Shame on Israel!!!

[AnalblasT]

View Post I think your military is the world's most barbaric for all the civilians and wedding parties the trigger happy flunkies like to bomb..

Maybe you should go back to your country -- wherever that is.

 

[Kulindahr]

Well, we have come far from the Middle Ages, and especially after the Holocaust, WWII, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, etc., we do require countries that have hundreds of imperialistic military bases abroad, who routinely support tyranny abroad for their own strategic interests and yet go to war to supposedly give people "freedom", etc, etc, to behave responsibly, and avoid civilian causalities, especially since warfare is asymmetric, and usually between hegemonic forces and resistance.

So you do have a double standard: some people are allowed to be terrorists, and that's okay with you, but other people aren't even allowed to defend themselves.

Nice of you to show your true colors.

 

[SoulSearcher]

Maybe you should go back to your country -- wherever that is.

If you were Native Indian, I would probably pay some mind to such hickish idiocracy! I'm not going anywhere! And I've heard this phrase so many times, but mostly from extreme right crypto-white supremacists and Republicans. No old white granddaddy can tell me that!

 

[SoulSearcher]

So you're just part of the "Hate America" crowd. Most Americans appreciate the fact that we have such a dedicated and professional military. Men and women who volunteer to wear the uniform of the United States for very little pay and at great risk to themselves.

Very little pay huh...well a huge chunk of these volunteers are flunkies who otherwise would have nothing else to do. Besides, the military deliberately targets the poor and minorities to join the forces. Otherwise you would have seen Jenna Bush and her sister serving instead of getting arrested for underage drinking in some bar.

We just celebrated Memorial Day. A day when we reflect on the sacrifices made by those people so that ignorant people, such as you appear to be, can make asinine statements about them freely.

As far as I'm concerned, my freedoms are protected by ACLU, and many many teachers and attorneys who work hard everyday to maintain the freedoms and liberties that powerful interests within the country are trying to erode. All the flunkies protect abroad are US corporate interests, not mine.

There has never been a military that has been so powerful and has used its power so sparingly in the history of the world. Because of our military, millions of people throughout the world are free of oppressive dictators.

If that's what you believe, then your granddad ass is smoking something illegal!!! Since we are talking about the Middle East, why don't you go research your military's history in the ME. Contrary to the pile of fecal matter you just laid above about freedom, it is precisely because of American military assurances to protect virtually all the brutal dictators in the ME that millions of people don't have freedom there. Besides, in countries like Iran and Chile, where the people were able to get free elections, it was YOUR government that had overthrown those governments to install dictators. So yeah, your idiocracy will work with the dumbfucks that make up half of your country that believe in these myths, but I'm very familiar with the history of the US and its military. The only people your military ensures freedom for is your corporations and oil companies, and by opening new markets.

http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html

I like the fact that they kill terrorists. Maybe you have a problem with that. Just as a suggestion. If you don't want your wedding to be bombed, don't invite terrorists as guests.

Labeling ordinary people who are merely fighting off foreign invaders by calling them "terrorist" is a very effective tactic as the simpletons that make up a majority of Americans hardly question anything when they hear words like that. Same thing when the state apparatus tries to blur the line between the Taleban and ordinary Pushtoons who just don't want and have never wanted foreign invaders in their land. For many around the world, US soldiers and military is the world's biggest terrorist organisation, by the state department's own definition.

 

[SoulSearcher]

So you do have a double standard: some people are allowed to be terrorists, and that's okay with you, but other people aren't even allowed to defend themselves.

Nice of you to show your true colors.

Since you people seem to be trained from an early age to put too much faith in your corporate media driven legitimation of whatever the government wants to have you believe and accept, I reiterate that no government and hegemonic forces will determine for me what I would consider a terrorist group, as too often, as in the not so far away days of colonialism, "terrorism" is a label that besides being used to designate actual terrorist elements, are also used to label elements that are merely resisting foreign hegemony and occupation and invasion and colonisation of their homelands. The French used to brand Algerians to be terrorists, the South African Blacks were "terrorists", the Mao Mao in Kenya were "terrorists", and the list goes on and on. And considering that all of this is very state centric, no conversation about "terrorism" is complete without discussing state terrorism. Fact is, there is no internationally legally binding definition of terrorism. Maybe something more academic about the arbitrariness of the use of the word would help:

http://trac.syr.edu/tracreports/terrorism/215/

So no, I don't have double standards, I merely am pointing out that the definitions themselves are bias, and used arbitrarily against groups that the hegemon finds inconvenient to its greater agenda.

 

[nafhoosier]

I take my original post back!

As details emerged regarding the incident the "peaceful protesters" were revealed to be none other than a bunch of savages whose hatred for Israel is so strong they are willing to kill soldiers who simply board a boat armed with, oh my god, fucking paint-ball guns.

Bringing machetes, swords, and poles with them?! Are they serious? What a bunch of fucking psychos!

 

[Just_Believe18]

This video should summarize why this thread is a farce. I've been pretty critical of Israel lately with their construction plan and refusal to disclose their Nuclear arsenal, but this was a total setup to discredit them.

 

[Kulindahr]

This video should summarize why this thread is a farce. I've been pretty critical of Israel lately with their construction plan and refusal to disclose their Nuclear arsenal, but this was a total setup to discredit them.

Wow.

The restraint of the IDF people in face of such barbarism is astounding. I would have had my sidearm out and been shooting anyone carrying anything resembling a weapon after the first of my comrades was hit.

If anyone doubts who the civilized side was there, that video settles it.

 

[SoulSearcher]

Wow.

The restraint of the IDF people in face of such barbarism is astounding. I would have had my sidearm out and been shooting anyone carrying anything resembling a weapon after the first of my comrades was hit.

If anyone doubts who the civilized side was there, that video settles it.

Barbarism, civilised, etc., buzz words buzz words. Look up the word Hasbara. Native Indians were "uncivilised" too, right? And what did the "civilised" do? And where is the Holy Spirit when I need her to speak through you?

 

[Kulindahr]

Barbarism, civilised, etc., buzz words buzz words. Look up the word Hasbara. Native Indians were "uncivilised" too, right? And what did the "civilised" do? And where is the Holy Spirit when I need her to speak through you?

Hasbara: in this context, it means you're trying to change the subject in order to avoid the fact that the people you've been defending are thugs.

Some Native Americans counted as uncivilized, I suppose. What the civilized did who came was settle among them and treat them with respect.

You wouldn't listen if the Holy Spirit did speak through me.

 

[Kulindahr]

Imagine if nobody ever colonized North America...

Just for sake of argument, how many Native Americans do you think would give up their modern lives to return to scrapping a living off the land using Neolithic technology?

That being said, I'm still in favor of increased Native American land rights and autonomy.

If they could keep cell phones, microwaves, satellite TV, refrigerators and a few other things in their teepees/hogans/wigwams/etc., and hot tubs in the steam hut... you'd be surprised.

 

[bankside]

And while we're off topic, how many of you think that aboriginals in north america would still be living in "neolithic" societies instead of learning and adapting and making technological advances like every other society?

Just for the sake of argument, how many Americans do you think would give up their modern lives to return to scraping a living off the land using Pilgrim technology?

There were civilized and uncivilized people on the boats, and in the ports at either end of the colonial journey, and apparently there still are.

On topic:
The bottom line is, boats on a peace mission in international waters don't owe the IDF any duty of respect; indeed they are entitled to repel them as they would any attempted hijackers. How did the IDF think they would be received, with tea and cookies? Set-up my arse.

 

[bankside]

But the Palestinian Authority did not consent to the blockade! How does Israel gain "entitlement" over that coastline?

(one hesitates to point out something so obvious, but this key point is somehow lost in a sense of awe at Israel's "entitlement.")

It goes without saying that the Palestinians are "entitled" to skirt the blockade or it wouldn't be a blockade.

So when the international community weighs in to a dispute between two parties, we find that
a) opinions vary from country to country about the probity of the blockade
b) it is less about entitlements than reasons why the blockade should stand or not.

Turkey would evidently make the case that it should not stand.

 

[bankside]

Very likely. The conditions which lead to civilization elsewhere in the World did not occur in North America other than where it occurred in southern Mexico.



How does that relate in any way to what I just said?

It's colonists who brought technology to the natives, not the other way around.

lol

You know nothing of aboriginal history. And I was tempted to conclude you know nothing of analogy. But the analogy doesn't make sense to you because you actually believe the aboriginal communities would not have advanced as did the pilgrims, either on their own, or through fair terms of cultural interchange.

I wonder if you can imagine how offensive that is to someone of aboriginal ancestry to assert that their culture and technology would never have grown without colonial intervention, when that very intervention was designed to obliterate that culture.

 

[JB3]

But the Palestinian Authority did not consent to the blockade! How does Israel gain "entitlement" over that coastline?

(one hesitates to point out something so obvious, but this key point is somehow lost in a sense of awe at Israel's "entitlement.")

It goes without saying that the Palestinians are "entitled" to skirt the blockade or it wouldn't be a blockade.

So when the international community weighs in to a dispute between two parties, we find that
a) opinions vary from country to country about the probity of the blockade
b) it is less about entitlements than reasons why the blockade should stand or not.

Turkey would evidently make the case that it should not stand.

The palestinians weren't skirting the blockade. These activists were. And, as it turns out, many of these activists and the organization itself, were partially funded by terrorist organizations.

The palestinian authority didn't have to give consent because they're not in control of the stretch of coastline being blockaded. Hamas, however, was. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Even though the blockade isn't the best course of action, you could hardly argue that Israel isn't entitled to enact a blockade (with Egypt's help, mind you) to prevent weapons from being offloaded to Hamas.

 

[bankside]

The palestinians weren't skirting the blockade. These activists were. And, as it turns out, many of these activists and the organization itself, were partially funded by terrorist organizations.

The palestinian authority didn't have to give consent because they're not in control of the stretch of coastline being blockaded. Hamas, however, was. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Even though the blockade isn't the best course of action, you could hardly argue that Israel isn't entitled to enact a blockade (with Egypt's help, mind you) to prevent weapons from being offloaded to Hamas.

Do you mean Mahmoud Abbas opposed the entry of the ships carrying emergency supplies, or Aziz Duwaik did, or some other party?

And which, "as it turns out" terrorist organisations are you able to cite evidence for? Have I missed something? I have not followed this 24/7 but I don't recall anyone seizing massive caches of weapons or rocket launchers.

Perhaps the Americans can help Israel look for them; their skills were honed so well in Iraq at detecting hidden weapons that really really were there if you only look hard enough. If you say "really really" often enough it becomes really really true. I'm still not seeing how these are not humanitarian supplies.

Incidentally, I have no affection for Hamas. I agree they are a terrorist organisation. I think it would be productive to disqualify them from future elections. However I also think it would be productive to disqualify Netanyahu. And that damn wall will be on the green line, one way or another.

 

[JB3]

Do you mean Mahmoud Abbas opposed the entry of the ships carrying emergency supplies, or Aziz Duwaik did, or some other party?

And which, "as it turns out" terrorist organisations are you able to cite evidence for? Have I missed something? I have not followed this 24/7 but I don't recall anyone seizing massive caches of weapons or rocket launchers.

Perhaps the Americans can help Israel look for them; their skills were honed so well in Iraq at detecting hidden weapons that really really were there if you only look hard enough. If you say "really really" often enough it becomes really really true. I'm still not seeing how these are not humanitarian supplies.

Incidentally, I have no affection for Hamas. I agree they are a terrorist organisation. I think it would be productive to disqualify them from future elections. However I also think it would be productive to disqualify Netanyahu. And that damn wall will be on the green line, one way or another.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37477182/ns/world_news-europe/

 

[jackoroe]

Very little pay huh...well a huge chunk of these volunteers are flunkies who otherwise would have nothing else to do. Besides, the military deliberately targets the poor and minorities to join the forces. Otherwise you would have seen Jenna Bush and her sister serving instead of getting arrested for underage drinking in some bar.



As far as I'm concerned, my freedoms are protected by ACLU, and many many teachers and attorneys who work hard everyday to maintain the freedoms and liberties that powerful interests within the country are trying to erode. All the flunkies protect abroad are US corporate interests, not mine.




If that's what you believe, then your granddad ass is smoking something illegal!!! Since we are talking about the Middle East, why don't you go research your military's history in the ME. Contrary to the pile of fecal matter you just laid above about freedom, it is precisely because of American military assurances to protect virtually all the brutal dictators in the ME that millions of people don't have freedom there. Besides, in countries like Iran and Chile, where the people were able to get free elections, it was YOUR government that had overthrown those governments to install dictators. So yeah, your idiocracy will work with the dumbfucks that make up half of your country that believe in these myths, but I'm very familiar with the history of the US and its military. The only people your military ensures freedom for is your corporations and oil companies, and by opening new markets.

http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html


Labeling ordinary people who are merely fighting off foreign invaders by calling them "terrorist" is a very effective tactic as the simpletons that make up a majority of Americans hardly question anything when they hear words like that. Same thing when the state apparatus tries to blur the line between the Taleban and ordinary Pushtoons who just don't want and have never wanted foreign invaders in their land. For many around the world, US soldiers and military is the world's biggest terrorist organisation, by the state department's own definition.

So now, in addition to characterizing our military as barbaric flunkies and now terrorists, you also appear to have a problem with poor people and minorities who elect to serve. As if that weren't bad enough, you've decided that a majority of Americans are simpletons. Does this hate streak of yours have no end??

Do you really think that it's through the largesse of organizations like the ACLU that you get to spread this nonsense? Do you really think that all of your lawyer pals, armed with pocket protectors and brief cases are the proximate cause of your being able spew hatred and lies about of our military and of Israel?

It's time for you to get a clue. The right to free speech and every other freedom that you enjoy in my country has been bought and paid for by the blood of American soldiers. I welcome people who want to come and live in the freedom that we enjoy. But I don't feel the need to sit silently by and see the brave men and women of our armed services slandered by someone who is clearly on the wrong side of argument.

If you want to sympathize with terrorists, that's your right. If you want to take the side of "people" who have no qualms about hacking somebody's head off with a rusty steak knife, be my guest. If you want to root for the savages who beat, shot and stabbed members of the Israeli Navy, go right ahead. I'll stand with the majority of decent people who respect the sacrifices made by our military. I'll stand by our ally, Israel who takes no shit from the terrorists. I'll stand with the people who actually understand that freedom isn't free.

And BTW, if you've grown tired of living amongst us simpletons and want to head back to whatever slice of heaven you call home, let us know. We'd be happy to take up a collection to make that happen for you. You see, Americans are also the most generous people on earth.

 

[SoulSearcher]

Imagine if nobody ever colonized North America...

Just for sake of argument, how many Native Americans do you think would give up their modern lives to return to scrapping a living off the land using Neolithic technology?

Wow, are you trying to break some kinda record here? Not trying to patronise you, but you can do better than that. Thats like saying, I raped, but at least I gave them a sexual experience, since sex is good. It doesn't work that way. A better question is, how many Native Indians are still alive to benefit from your latest technology anyways. And it is also good to keep in mind the difference between advancement and being evolved. Let's take weapons for example, so the Indians used to use "neolithic technology" as you like to call it, and what do the "advanced" men develop, nuclear weapons, cluster weapons, drones, etc. Advanced? Certainly. Evolved? Hardly. Now we can massacre wholesale, without even having to see who got hit, who's father and sister died, yes, technology. Imagine is nobody ever colonised...imagine if the Holocaust hadn't happened, imagine if the apartheid didn't happen, imagine if Pol Pot hadn't existed. Let's not start discussing the pros and cons of rape.

 

[SoulSearcher]

It's colonists who brought technology to the natives, not the other way around.

lol

You call guns, sexually transmitted diseases, and alcohol technology?

And where did Egyptians, Iraqis (Mesopotamians), Ancient Greeks, Indians, Persians, Assyrians, get their technology? Are you sure this is JockBoy87 or someone has taken over your account? Throughout history, peoples have learned from each other, but that is hardly a reason to do some kinda cognitive dissonance to justify ethnic cleansing.