that makes any sense, it is probably a conversation worth continuing. If that doesn't make any sense, there is probably no harm in continuing the conversation anyway because you or one of us might accidentally say something useful.
Shoot them down? I thought I did what anyone else would have done; feigned appreciation. I don't really know what 1+1 is and never claimed to know. Are people annoyed at themselves for basing conclusions on incorrect assumptions or at me for telling them that? The answer is: there is no answer. The scars are not the priority. They serve as the next insurmountable obstacle to life that I chose to place before myself, in case I ever accomplish the impossible task of finding tangible reality; or at least the illusion of one. Only then can one find a real, concrete motivation to face the more generic issues of life.

The answer is: there is no answer.

Right?

Lefty said:
Dear Mr. Damage,

First, let me impress upon you that I have no desire to see you leave us and would feel bad if I thought that a suggestion I made (in good faith and hoping it might help or give a different perspective for you to look at) turned you away from a venue that might help you. Or if not help, at least give you a safe place to express frustration.
You would feel bad? You're trying to play on my so-called sense of empathy, aren't you? Well, maybe I should express my so-called frustration too.
Second, I reread my post and did not see any reference to current physical cutting. I did refer to psychic cutting and picking of scabs. My opinion there still holds.
c. and this is lefty talking now for the summary...fucking a man you have all the answers. just too DAMN bad you have all the wrong questions.you like cutting? then cut your head out of your ass. slice off this negative superiority growth you are fostering and finally pinch that load of shit (self pity) grab the toilet tissue (friends, professionals...whoever) clean up and join us mediocre idiot savants in playing the game of life.
I suppose not. It's just that particular word that I found to be bizarre.
Third, maybe we are using different dictionaries hence the failure on my part to convey my meanings in a coherent manner. My bad. please reread my post using the following definitions for my referencing terminology. Cutting=pain or an inner desire for attention or validation. Scabs= the body (or minds) proof of a healing process which can be delayed or even stopped by picking at them. Last, scars=proof of the healing process and hopefully represent a positive conclusion to some sort of damage.
Despite your enlightening semiotics lesson, my concern remains. No amount of redefinition can change the fact that it's a scar. I don't do well in the world of subjectivity, perception and interpretation. My apologies.
Fourth, I truly hope this makes my previous post a little more valuable to you in your quest for inner peace and tranquility If I can do anything to help or just be a listening post, I do read my p/m's and can keep my mouth shut...i have the scars on my psychic tongue to prove it (small attempt at humor)

Last, stick around. If nothing else we can be fun to watch.

Most Sincerely,



Mr. Lefty

(my friends call me mike... or michael if really close)
Mr. Lefty, at this point, I can't possibly be more "at peace" or "tranquil."

spencer said:
notice the unpredictable response you asked for didn't even illicit a response back
This will have been the second time you've neglected to read what I wrote. Take a look. I did in fact respond to you. To reiterate, you, like most people made the false assumption that I'm still cutting and have trouble stopping myself. Despite what I wrote several times already, you ran with that assumption and gave me irrelevant advice, just like the others.

Perhaps you're the one who needs to carve this into your arm as a reminder. Quite honestly, I have no more room on mine. (Now, this remark coming from me wouldn't be considered a low-blow, would it?)
 
you're right I read it wrong. Ironically, I'm currently wearing a silicone pad over a scar to reduce it.
 
Shoot them down? I thought I did what anyone else would have done; feigned appreciation. I don't really know what 1+1 is and never claimed to know. Are people annoyed at themselves for basing conclusions on incorrect assumptions or at me for telling them that? The answer is: there is no answer. The scars are not the priority. They serve as the next insurmountable obstacle to life that I chose to place before myself, in case I ever accomplish the impossible task of finding tangible reality; or at least the illusion of one. Only then can one find a real, concrete motivation to face the more generic issues of life.

The answer is: there is no answer.

Right?

LOL your feigning skills need some work. :)

As far as discerning something like tangible reality, are you speaking metaphorically or do you actually have difficulty navigating the difference between your immediate experience and things like memories, intrusive imaginings, or welcome daydreams?

I have tried to cultivate the skill of putting life's generic issues on hold from time to time, without needing to do anything dramatic to drive myself from those issues. They should teach apathy in schools; it is an incredible tool to have at various points in one's life.
 
Mr. Damage or Mr. Troll or Mr. under the influence of drugs up to and including alcohol,

Careful perusal of your history of posts at jub has led me to believe you don't want answers, you want word play and to further exercise your verbosity.
you have an intense affection for the I word and a propensity to view any suggestions for help or just advice with disdain, troll? drunk? wacko? or seriously ill young man? Not being formally trained to make evaluations of that nature will cause me to refrain from further conjecture.

My post still holds water as far as I am concerned (especially the summary) and yes i used the term like as you gave every indication that you did. As to your sense of empathy, no, I was not appealing to that. I stated I would feel bad if something I wrote threw you off course. Terribly sorry if that confused you. I guess my desire was to create a sybiontic relationship not a semiotic path of mis-communication.

At this point my reiteration of an offer to listen if you need an ear still stands. This does not include the shoveling of verbal excrement.

By the way, the quote from Shakespeares is egregious not outrageous fortune. Good Luck.

Cordially

Mr. Lefty
 
LOL your feigning skills need some work. :)
I shouldn't have told you I was feigning. That's all.
As far as discerning something like tangible reality, are you speaking metaphorically or do you actually have difficulty navigating the difference between your immediate experience and things like memories, intrusive imaginings, or welcome daydreams?

I have tried to cultivate the skill of putting life's generic issues on hold from time to time, without needing to do anything dramatic to drive myself from those issues. They should teach apathy in schools; it is an incredible tool to have at various points in one's life.
The reality of human constructs: Purpose, motivation, relationships, emotions, ambition, etc. None of these exists without our deliberate decision to make them exist. Then you need to convince yourself that they're real, despite the fact that you created them out of nothing.
Lefty said:
Mr. Damage or Mr. Troll or Mr. under the influence of drugs up to and including alcohol,
I'm wondering why you're choosing to mock me. Is it because you're not used to discussing this topic? You have the choice to leave. And as I've said, I'll leave if I'm really disturbing you so much.
Careful perusal of your history of posts at jub has led me to believe you don't want answers, you want word play and to further exercise your verbosity.
you have an intense affection for the I word and a propensity to view any suggestions for help or just advice with disdain, troll? drunk? wacko? or seriously ill young man? Not being formally trained to make evaluations of that nature will cause me to refrain from further conjecture.

My post still holds water as far as I am concerned (especially the summary) and yes i used the term like as you gave every indication that you did. As to your sense of empathy, no, I was not appealing to that. I stated I would feel bad if something I wrote threw you off course. Terribly sorry if that confused you. I guess my desire was to create a sybiontic relationship not a semiotic path of mis-communication.

At this point my reiteration of an offer to listen if you need an ear still stands. This does not include the shoveling of verbal excrement.

By the way, the quote from Shakespeares is egregious not outrageous fortune. Good Luck.

Cordially

Mr. Lefty
You consider this verbose? I have trapped my mind in a very specific view of the world. From this place, life cannot happen. It's amazing how you can ignore what I find myself wasting my life thinking about, and continue to live life in ignorant bliss. So when I realize that certain ideas, thoughts, and advice can't pull me from this mindset, what am I supposed to do? Pretend I'm healed so you'll get a sense of accomplishment, while in reality, I've made no progress at all and could have saved some time by not posting at all?

This is where "talking to someone" is going to get me, right? Be it strangers, acquaintances or professionals. They'll give up as soon as they run out of ideas, get angry at me for inadvertently making them feel worthless, dismiss my words as verbal excrement, then suggest that I "talk to someone."

As I said earlier, this thread was a drunken mistake.

Searching "slings and arrows of egregious fortune" on Google only yields one result-your post from another thread.
 
This is where "talking to someone" is going to get me, right? Be it strangers, acquaintances or professionals. They'll give up as soon as they run out of ideas, get angry at me for inadvertently making them feel worthless, dismiss my words as verbal excrement, then suggest that I "talk to someone."

^^ Is that the point you've been trying to make all along?
 
^Was I wrong to say so? People (pretend) to care about another person's life even more than he/she does. But the value of that life never surpasses the value of one's own life. Other people's lives are worthless compared to your own and how much we invest in other people's lives reflects this bias. All life has equal value or all life has no value. Subjectivity translated to objectivity.

I digress. I'll be going to the walk-in clinic Friday morning. Perhaps the good doctor will have a magic scar potion. I frankly wouldn't know where to start looking for more specialized care and I'm pretty certain their wait periods are long enough to drive people to suicide.

This weekend, I'll email the school to start the tedious appeal process to salvage whatever grades I can from when I abandoned school. Then I'll transfer to a different university where I can finally finish my degree and apply to professional school as originally planned.

I don't know if I should contact my family again. I'm not sure what the point would be. They must be worried sick having not heard from me for so long, and wondering just exactly how they wronged me. What would I tell them? "I was testing the strength of human constructs and discovered that even the supposed strongest bond between family members is fake and can be broken with no effort at all? I had the need to see if emotions were real and wanted to see if I'd feel any genuine guilt and sadness if my disappearance were to eventually lead to your deaths?" Then again, they probably wouldn't even ask.

I should force myself to learn the benefits and intricacies of friendships so that I can establish real ones; or as real as they get. I should force myself to overlook the fact that society is irrational and nonsensical, yet fully operational, and for me to live in the only known society in existence, I need to smash that puzzle piece until it fits.

Then I can move onto simpler issues like coming out, career goals, hobbies, ambitions, and a social life. I just realized. Though not my original intention, my family wouldn't dare react badly if I were to tell them, for fear that I would break off contact with them forever. People here would probably be more familiar with idea that parents (should) love their kids unconditionally regardless of their "lifestyle choices." Intriguing. I seemed to have equated unconditional love with fear, haven't I?

It's interesting that I should write all this. It's not like these thoughts haven't been stagnating in my mind for quite a while. I've been reasoning with myself, telling myself that this path requires the obfuscation of reality, something that I'm not capable of. I'm writing this down because I still seem to have an obligation to other people. Chances seem to be better that I follow through if other people are expecting this of me. I wouldn't take this initiative if my only obligation was to myself. So why am I writing this down? Because I "want" to choose this path, even though I'm pretty sure it's a dead end?

I'm not sure how to interpret my obligations. People live under the expectations of others. Individualism is a fictitious concept. Two polar opposites that usually become indiscernible.

Whatever. I'm tired. Rant over.
 
You're thinking WAY too much. Life isn't easy, but you're making it WAY harder than it has to be.

You obviously are very smart, but you appear to feel lost because you don't know what is real and what isn't in life.

Regardless of what really is "true" or false, I'm sure you must have family and friends who love you very much and probably are worried about you. You should go to them and at least talk to them-- they might be able to help you in some way. If not them, then maybe try a doctor.

You hint that you know exactly what you need to do and that part of you wants to do just that, but there's still some doubt left in there.

Is there anything you believe in? There has to be something.

My spiel, in short: stop overthinking absolutely every aspect of your life and reality. It's making you suicidal and you deserve to live and be happy. Even if you don't believe in the power of therapy, try it just one more time. But go there with an open mind and be willing to change. Find out what you're really so afraid of, and what you truly believe in. Then go from there. I'm not gonna condemn you if my advice doesn't help, but that's all I'm trying to do. I hope someday things get better for you and that you become a happier person. Good luck.
 
I don't think you are thinking too much. Go with what works; if emotions seem futile or unhelpful or at least inaccessible, then thought is a good place to begin.

However a little discipline is in order, when it comes to thought. It would probably serve you well to think about some of the conclusions you have drawn about things and go through the mental exercise of trying to find counterexamples, or speculating what things might be like if your experience had drawn you to other conclusions.

You sound almost nihilist in your take on things, but a blank canvas can be a wonderful place to make a playground of delights for you and your (current or eventual) friends.
 
It's amazing how you can ignore what I find myself wasting my life thinking about, and continue to live life in ignorant bliss.

I could say the same thing about any science (I myself do geophysics, the stuff most people don't know about how the properties of the Earth work), it's amazing, but most people are ignorant of it. Nobody can know everything (not that you were asserting that I hope).

Anyways, here's the most appropriate response for this thread:

YOU BE TROLLIN' BRO!
 
^Was I wrong to say so? People (pretend) to care about another person's life even more than he/she does. Sometimes.But the value of that life never surpasses the value of one's own life.Sometimes. Other people's lives are worthless compared to your own and how much we invest in other people's lives reflects this bias. All life has equal value or all life has no value. Subjectivity translated to objectivity. You want a cookie? I'll give you mine. Just ask for it. But don't tell me I'm doing it out of some fucked up need to feel superior for offering to give it to you in the first place.. It's chocolate chip and I prefer oatmeal raisin. A.K.A when you gonna learn that what may be true for you is only true for you. THat each of our realities are our truths and no amount of you playing poor lil pissy baby is gonna change that. BTW, quit acting like you don't know what I'm talking about.

I digress. I'll be going to the walk-in clinic Friday morning. Perhaps the good doctor will have a magic scar potion. I frankly wouldn't know where to start looking for more specialized care and I'm pretty certain their wait periods are long enough to drive people to suicide.Why cover up the past? Are you ashamed of it? And if so, why? I would think they could be quite fetching if you get a tan. Tigers are hot.

This weekend, I'll email the school to start the tedious appeal process to salvage whatever grades I can from when I abandoned school. Then I'll transfer to a different university where I can finally finish my degree and apply to professional school as originally planned. Hopefully as a psych major. All you need is to learn the correct terms and to write a doctorate, hell you can base it off your own life.

I don't know if I should contact my family again. I'm not sure what the point would be. They must be worried sick having not heard from me for so long, and wondering just exactly how they wronged me. What would I tell them? "I was testing the strength of human constructs and discovered that even the supposed strongest bond between family members is fake and can be broken with no effort at all? I had the need to see if emotions were real and wanted to see if I'd feel any genuine guilt and sadness if my disappearance were to eventually lead to your deaths?" Then again, they probably wouldn't even ask. Yup and at the end of the day what does that matter except for what ever you want it to matter. We been there and done that, yeah?

I should force myself to learn the benefits and intricacies of friendships so that I can establish real ones; or as real as they get. I should force myself to overlook the fact that society is irrational and nonsensical, yet fully operational, and for me to live in the only known society in existence, I need to smash that puzzle piece until it fits.Operational? hardly, we all gonna die in hell fire by cyborgs created to cater to our fat asses... or didnt' you get that memo.

Then I can move onto simpler issues like coming out, career goals, hobbies, ambitions, and a social life. I just realized. Though not my original intention, my family wouldn't dare react badly if I were to tell them, for fear that I would break off contact with them forever. People here would probably be more familiar with idea that parents (should) love their kids unconditionally regardless of their "lifestyle choices." Intriguing. I seemed to have equated unconditional love with fear, haven't I?

It's interesting that I should write all this. It's not like these thoughts haven't been stagnating in my mind for quite a while. I've been reasoning with myself, telling myself that this path requires the obfuscation of reality, something that I'm not capable of. I'm writing this down because I still seem to have an obligation to other people. Chances seem to be better that I follow through if other people are expecting this of me. I wouldn't take this initiative if my only obligation was to myself. So why am I writing this down? Because I "want" to choose this path, even though I'm pretty sure it's a dead end? Then you have the choice of not doing it. NO one but yourself is in control. Or do you not believe that now?

I'm not sure how to interpret my obligations.Then that is where I would start my explorations in to the next steps I would take. Just saying... People live under the expectations of others.Some times... Individualism is a fictitious concept. Disagree, but if you want to buy some of mine it's for sale.Two polar opposites that usually become indiscernible.Wait, whut? But they did sound pretty together when I said them in my mind.

Whatever. I'm tired. Rant over.

Oh what a joyous day it will be when the chicky baby that is Brain damage realizes that regardless of what has been or what will be, he alone is responsible for actions. And therefore the resultant consequences. And the real life decisions he makes will color and flavor his life in a way that only he will be able to see and taste. Swim, float, or sink. Either way, space and time will continue to flow.
 
Well. The trip to the walk-in clinic finally happened. Short. Cold. Systematic. Expected. He gave me a referral and suggested that I go to emergency services at the psychiatric hospital because I was apparently suicidal. Expected. Why is this world so predictable and boring?

The only thing of note is that it took so long for me to do this. This tends to suggest that I don't feel any obligation to you. Is this good or bad?

I won't voice my thoughts so openly anymore. They clearly make people angry and uncomfortable and I have no intention of doing that. They are, after all, a result of "trolling" and thus, too worthless to leave the confines of my own mind. They should be extinguished with mind-altering substances or death so they will never bother anyone again.

Anyways, I'll go to the hospital tomorrow or Thursday. When that fails to yield anything...
 
Well, the trip to the emergency room was quite an interesting one. To those of you thinking about going, set aside a few hours. I went in at around 18:00 last Thursday and didn't get out until midnight.

I hope I'm not breaking confidentiality by writing this. If I am, please feel free to delete this.

The first thing I noticed when I arrived at the reception desk were the police officers and two disheveled-looking men. One of them was pacing back and forth very nervously. Probably drug addicts. Looking into the emergency area, I saw a girl sitting on the floor, in the hallway, knees to her chest, head down and arms wrapped around her knees and head. I couldn't tell if she was crying or not.

The police waited until that man was taken into the emergency area before leaving. The door to that area was always locked and could only be opened by staff. Before he was allowed to enter, he was checked for anything that could be used as a weapon.

The other man, the one who was pacing back and forth, was assessed, then allowed to leave. I registered, then I was also assessed by a nurse. She checked if I had any weapons on me then led me into the emergency area, into the waiting room. The other man was in there, reading. There was another group of people there. I think they were family members, but it wasn't clear why they were there.

The television was blaring news about Haiti above me. There was a poster of frequently asked questions behind me, and pamphlets about all sorts of street drugs to my left; some of them I've never heard about.

The television was on because it was supposed to calm people. The doors were locked because some people were in real danger of harming themselves. Understandable. They would provide toiletries and washrooms if you needed to stay over. If you needed to smoke, ask a staff member and someone will accompany you.

After a while, someone brought over what looked to be a bag of clothes to the people sitting in a group and they were allow to leave. Probably someone who had to stay the night.

At one point, the man went into one of the interview rooms and fell asleep on the cushioned benches inside. He was asked to wait in the waiting room. Likely a homeless person. From what I've seen, they're always quite audacious and will sleep just about anywhere if they need to.

It was a long wait. Good thing I brought a book. Good thing there were those pamphlets. I made a paper crane, a paper flower, a paper parrot, and a paper tower out of one.

I was taken into that same room and further assessed by that nurse. Standard questions. Do you hear voices? Do you think someone is controlling your mind? And the like.

The psychiatrist and the good-looking medical student took me to another room. This room was also locked and needed to be unlocked by key every time you enter and exit. There was a red button by where the psychiatrist was sitting. Emergency button. There was a phone. There was a one-way mirror behind me but she assured me it was covered on the other side and that they no longer use it. The table was visibly damaged. The walls were visibly damaged. A lot of interesting people must have sat in that chair before me.

The psychiatrist let the medical student start by asking the standard questions. Do you work? How old are you? Why did you come here tonight? The poor guy was overwhelmed so quickly and talked less and less as time went on. Blame it on a lack of experience, I guess. Or too much philosophy, too little medicine.

Are you suicidal? When you're asked this question, they're looking to see how suicidal you are. Have you set a date? Have you decided on a method? Do you know how many pills would be lethal? Do you know how tall the building needs to be for the fall to be fatal? Have you done your research and figured out at which station the trains travel the fastest and where the sharpest turn into the station is, so the conductor has the least chance of seeing you jump in front in time? I told them something close to the truth. Not suicidal. Can't experience genuine emotions thus bored with life. Tired of thinking thus looking for certain ways to solve that, one of them being death.

Well, I didn't go in with any real expectations. I didn't leave with much either. A referral to one of their short-term clinics. A girl was screaming as I left and security was there to control the situation. "This place is a fucking prison!" I asked myself what she was going through. Abuse? Drugs? Rape? Mental disease? A bad break-up? Regardless. Why are we as people so weak? Problems are only problems when you let them affect you.
 
Personal preference & forewarning: This is a long post, just over 3 pages in Microsoft Word. I prefer for it to be read all the way through instead of jumping around as some concepts build on previous ones. Again, just a preference.

Here's my bit... You asked the best way to cover scars in the summer without wearing long sleeves right? I have yet to see that one answered so I'll take a shot at it.

Personally, most of my scars aren't on my arms to start with, but even so I preferred to wear t-shirts with long sleeves sewn inside of them (they look awesome I might add). Some are thermal, but I wore (and still wear sometimes) the ones that aren't thermal in the summer. If you really detest long sleeves, stage makeup does the trick almost every time unless you doing some heavy water activity.

Most of my scars are on my ribcage or the sides of my upper legs, so usually just wearing clothes at all helped me, but when I went swimming or had to take my shirt off or something I used stage makeup that's close to my own skin tone. If you get really close up, you could see them faintly, but mine have only ever been noticed twice since I've had them and used makeup (had them about 3 yrs, give or take).

As for the suicide and stuff like that, I'm gonna be perfectly honest with you and I imagine I'll get some not nice words thrown back at me for it too: it's bullshit. Not the act of committing itself, but what you're giving off. People are trying to give you advice but you totally blow it off on the basis that "you no longer feel emotion." Trying not to feel emotion is in itself an emotion: apathy. I'm not saying you don't have good reason, and I'm not saying you're not doing a good job of doing it, but it's rather pointless in the grand scheme of things.

Humans were created to feel, be it basic joy, anger or mistrust, to the complicated ones like submission, ecstasy, rage, or loathing (yes, that was from the wheel to any who recognized it). Personally, I don't believe that feeling any negative emotions can drive someone to death regardless of the quantity felt, I believe there is always a choice. Oh, that "weakness for life" thing in the first post? I don't buy it, most likely cause I don't do evolution, so I think everyone is strong enough to handle what comes at you, even if you can't take it all right away.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder? Certainly, I would almost say that it's a universal truth. To me for the longest time, my scars were marks of what I was too weak to do. They disgusted me because they were constantly reminding me of how I just didn't have the balls to finish myself off. My boyfriend has given me quite a new and different perspective on them that I thought wasn't possible to have; he thinks they're beautiful on me.

Of course at first I thought he was just lying, trying to bed me or something of that nature, but he has proven me wrong and I couldn't be happier. Granted, I'm still not exactly thrilled with them, but when I see them I no longer see disgust or weakness, I see strength. It's not the strength of when they were sliced into me, but it's how I came out after the wound had closed and I realized what the fuck I was doing to myself and what would have eventually happened if I went too far one day.

Based on what I've read in past posts, I would venture to say that you're thinking or have thought that I'm trying to imprint my experiences onto you. Well, that would be a true statement. You haven't been through what I have, you haven't seen what I've seen, and you haven't been hurt like I've been hurt. However, the reverse is very true as well. I don't know your logic, nor do I understand it, nor do I know how it came to be. What I, and any of the people that have offered advice on any post of the JUB forum, wish to do is give you another perspective to look at the situation from. In psychology there's something called "eclectic theoretical orientation" where you take bits and pieces of the different psych theories and piece them together dependant on the situation. I believe this is a principle that defines the act of "giving advice." No one person's situation will ever be exactly like another's, but given a similar past situation and the outcome, one can hopefully determine the best plan of action to pursue dependant on what worked with who and how it was handled.

Yes, we're all trying to mirror our thoughts, opinions, and past experiences onto you, but we assume that you have the ability to discern which parts apply to you and which ones don't.

As for the "answer to 2+2 when I asked for 1+1," I can see where you're coming from. As far as I can tell, you are correct in your assumption that most of the people that posted replies overlooked the fact that you said your scars were "2 years old" in the first post, instead assuming that "once a cutter always a cutter and he must still be doing it." Obviously, you don't anymore and I believe you've made that clear in almost every post since your first. On that same note of "1+1" I myself might be going totally off base with all of this, and if I do, please feel free to use constructive criticism when you scrutinize this posting (that is not said as an insult, but as a logical conclusion based on what I have seen so far). Oh, by the way, I'm also of the opinion that you take things too seriously, thus requiring a practical application to every idea structure presented in a post... this post will not flow as well as I intended if you try to use critical thinking to analyze the whole thing, so try not to do it... also, not an insult, just an observation.

I, like Lefty, do not believe that scars are self-inflicted in a way that most people would think about them. A scar is a biological response to the closure of an open wound, nothing more, nothing less. Yes, the wound was self-inflicted, therefore the result would be classified as "self-inflicted", but it is not a conscious choice to close the wound so it is not truly "self-inflicted." However, like anything in life, the stigma attached to the process is usually a negative one, resulting in "emotional scars." I believe that is what Lefty was referring to: the mental distress and baggage that has been attached to the physical manifestations of your pain and suffering. (Lefty: if I am incorrect in my logic, please inform me as I do not like to be incorrect (as if anyone really does)).

Sidenote: You stated "The answer is: there is no answer." That within itself is an answer, therefore, it has an answer. It's like saying you have no opinion of something. By saying you have "no opinion," you therefore have an opinion.

Also sidenote: The phrase is indeed "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune." Third line of a soliloquy in Hamlet.

Back to Business. In Microsoft Word this is already 2 pages and I tire of writing, so I doubt most of these will be very long. If you've read this far without skipping anything, I'll send you a cookie.

The whole thing about caring for another more than you care for yourself: I believe there is truth in that. There are many people whom I love dearly and I would die for so they could live in this life longer. My mother, my best friend, my boyfriend... these are people I would die for because I can see that they have a higher purpose in this lifetime than me, and I believe that. I am a teacher and I believe that I always have been, and I see death as just another way to help others learn. Obviously, death would not be beneficial to me, but I see it's value in various circumstances and how it can shape a person to be better than they previously were.

You can't force puzzle pieces to fit where they don't go, that's just a bit of common sense really. While yes, you can place it there, it will always be incorrect and you will always know that. Isolation is not fun and I would imagine that coming out of an isolated state would be even worse. However, it something that is done on your terms, and not anyone else's as no one can force you to do something you don't want to do. There is always a choice involved... tell the man with the gun to "go to hell" and die or don't and be set free. Tell your significant other you have been cheating on them and they leave forever, or don't mention it and never get caught. Stand up for a person that is physically weaker and get beaten up yourself and save the smaller or walk by and pretend nothing will happen. Regardless of the situation, there is always a choice regardless of the ramifications. Granted, the consequences of any given action might not suit your personal tastes, but that doesn't make the option disappear.

Locking yourself within the confines of your mind can be relieving for a time, but can also be dangerous if the door is sealed for too long. I believe that we are all connected to each other and are meant to be that way, but that's just personal opinion.

We as people are only as weak as we see ourselves compared to other entities. When looking at a mouse, we are superior in many ways; mentally, physically, emotionally, and psychologically we outrank them. Compared to an animal such as a elephant, we are beaten in physical size, but not mental ability. Some scientists say that dolphins may be smarter than us, that would mean they beat us both mentally and physically because of their ability to swim well and hold their breath for long periods of time. We can still walk on land and our language is more developed. The qualitative measurement of weakness is only as good as what it's being compared to.

I feel as if I am beginning to lose coherence, so I'm going to stop before I get any further. Keep in mind that I'm 18, so all of this might not make total sense to everyone, but I don't expect it too. Back to that eclectic orientation thing mentioned earlier, take what applies and use it if you wish. If it all applies then great, glad I did what I could. If none of it works for you, then maybe it wasn't meant for you after all but for someone else reading this post. I promise that my intentions were to dissect responses from and respond to the original poster, however that is much easier said than done. I don't have a degree in psychology, just a high school diploma. I don't know everything, nor do I claim to, (although that would be cool if I did) so please don't take this as a perfect response. Also, not all points in this post are meant to be taken in a literal sense (ex. analogies and such) so please don't try to take them that way (don't make the puzzle piece fit where it doesn't belong). As I neared the end of this post, many of my ideas began to run together and my coherency began to suffer as well. It is not an excuse, merely an explanation to why some of the final points may not make total sense. I tried my best to find the major points within this discussion that I thought were pertinent to the OP and his questions, however if I have failed at doing so please inform me so I can make the necessary changes. I have read and corrected as I have typed and done a spell check... I have no desire to go back through and re-read it all to try to make grammer or structure changes. If you don't like it, suck it up.

~Christopher
..|
 
Mr. Phillyurban8

I don't expect to gain much from here. Were you asking indirectly why I'm not spending this time on a philosophy forum instead? The simple answer is that I have no interest in philosophy. The full answer... I'm supposed to share at least one thing in common with you and the members here. Funny enough, it seems almost real and tangible, possibly because it's "biologically rooted" as you would most likely argue. How insignificant and irrelevant this commonality is at this point, though.

May I ask how you came to the conclusion that I had OCD? I'm not too familiar with this disease. Were you basing your diagnosis on your medical expertise? If so, isn't it sort of unethical to do so in this manner and on an internet forum no less? If not, then you were just venting your frustration at me, right? Or were you under the impression that insulting me would provoke me to pull my socks up and work to become a better person, fueled by a hardy "I'll show you good!" attitude? Surely one of these doctors would have picked it up by now. The therapist today asked me if I had the desire to change. I asked her what good desire is without the ability. If you don't know how to build a roller coaster, it wouldn't matter how much you wanted to ride one. Even if you could build it, what would the point be if you lacked the ability to enjoy it?

Lastly, may I ask what your reasons to live are and why you believe in them so? Or at the very least, what the most "common" reasons to live are.

Mr. supernovachap, you'll have to excuse me as I'm too tired to sift through your post and formulate a response at this time.
 
Well, the trip to the emergency room was quite an interesting one. To those of you thinking about going, set aside a few hours. I went in at around 18:00 last Thursday and didn't get out until midnight.

I hope I'm not breaking confidentiality by writing this. If I am, please feel free to delete this.

The first thing I noticed when I arrived at the reception desk were the police officers and two disheveled-looking men. One of them was pacing back and forth very nervously. Probably drug addicts. Looking into the emergency area, I saw a girl sitting on the floor, in the hallway, knees to her chest, head down and arms wrapped around her knees and head. I couldn't tell if she was crying or not.

The police waited until that man was taken into the emergency area before leaving. The door to that area was always locked and could only be opened by staff. Before he was allowed to enter, he was checked for anything that could be used as a weapon.

The other man, the one who was pacing back and forth, was assessed, then allowed to leave. I registered, then I was also assessed by a nurse. She checked if I had any weapons on me then led me into the emergency area, into the waiting room. The other man was in there, reading. There was another group of people there. I think they were family members, but it wasn't clear why they were there.

The television was blaring news about Haiti above me. There was a poster of frequently asked questions behind me, and pamphlets about all sorts of street drugs to my left; some of them I've never heard about.

The television was on because it was supposed to calm people. The doors were locked because some people were in real danger of harming themselves. Understandable. They would provide toiletries and washrooms if you needed to stay over. If you needed to smoke, ask a staff member and someone will accompany you.

After a while, someone brought over what looked to be a bag of clothes to the people sitting in a group and they were allow to leave. Probably someone who had to stay the night.

At one point, the man went into one of the interview rooms and fell asleep on the cushioned benches inside. He was asked to wait in the waiting room. Likely a homeless person. From what I've seen, they're always quite audacious and will sleep just about anywhere if they need to.

It was a long wait. Good thing I brought a book. Good thing there were those pamphlets. I made a paper crane, a paper flower, a paper parrot, and a paper tower out of one.

I was taken into that same room and further assessed by that nurse. Standard questions. Do you hear voices? Do you think someone is controlling your mind? And the like.

The psychiatrist and the good-looking medical student So he was pretty hot huh? took me to another room. This room was also locked and needed to be unlocked by key every time you enter and exit. There was a red button by where the psychiatrist was sitting. Emergency button. There was a phone. There was a one-way mirror behind me but she assured me it was covered on the other side and that they no longer use it. The table was visibly damaged. The walls were visibly damaged. A lot of interesting people must have sat in that chair before me.

The psychiatrist let the medical student start by asking the standard questions. Do you work? How old are you? Why did you come here tonight? The poor guy was overwhelmed so quickly and talked less and less as time went on. Blame it on a lack of experience, I guess. Or too much philosophy, too little medicine.

Are you suicidal? When you're asked this question, they're looking to see how suicidal you are. Have you set a date? Have you decided on a method? Do you know how many pills would be lethal? Do you know how tall the building needs to be for the fall to be fatal? Have you done your research and figured out at which station the trains travel the fastest and where the sharpest turn into the station is, so the conductor has the least chance of seeing you jump in front in time? I told them something close to the truth. Not suicidal. Can't experience genuine emotions thus bored with life. Tired of thinking thus looking for certain ways to solve that, one of them being death.

Well, I didn't go in with any real expectations. I didn't leave with much either. A referral to one of their short-term clinics. A girl was screaming as I left and security was there to control the situation. "This place is a fucking prison!" I asked myself what she was going through. Abuse? Drugs? Rape? Mental disease? A bad break-up? Regardless. Why are we as people so weak? Problems are only problems when you let them affect you.

If the referral is attached to a psychiatrist and you are prescribed medication that will alter your brains chemical manufacturing and in turn adjust your mood... are you gonna take em? And, how hot was the student? The first time I've seen you mention what could be misconstrued as an attraction. But know I'm wondering if your'll "counter" by saying he was what can be considered attractive by media standards that you just happen to be familiar with from hangin out obeservin' junk.
 
Brain Damage, I was not asking why you decided not to post in a philosophy forum. I asked what you specifically had hoped to gain from this one and you don't strike me as someone who would waste his time simply "sharing."
I think the standard answer is: "Oh woe is me! I've kept all this inside me for so long that I feel as if I'm going to explode if I don't vent." In reality, the answer is closer to: "Everything's a waste of time."
I stumbled upon interesting details of OCD by accident when I suggested to a germ phobic member that he might have it. I had not realized that some people who have OCD are characterized by cutting and skin picking, which is some of what you described about yourself. No, I'm not a healthcare worker nor was I frustrated or venting, but you may want to look into the malady further. It could be illuminating.
Okay.
I have a feeling your problem is not that you lack the ability to enjoy the rollercoaster, but rather you can't imagine that you would.
You may be right. But tomato/tomato, right? Oh wait...this thing doesn't work in writing, only when spoken.
What is my reason to live? My reason is that the alternate -- death -- is unfathomable.
Neat. I was expecting having to dig through all that "family, friends, interests, etc." nonsense before reaching this.
fetaby said:
If the referral is attached to a psychiatrist and you are prescribed medication that will alter your brains chemical manufacturing and in turn adjust your mood... are you gonna take em? And, how hot was the student? The first time I've seen you mention what could be misconstrued as an attraction. But know I'm wondering if your'll "counter" by saying he was what can be considered attractive by media standards that you just happen to be familiar with from hangin out obeservin' junk.
So, you're not dead. Hmm. Good for you.

No. The purpose of going to the walk-in clinic in the first place was to inquire about the physical scars. It just so happened that I was, as expected, sent down a completely different path. Besides, medication makes me sweat while I sleep. I'd have to change my sheets every other day. Let's all be a bit more environmentally conscious, shall we?

I honestly can't remember how good-looking he was. All I can remember is that he was given the tedious task of reading from a list of standard questions; something that one of those signing gorillas could be trained to do. It's not surprising that you would single that part out of the entire post. An anomaly among anomalies. So if we were to assume that this was what you perceive to be a genuine attraction, then what?

supernovachap said:
As for the suicide and stuff like that, I'm gonna be perfectly honest with you and I imagine I'll get some not nice words thrown back at me for it too: it's bullshit. Not the act of committing itself, but what you're giving off. People are trying to give you advice but you totally blow it off on the basis that "you no longer feel emotion." Trying not to feel emotion is in itself an emotion: apathy. I'm not saying you don't have good reason, and I'm not saying you're not doing a good job of doing it, but it's rather pointless in the grand scheme of things.

Humans were created to feel, be it basic joy, anger or mistrust, to the complicated ones like submission, ecstasy, rage, or loathing (yes, that was from the wheel to any who recognized it). Personally, I don't believe that feeling any negative emotions can drive someone to death regardless of the quantity felt, I believe there is always a choice. Oh, that "weakness for life" thing in the first post? I don't buy it, most likely cause I don't do evolution, so I think everyone is strong enough to handle what comes at you, even if you can't take it all right away.
You drew this conclusion how? Good for you for going on faith; it allows you to live. I just don't understand why people don't question themselves. "Humans were created not to feel."
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder? Certainly, I would almost say that it's a universal truth. To me for the longest time, my scars were marks of what I was too weak to do. They disgusted me because they were constantly reminding me of how I just didn't have the balls to finish myself off. My boyfriend has given me quite a new and different perspective on them that I thought wasn't possible to have; he thinks they're beautiful on me.

Of course at first I thought he was just lying, trying to bed me or something of that nature, but he has proven me wrong and I couldn't be happier. Granted, I'm still not exactly thrilled with them, but when I see them I no longer see disgust or weakness, I see strength. It's not the strength of when they were sliced into me, but it's how I came out after the wound had closed and I realized what the fuck I was doing to myself and what would have eventually happened if I went too far one day.
Objectively, scars are just scars. Nothing else. "(Self-inflicted) scars are a sign of weakness" is the perception of the majority of people. They convinced you of such and you didn't like it, thus decided to perceive them in your own way. In other words, why did you choose to let yourself be convinced of such and give yourself these "emotional scars?" You can turn something meaningless into something meaningful and believe in it. If it makes you happy, then so be it. In the end, scars are just scars. Nothing else.
Based on what I've read in past posts, I would venture to say that you're thinking or have thought that I'm trying to imprint my experiences onto you. Well, that would be a true statement. You haven't been through what I have, you haven't seen what I've seen, and you haven't been hurt like I've been hurt. However, the reverse is very true as well. I don't know your logic, nor do I understand it, nor do I know how it came to be. What I, and any of the people that have offered advice on any post of the JUB forum, wish to do is give you another perspective to look at the situation from. In psychology there's something called "eclectic theoretical orientation" where you take bits and pieces of the different psych theories and piece them together dependant on the situation. I believe this is a principle that defines the act of "giving advice." No one person's situation will ever be exactly like another's, but given a similar past situation and the outcome, one can hopefully determine the best plan of action to pursue dependant on what worked with who and how it was handled.

Yes, we're all trying to mirror our thoughts, opinions, and past experiences onto you, but we assume that you have the ability to discern which parts apply to you and which ones don't.
Experiences are of no interest. Every single experience exists. If you can imagine it, it probably exists. And yet the number of people on this Earth, past, present, and future, is finite and experiences are thus also finite. A seemingly infinite range of experiences, bound by the walls of this world. Boring.
The whole thing about caring for another more than you care for yourself: I believe there is truth in that. There are many people whom I love dearly and I would die for so they could live in this life longer. My mother, my best friend, my boyfriend... these are people I would die for because I can see that they have a higher purpose in this lifetime than me, and I believe that. I am a teacher and I believe that I always have been, and I see death as just another way to help others learn. Obviously, death would not be beneficial to me, but I see it's value in various circumstances and how it can shape a person to be better than they previously were.
How noble it all sounds on paper. Would you really though? Personally, I think we've all been watching too much TV. What if I told you that I would take a bullet for you, or for anyone. But it's certainly not because I care in the least bit about you. It's because I value my life less than everyone else's. We would have something in common, right? We place other people before ourselves. But they should be giving me the Nobel Prize for "caring" about more people than you, right?
You can't force puzzle pieces to fit where they don't go, that's just a bit of common sense really. While yes, you can place it there, it will always be incorrect and you will always know that. Isolation is not fun and I would imagine that coming out of an isolated state would be even worse. However, it something that is done on your terms, and not anyone else's as no one can force you to do something you don't want to do. There is always a choice involved... tell the man with the gun to "go to hell" and die or don't and be set free. Tell your significant other you have been cheating on them and they leave forever, or don't mention it and never get caught. Stand up for a person that is physically weaker and get beaten up yourself and save the smaller or walk by and pretend nothing will happen. Regardless of the situation, there is always a choice regardless of the ramifications. Granted, the consequences of any given action might not suit your personal tastes, but that doesn't make the option disappear.

Locking yourself within the confines of your mind can be relieving for a time, but can also be dangerous if the door is sealed for too long. I believe that we are all connected to each other and are meant to be that way, but that's just personal opinion.
Is there a "right" or "wrong" choice when it comes to forming connections and living versus suicide and death? I don't think "right" and "wrong" are the words you'd use, but something about the former choice will seem more "right" than the other one in your mind.

Keep the cookie please. Give it to someone else and make his/her day.
BADgreek said:
BrainDamage, please keep sharing. I look forward to hearing more from you.
Why? You've lived through similar experiences? I get the feeling that there's more to it than that...
 
So, you're not dead. Hmm. Good for you.

No. The purpose of going to the walk-in clinic in the first place was to inquire about the physical scars. It just so happened that I was, as expected, sent down a completely different path. Besides, medication makes me sweat while I sleep. I'd have to change my sheets every other day. Let's all be a bit more environmentally conscious, shall we?

I honestly can't remember how good-looking he was. All I can remember is that he was given the tedious task of reading from a list of standard questions; something that one of those signing gorillas could be trained to do. It's not surprising that you would single that part out of the entire post. An anomaly among anomalies. So if we were to assume that this was what you perceive to be a genuine attraction, then what?

Why would I go off and die for? And miss all the contradictions? Nah, they are too funny. :p

And I must admit that at the mention of anyone being "attractive" I immediately pose the follow up, "How Attractive"? Just being the visually stimulated gay man that I am. And no that's not surprising in the least is it?

And for your last question? It seems that is this is as we assume to be a genuine attraction, then your dick still works. A.K.A. you have at times a libidinous nature. Now why that is important or what that "means" is anyone's guess.

To be honest, that lil blurb on your part shocked me. As it was the first time in months of reading your posts that I perceived you as enjoying anything. But as I am typing this I'm thinking you will deny enjoying anything in an effort to not be like everyone else. Hmmm, indeed.
 
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