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Senate GOP pledges to block all bills

Some people will protect their entitlement mentality to the bitter end. Presidents don't cut taxes, congress does. Reagan had a saying, (I'm paraphrasing) "if you want more of something, subsidize it, if you want less of something, tax it". As people mature, with clear heads not clouded by years of alcohol and drug abuse, they will understand this saying. Additionally, the english have a saying, "too clever by half". That applies to some on here. You think you can do this or that and it will absolutely happen, history and unintended consequences are just dismissed. Human nature is dismissed. History is rewritten, statistics manipulated, polls skewed, all to trick people into allowing poiliticians to tax and spend with abandon. Go ahead and continue to pay higher taxes if you want to, I will at least try to speak out against it. By all means, volunteer to pay more at tax time if you want, that's easy enough to do, and if there's ever another government tax rebate stimulous check sent to you, then to be consistent you MUST send it back. And spare me the amateur psychology, you do not know me, and you never will. :D:D:D:D:cool::cool::cool::cool:
 
Some people will protect their entitlement mentality to the bitter end. Presidents don't cut taxes, congress does. Reagan had a saying, (I'm paraphrasing) "if you want more of something, subsidize it, if you want less of something, tax it". As people mature, with clear heads not clouded by years of alcohol and drug abuse, they will understand this saying. Additionally, the english have a saying, "too clever by half". That applies to some on here. You think you can do this or that and it will absolutely happen, history and unintended consequences are just dismissed. Human nature is dismissed. History is rewritten, statistics manipulated, polls skewed, all to trick people into allowing poiliticians to tax and spend with abandon. Go ahead and continue to pay higher taxes if you want to, I will at least try to speak out against it. By all means, volunteer to pay more at tax time if you want, that's easy enough to do, and if there's ever another government tax rebate stimulous check sent to you, then to be consistent you MUST send it back. And spare me the amateur psychology, you do not know me, and you never will. :D:D:D:D:cool::cool::cool::cool:

Some people will protect their class warfare elitist mentality to the bitter end. Presidents don't cut taxes, congress does. Reagan had a saying, (I'm paraphrasing) " i HAVE NO RECOLECTION OF THAT MEETING". As people mature, with clear heads clouded by altheimers, they will understand this saying. Additionally, the english have a saying, "too clever by half". That applies to some on here. You think you can do this or that and it will absolutely happen, history and unintended consequences are just dismissed. Human nature is dismissed. History is rewritten, statistics manipulated, polls skewed, all to trick people into allowing poiliticians to feed their rich constituencies with abandon. Go ahead and continue to steal money if you want to, I will at least try to stop people like you . By all means, volunteer to pander to the rich, that's easy enough to do, and if there's ever another government tax rebate stimulous check sent to you, then to be consistent you MUST send it to them. And spare me the amateur psychology, you do not know me, and you never will. :D:D:D:D:cool::cool::cool::cool:
 
Lowering taxes doesn't pay the bills, and all the lying you do to yourself won't change that fact.

Johann "lets tax everybody but me" Bessler.

Taxing everybody but yourself doesn't pay the bills, and all the lying you do to yourself won't change that fact.
 
Johann "lets tax everybody but me" Bessler.

Taxing everybody but yourself doesn't pay the bills, and all the lying you do to yourself won't change that fact.

To quote the Orange one:

That's just chicken crap.;)
 
And if anyone knows what chicken crap is, it's Boehner.:wave:

the guys that ran on lowering taxes are now pledged to vote against lowering taxes... and its still a month before the worms take over the house.

Boner is going to be the new bush... he's going to be such a monumental fuck up that he will hand the show back to pelosi in two years.

It just boggles the mind that they think writing it down in a pledge makes things any different.

They have been doing this shit for two years. Now that is cowardice... chicken crap at its finest.
 
My other half just told me about the chicken crap incident.

Boehner, et. al. got profoundly embarrassed, because they voted "no" on a bill that would given tax breaks to everybody below $250k per year.

Just goes to show you who they really represent. (WhiteTrash America: they don't care about you!)

My other half says Boehner was so angry at being outmaneuvered, that his face was visibly red.

McConell fucked him with that no vote pledge... its priceless.

I think the man lives in a drunken stupor
 
the truth is

allowing people to keep their earned $$$

Except that the current structure works to funnel more money to those who already have a lot. That's anti-liberty.

in past serious situations the rich gladly gave over 90 percent of their income in taxes.

The money had to come from someswhere, and I am convinced the end result needs to be that all of these cuts need to end.

Ending ALL the cuts would hurt the economy. Unless you're ready to massively fund food banks, emergency shelters, and free clinics, that would be a bad move.

And I don't see the rich stepping up to do it.

I am actually a hard core conservative when it comes to economics.

I think you need to remember what being conservative really means. What it DOESN'T mean is giving wealthy people money when we have a ballooning debt and deficit.

last I checked fiscal conservatism meant paying your bills.

Yes. What the Republicans are proposing is like a dad coming home and telling the wife and kids he's decided spending cuts would pay the bills, so he's going to ask the boss for a pay cut.
 
the guys that ran on lowering taxes are now pledged to vote against lowering taxes... and its still a month before the worms take over the house.

No. They ran on lowering taxes for EVERYONE. The bill they voted no on did not do that. If you're going to make an argument against them, at least make a valid one.
 
No. They ran on lowering taxes for EVERYONE. The bill they voted no on did not do that. If you're going to make an argument against them, at least make a valid one.

he just voted against lowering taxes for 98 percent of all americans... you want to quibble?

go ahead

it just gets sillier and sillier
 
Well, considering that part of the reason that they won is to address the issues they want the senate to focus on, I think you'd have a hard time convincing people that its obstructionist.

:rotflmao:

The Republicans who won didn't get elected because the people wanted them to address certain issues, they won because they weren't Democrats. If we had a system that allowed a viable third party, I doubt the Republicans would have gained any seats at all in the Senate, and few in the House; incumbents of both parties would have been toppled in favor of a real alternative.

A large reason was that Democrats were disgusted and stayed home. There wasn't actually any shift toward Republicans, there was just a disgust with Democrats.

Unfortunately, once voters get disgusted with Republicans, which I wouldn't be surprised happens in two years, there will be no option but to vote back in the other set of trash.

Tax cuts don't result in budget deficits, overspending does. Tax cuts, given the chance to work, result in more money to the treasury. Today's news media chatter actually confirms this, since they're all bellyaching about unemployment checks ending soon, and all the businesses that will suffer. Does money in the hands of the people spur the economy, or not?

In a limited set of circumstances, tax cuts benefit the economy. One of the limitations is that they only work for the lower end of the taxpayers -- tax cuts for the upper end accomplish nothing at all (the flip side is that taxes on the upper end can be raised to a third of their income before negative effects on the economy are seen).

So if you're interested in helping the economy, do it this way (since it isn't cutting rates so much as leaving more money in the pockets of people at the bottom): leave the tax rates as they are, and raise the individual exemption to $25,000.
And at the same time, raise the tax rate on the top 2% to 33.33%.

When you've got a giant deficit, you do NOT want to reduce revenue -- which cutting taxes will do. Your media chatter shows that the common wisdom is that money in the hands of consumers spurs economic activity; it isn't addressing the rich in the least -- so in order to get money to consumers... see above.

GIVING wealthy people money?? This is the problem, it's not giving them money, it's letting everyone who works KEEP more of what they EARN, and Uncle Sam learning to cut back.

First, the debt. The rich have benefited immensely from its expansion, and having a greater share of the wealth gives them greater responsibility -- time for them to pay the piper.

that has never worked.

It is a lie.

A tax cut takes revenue out of the coffers of the gov't and you can't ballance the budget without raising taxes.

We are at a 60 year low right now and we cannot afford it. Do you want to personaly give up your social security?

how about we get rid of the military?

just where are we going to get the cash to pay the bills?

cutting spending can't ballance the budget. It just cant. BOTH have to happen.

Cutting taxes does NOT raise revenue or reduce the deficit.

Actually cutting taxes does increase revenue -- under limited circumstances. Dealing with a stuffed head right now, the figures are escaping me, but I know one thing, and that's that we aren't in a place where cutting taxes on the wealthy is going to benefit us in the least.
At this point, cutting at the bottom probably won't increase revenue, but it would help keep things from getting worse. But I find no evidence anywhere that raising rates on the top will hurt anything.
Except that our tax structure allows all sorts of dodges to make income untaxable.
 
False limitation.

A deficit results when you spend more than you take in. There are two ways to get to that situation, spending too much, or cutting the amount that you take in.


False generalization.

Only when you have an appropriately sized and targeted tax cut that results in economic growth. If you cut taxes to zero you are obviously going to take in less money. So there is a range of cuts where you will clearly take in less money, and a range where you might possibly obtain more in the long run if the economy grows. Even if you make such a correct cut though, there is no guarantee economic growth is going to happen.

QFT. ..|
 
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell120110.php3

Interesting article from an economics professor.

He makes a good point about how investors move their money around to avoid paying taxes. Similarly, I expect lots of people cash-in on investments (e.g. recognize capital gains) during periods immediately prior to an increase in tax rates. If rates were constant, investment capital might be more-so as well.

Yes it was, yes he did, and the solution is to do something I've long advocated: just declare all the money you take in to be income, no differences or discrimination.

It wouldn't solve the "cashing in", but if rates were made constant, that wouldn't be a concern.

He said last sunday that it was just another step at reducing all nuclear weapons down to zero which he opposed.

Yeah, like we're even close. ](*,)

There is really ONE solution with 2 steps: 1. Implement a National Sales Tax and eliminating all income tax and 2. Balanced Budget Amendment

How long have you hated the poor? That would be the main result of your first time; the second would be an increase in crime due to poverty and black markets.

the panel to balance the budget has suggested a radical move to get rid of ALL, and brother I mean all, tax deductions, and then lower all tax rates across the board. Its an interesting move and the only reason I can see for it is to stop people from engaging in the shell games the uber wealthy engage in to not pay taxes.

wall street journal... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...568643889337142.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTopStories



I am hearing they are going farther than anyone expected... everything is on the chopping block. it's interesting that this would undo much of Obama's tax breaks for students etc... I assume this is a carrot for the republicans.

The move projects a huge windfall for the government in taxes from corporations and the wealthy. IT WONT HAPPEN...LOL.

Capital gains should be taxed much higher as well, IMO.

All tax deductions? That would slam all sorts of people. I'd get rid of half the deductions, and set a limitation: no tax return can take more than seven (five seemed too small, ten too generous).

People on the bottom of the scale would still be able to take all the deductions they were before; people higher up would have to pick and choose.

Then have the IRS count the deductions taken. each year, we knock the least used off the list of allowable deductions, until the number of deductions is down to, oh, two dozen.
Another approach would be to take (there's a way to do this with math, that I can't remember) the deduction where least used meets highest cost to the Treasury. :twisted:
 
Call their bluff.

They've filibustered everything in the past 4 years...... EVERYTHING!

This is nothing new. They're professional obstructionists and they're threatening to "start" filibustering things now....... c'mon.

HA!

It's an empty threat with this silly letter threatening filibustering. Republicans aren't in power and they can't dictate terms. They're drama queens.

Except they didn't really filibuster -- only procedurally.

If they want to play that game, Reid should use his authority to bar all of the procedural games, and make them stand there and talk. A simple majority could set a rule that they have to keep it up twenty-four hours a day.

Throw that on TV, and see what the public thinks of the Republicans again.

that sector will never recover because that was a correction of a bloated market, so until america learns to MAKE things again and sell things, we are doomed. There will be no new jobs until america learns to make its own products and get off the teat of chinese labor.

There's a place they could do some interesting things with taxes: manufacturers who create new jobs in the US that represent at least 5% of their work force can use the ordinary deduction; others can't. And at the same time, manufacturers who create jobs here and all of their jobs other than sales are in the country just wouldn't pay taxes.

Gee whiz! That's not what the facts show.


http://www.american.com/archive/2007/november-december-magazine-contents/guess-who-really-pays-the-taxes

Something's slanted there, since a prominent billionaire has pointed out that he pays a smaller tax rate than many of his salaried employees.
 
these are the people that tend to not spend more money when they make more, because frankly, the needs of someone with one billion is about the same as the needs of someone with about 40 billion.

Precisely -- and that's one of the reasons the Laffer curve is limited to certain conditions. Reduction in the tax rate on the wealthy is beneficial ONLY when tax rates are punitively high, like above 70% or something. When the tax rate is already low relative to their benefit from the economy, it accomplishes absolutely nothing except to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

The article, no matter who it was written by, uses the IRS as his source. Here is the chart of who pays what in income taxes from the IRS. This is reality.

The problem here is that you're doing graphing and BP is doing integration -- you're looking at numbers on a two-dimensional grid, and he's doing three (or more). You've got a box, and he's showing what the cylinder is that the box describes.

The percentage of income gain is completely irrelevant. Whether or not the tax system is equitable (and I would argue it isn't because the bottom 40% pay nothing at all) is not the issue. The percentage of income taxes paid by each income group is the matter at hand. The rich pay most of the income tax in this country, that's a fact.

That 40% pay nothing at all is wonderful!

The goal should be to increase that to 41%, then 42%, and so on.
 
The righties have blinded themselves to the fact that Boehner and them voted against tax cuts for the lowest 98% of Americans. Willful blindness.

JB3, you can't dig yourself out of this one.

BECAUSE the vote was an attempt by democrats to pressure the republicans since negotiations are still ongoing as far as what the final bill will look like.

As I said above, they support tax cuts, but will not support (at least not yet publicly) a bill that does not include tax cuts for all.
 
How could you say that?!?Those are obscene profits!!! Whaaaaaaaa!!!

That aside, I wish I had the inside info so I could invest and sell at the right time........

I just wish people here would show that they really are generous, for example by donating to this:

http://www.shortbeachtrail.org/

Paying a high percentage of your income as taxes isn't generosity at all, it's generically supporting all sorts of things, from advanced weapons research to fat-ass bureaucrats who spend much of their time thinking up paperwork to do and file to justify their far-above-the-median salaries, from keeping a family farmer in Kansas from losing his farm (which our government doesn't do well any more, because it's sold out to giant corporations) to paying for drones that assassinate people without trial. Generosity is supporting something that government isn't doing, from the money the government lets you keep.

In my book, if you're not being generous, you're not a heck of a lot higher up than the people in Congress who are owned by the giant corporations, or those so cowardly they hide behind procedural rules instead of manning up and actually locking up the Senate by getting and keeping the floor.

And for you Republicans here -- yes, I just called John McCain a coward. For the record, I'm being excessively polite.
 
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