Shaved Men Rock.

[Drops of Jupiter]

I do not promise anything.

Damn... not even his own Cheese Hat? Don't tell me there is dissension within the Montreal ranks?

 

[Soilwork]

I'm not allowed in Montreal anymore after that little misunderstanding in the Cathedral with the Holy Water basin.

I had to pee. Sue me.

 

[Drops of Jupiter]

I'm not allowed in Montreal anymore after that little misunderstanding in the Cathedral with the Holy Water basin.

I had to pee. Sue me.

Oh... that was YOU!

 

[bigdaddyhorse]

I'm not allowed in Montreal anymore after that little misunderstanding in the Cathedral with the Holy Water basin.

I had to pee. Sue me.

Glad to know I'll be amongst friends in Hell. Good job!

 

[Jeimuzu]

Re: Shaved Men Rocks.

Does that include grammar? If he was speaking this aloud I'd have to wonder what it would look like to see a mouth fall down the stairs.

I give it an F. While your arguments are placed well, there is very little evidence to back it up, no hard numbers, no real facts... As far as I can see this is a self-indulgent piece of verbal diarrhea. You, sir, are an idiot to the highest degree. Take your shaved [STRIKE]roid head[/STRIKE] bodybuilder and go have fun somewhere else.

*shrugs* Grammar is irrelevant. One of the biggest homophobes I've ever encountered, he had a list of all the complaints he had about his website (massive zealot content), and he'd rarely actually address the complainer's point, he'd just criticise their spelling, and such things, and laugh it off, while the argument was still valid.

The arguments aren't placed particularly well here, I think, and there's no referencing sources. Also, it trusts completely to a TV program, who have a habit of finding some obscure statistic, thinking they could make a program out of it, and if things don't suit the program, they make up facts, and the experiments are never actually unbiased, and have no scientific merit. NEVER BELIEVE WHAT YOU SEE ON TV! Has nobody ever told you that?

Anyways, every woman I know considers hairy men ugly, and shaven men to be their ideal boys - which is why hollywood actors shave. They are not pandering to a gay crowd, sorry to break it to you.

Most of the men here, every time someone says they've shaved their pubes, there's a ton of people going "Noooooooooo grow them back!!" Back when I posted a few pics of myself, ages ago, I could personally attest to the fact.

Let's put it this way.
If that program had said, at the end, there's no correlation between shaven guys being gay, or in fact any connection between shaving and homosexuality, you'd have just considered it a waste of your time. Now, however, with controversial data at the end of it, you're interested, you feel like you're discovering more things, and you'll probably tune in again. Am I right?

It's all money. If you'll tune in again, they're happy. More viewers = More money for them.

 

[Marco Sensual]

I don t like to shaved myself because it s long.I put the gillet cream on my body once again i put the gillet cream on my body until i m all shaved.I do it two times in the week.When i shaved myself it can take at least 15 mintutes each times.I do it anyway to feel good with myself.I don t like hair at all.It s the same for my man.My man is a bodybuilder and he got his body wax each month.They put a cream on his body and they take the hair off of his body and it hurts.My man don t like hair at all.Whatever if it hurts he is ready to get his body shaved.All bodybuilders we know do the same thing and they don t like their hair also.Bodybuilders don t always take the gillet cream to shaved themselfs.They get their bodies waxed.You really have to work hard to be beautiful.

 

[GL]

I don t like to shaved myself because it s long.I put the gillet cream on my body once again i put the gillet cream on my body until i m all shaved.I do it two times in the week.When i shaved myself it can take at least 15 mintutes each times.I do it anyway to feel good with myself.I don t like hair at all.It s the same for my man.My man is a bodybuilder and he got his body wax each month.They put a cream on his body and they take the hair off of his body and it hurts.My man don t like hair at all.Whatever if it hurts he is ready to get his body shaved.All bodybuilders we know do the same thing and they don t like their hair also.Bodybuilders don t always take the gillet cream to shaved themselfs.They get their bodies waxed.You really have to work hard to be beautiful.

Well, no.

You just have to work fairly hard to be hairless.

If that's what floats your boat? More power to you.

 

[swerve]

Re: Shaved Men Rocks.

Just a few other notes on this thread. You guys who make comments about his english writing ability, since when did JUB become a collegial english exam. Comments like that drive me crazy the world is a large place with many many languages, did you understand his point? Thats what matters. Is his point less valid because it was not in perfect english? O:K you don't agree with his point is that a reason to ridicule him for doing the best with his second language? .

You know -- I agree with your above statement...

Early on in the thread I ASKED if it was his second language to give him the benefit of the doubt -- I wasn't sure he realized how strongly he was coming across...

I also couldn't discern any dialect from his writing...

I appreciate talking to Jubbers from ALL OVER the world -- and certainly don't discredit anyone based on their writing capabilities...

I didn't FIND OUT that it was his second language until later in the thread...

I apologize to both him and any others that thought I was out of line...

I'm actually a pretty nice non-judgemental guy...

As far as body hair and facts...

I could care less...

 

[Kulindahr]

You really have to work hard to be beautiful.

Well, generally... ... no.

To the degree that someone's concept of beauty includes fitness, sure -- that takes work. To the degree that someone's concept of beauty includes getting rid of hair, sure. To the degree that it requires every bit of hair to be just perfect, sure.

Personally, I see a body builder with no hair anywhere, what I see is a hollow plastic figure marketed by Mattel -- someone's toy that will be tossed away and forgotten when a new one comes along.

I don't find the least bit of beauty in action figures; I want a real natural person with real natural characteristics.

 

[Kulindahr]

Oh -- a comment on "it was on TV":

there's this thing called "The History Channel" -- ever watch much?

I have -- and a lot of what's on there is flat out wrong. I had to take a batch of history classes in college, and I remember enough to be able to call those shows on a lot of things. I randomly google things that seem outrageous, and frequently discover that they're making stuff up.

It's called sensationalism. It's like this "Lost Tomb of Jesus" nonsense: no actual scholarship, just some surface swipes in that direction, and they put together something that millions will be watch in hopes of hearing something thrilling or shocking.

Now if the History Channel will do it... ... what channel was this show on?

 

[Andreus]

To be honest mate.. i prefer my men as they come.. and to be manly.

What you think, i dont give a shit.

hehehe

you are a hoot

hey hey joey!!

i do believe you have a blonde hairy chest yourself

 

[OtterJoq]

You really have to work hard to be beautiful.

Maybe you do.

I don't.

 

[Marco Sensual]

I m the bodybuilder and i agree with my man.He was not insulting hairy men but some take it the wrong way.

You got to stop saying tv show can t be taken seriously.You can t compared this show with reality show.Everybody knows that reality show are fake.The show about body obsession was not fake at all.All they were saying was true.They don t say things like that only for entertainment.It s totally non sense.The sexologist were serious and the show also.

In the show hairy men was aware that they were in the minority.They said they don t care if most gay men are shaved .It s not a problem for them but why it s a problem for you?

In the show the sexologist were saying about between 55% and 65% of gay men shave their body.They not always shave their body head to toes but shave a lot.The part of the body gay men shave the most is chest,pube(trimmed also often),penis,balls and face.The rest can be trimmed but not very hairy.Even if a man who have hair on his arms or other places he is consider a shave man because most of his body is shaved.

The sexologist were clear.They don t say false things like you think.Before making show like that they do research and talk to other specialist and a lot of other things.It s take a lot of time.It s not false.

They were asking people in the street do you prefer hairy men or shaved men?

Woman 1 shaved men because they are more hot
Woman 2 i don t care if they are shaved or hairy but if he is hairy its more
masculine.
Woman 3 hairy men because shaved men look like barbie ken doll and they are plastic and too perfect.not my kind at all.
Woman 4 hairy men are more masculine.
Woman 5 hairy men today shaved men are looking like sisies (not masculine)
Woman 6 hairy men my man his hairy and i will never let him shave his body because hairs it s beautiful.
Woman 7 hairy men men are made to be hairy.i dont get why a lot of men wants to shave their body when most women like hairy men.It s stupid.

Gay men were in a gay bar.

Gay Man 1 shaved men because i always like shaved men since i know i m gay.
Gay Man 2 shaved men are more beautiful.i m not into hairy men at all.
Gay Man 3 hairy men are the real men not the plastic shaved ones.
Gay Man 4 shaved men because it looks more clean and hot.
Gay Man 5 shaved men theres nothing wrong with hairy men but all the men i was with were shaved.
Gay Man 6 shaved men my man is shaved.
Gay Man 7 shaved men most gay men are more into shaved men because the youth is very important for gay men.In the 70s men was hairy but since the 80s gay men starting more and more shaved themselfs,the 90s more than before and today gay men are really into shaved men.Shaved men looks younger.

All these straight women was between 21 and 49.

All these gay men was between 23 and 37.

All these people answer that question very often in the show.
Most women prefer hairy men.It s true.Even if a lot of women don t like hairy men.

Most gay men prefer shaved men.It s true.Even if a lot of gay men don t like shaved men.

I could put more of the answers but i m only a man i don t remember all they were saying.It was not fake.These people were answering to the question.

The way some talk here looks like you are trying to proof that most gay men wants to be hairy men.It s the total opposite.

Most gay men are shaved.You got to accept it.Theres nothing wrong with it.
If you persist and try too hard to proof that you are right the only thing you will proof is that you have an inferiority complex.

Theres nothing wrong being in a minority.In that case gay hairy men.
Maybe for you it s more hard to understand because you have not see the show but i you have see it you will almost for sure admit that all i said was true.

Why hairy men here don t care being in the minority and some of you make a big deal for nothing?

55% and 65% = MAJORITY

MOST GAY MEN SHAVED THEIR BODY.

The sexologist were talking about facts.
Don t try to proof the opposite because you will got it wrong once again.

It s not because here on this site that a lot of men are into hairy men that all gay men are like that.Men here don t represent all gay men.You don t know all gay men.You can not generalized.

If you go to most gay clubs you will see that in the club you are most men are shaved.Men often take their shirt off and you see the truth.
I m not into clubbing but some of my friends are and they know that in gay clubs most men are shaved.

I m almost sure that some here know that i m right but will not admit it.Stop lying to yourself.

My man and me don t insult you.We are saying the facts.THAT S IT THAT S ALL.

If you want to believe that the majority of gay men wants to be hairy it s like you want but you are wrong.

Don t insult my man he have done nothing wrong and don t insult me.

I don t take steroid like a previous poster think.A lot of bodybuilders take steroid and a lot of bodybuilders don t take steroid.I m a bodybuilder i know what i m talking about.I work hard each week for my body.Don t insult me.

I know it was long but for some here you got to do it long to be understand.

The facts are what they are.

Everybody have their taste and theres nothing wrong with it.

 

[Andreus]

oh my

 

[LeftBlank]

unless you're someone like me who has very little hair, therefore you desire someone that has something you don't. hair on men definitely isn't as photogenic, but it feels/looks way hotter in person, imo

 

[theFallenGod]

Most gay men are shaved.You got to accept it.Theres nothing wrong with it.
If you persist and try too hard to proof that you are right the only thing you will proof is that you have an inferiority complex.

Theres nothing wrong being in a minority.In that case gay hairy men.
Maybe for you it s more hard to understand because you have not see the show but i you have see it you will almost for sure admit that all i said was true.

Why hairy men here don t care being in the minority and some of you make a big deal for nothing?

55% and 65% = MAJORITY

MOST GAY MEN SHAVED THEIR BODY.

The sexologist were talking about facts.
Don t try to proof the opposite because you will got it wrong once again.

It s not because here on this site that a lot of men are into hairy men that all gay men are like that.Men here don t represent all gay men.You don t know all gay men.You can not generalized.

If you go to most gay clubs you will see that in the club you are most men are shaved.Men often take their shirt off and you see the truth.
I m not into clubbing but some of my friends are and they know that in gay clubs most men are shaved.

I m almost sure that some here know that i m right but will not admit it.Stop lying to yourself.

My man and me don t insult you.We are saying the facts.THAT S IT THAT S ALL.

If you want to believe that the majority of gay men wants to be hairy it s like you want but you are wrong.

Don t insult my man he have done nothing wrong and don t insult me.

I don t take steroid like a previous poster think.A lot of bodybuilders take steroid and a lot of bodybuilders don t take steroid.I m a bodybuilder i know what i m talking about.I work hard each week for my body.Don t insult me.

I know it was long but for some here you got to do it long to be understand.

The facts are what they are.

Everybody have their taste and theres nothing wrong with it.

You need to come to Toronto little boys... you will find your so called "facts" obtained through a faulty source to be completely and utterly INACCURATE.... as most of the gay men in Toronto have hair...

You see it in clubs, you see it on the streets... you see it in the magazines....

face facts ... getting info from a flake on t.v. isn't exactly a scientific study....

 

[Kulindahr]

You got to stop saying tv show can t be taken seriously.You can t compared this show with reality show.Everybody knows that reality show are fake.The show about body obsession was not fake at all.All they were saying was true.They don t say things like that only for entertainment.It s totally non sense.The sexologist were serious and the show also.

I don't have to stop saying this show can't be taken seriously until you say which show it was so I can check it out. I told you about the History Channel, which supposedly does history, but has a lot of shows which are nothing but entertainment.

In the show hairy men was aware that they were in the minority.They said they don t care if most gay men are shaved .It s not a problem for them but why it s a problem for you?

In the show the sexologist were saying about between 55% and 65% of gay men shave their body.They not always shave their body head to toes but shave a lot.The part of the body gay men shave the most is chest,pube(trimmed also often),penis,balls and face.The rest can be trimmed but not very hairy.Even if a man who have hair on his arms or other places he is consider a shave man because most of his body is shaved.

The sexologist were clear.They don t say false things like you think.Before making show like that they do research and talk to other specialist and a lot of other things.It s take a lot of time.It s not false.

This isn't what you were saying before -- you were making it sounds like most gay men shave off all the hair except maybe on top of their heads -- and you just admitted that's false.

Here are some facts, hot off the poll:


question: Are you shaved?

Totally -- every square inch . . . . . . . . . 1 = 1.41%
Everything but my head . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 = 4.23%
everything but head, pits, and pubes . . . 1 = 1.41%
just pits and pubes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 = 1.41%
just pubes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 = 5.63%
some favorite/special areas . . . . . . . . 10 = 14.08%
just to make the borders tidy . . . . . . . 16 = 22.54%
when I'm feeling a little crazy . . . . . . . 11 = 15.49%
Shave? Get outa here! . . . . . . . . . . . 24 = 33.80%

total votes 71


What you were saying before made it sound like the first two choices made up the majority of gay men. Obviously that's wrong, which I'm glad you're agreeing to now. But still, a third of gay men, according to this, don't shave at all (except face), and almost half don't most of the time, and if you count just trimming as not really shaving, it's over 72% of gay men!

So yes, lots of gay men shave serious parts of their bodies -- but nearly 3/4 don't.

As far as being scientific goes, your TV show, according to your account, got its information from street interviews. There's a serious problem with street interviews: the more potentially embarrassing a question is, the less likely you are to get responses from a representative sample of the population. That is because only those bold enough to speak up with strangers around give answers. I'm guessing that what the show's data are really telling us is that gay men who shave significant portions of their bodies are more likely to speak up in public -- at least in the location/area where the interviews were conducted. Limited locations don't give representative samples anyway; just think of what the results would be if the interviewer had been in Soilwork's neighborhood when a couple dozen of his biker friends were around -- the results might have us believing that more gay men shave their heads than anything else!

But look at the poll here:
The people who voted have no worry that anyone is going to hear their answer, or even know who they are, so they have no reason not to speak up, and no reason not to be honest. That gives a strong confidence level right off.
They also aren't limited to any one small geographical region; we probably have people from three, possibly four, or even five continents represented, and no less than a dozen nations. That levels the sociological/ethnic playing field substantially. The only real bias in the poll is probably related to affluence (able to afford a computer, and have leisure time to be on the internet) and education (the 'net has a much higher level of education than does the world population as a whole). There's a potential bias in favor of people who like to do polls, but I've never seen that correlated anywhere with much of anything.
So even for this small sample size, we can count on a good level of confidence in the results.
What that means is that these facts are very probably telling us what is true of all gay men.

It might possibly be biased by age, since no one under 18 is included; if there's a trend among younger gay men to shave large areas of their bodies, that really wouldn't show. But since most of the gay population is 18 and older, the likelihood of that affecting the result in an important way is small.

Which, again, means that this poll probably tells us what's true about gay men everywhere. Without doing the math, I'm going to guess that the error rate will fall around plus-or-minus twelve to fifteen percent, which could drop the figures to the range your TV shows was claiming, but could also raise them to show that almost nine out of ten gay men don't really shave much of their bodies.

Now, if my trip through the poll and understanding it seemed tedious, well, that's how these things are done. Unless you can get every gay man on the planet to answer completely truthfully, there's always the probability of error. People have spent decades hammering out the principles by which that probability can be determined; it uses some fairly serious math to get a figure like I guessed at. Then the data are looked at for possible biases -- directions in which it might be pulled because of who is or isn't in the poll, or who might or might not be.


So, tell me: did this sexologist speak in terms like these? At all? Did he admit that his sample population might not be representative of the whole, that his sampling methods had specific weaknesses, things like that? Because if he didn't, and if he was on for more than twenty minutes, I am extremely doubtful of his scientific competence.
And therefor of whether what he had to say was accurate -- not facts; the only facts are the actual answers and the count. But even there, bias can come in due to the questions asked -- don't ask the right ones, don't ask enough, and you get skewed results. Just for comparison, look at this poll:

Completely shaved - - - - - - - 4 = 9.09%
Manscaped - - - - - - - - - - 16 = 36.36%
Hairy - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 28 = 63.64 %
Just a treasure trail - - - - - - 13 = 29.55 %

Compared to the first one, it has advantages and disadvantages. One advantage is that it's simpler... and one disadvantage is that it's simpler. People are more likely, by a small degree, to actually respond to a simpler poll; but possible answers go unexplored, too -- there's a balance. A definite advantage here, which contributes indirectly to its simplicity, is that it is in terms in common use, such as "treasure trail". A disadvantage is that a person could answer more than one category, which makes the results harder to make use of in a scientific manner, though on the other can be more useful in measuring strength of opinion. There's more, but that gives a few aspects for comparison.
It shares the greatest strengths with the upper poll -- broad population base, etc., which gives it again a good confidence level (keeping in mind the possibility of multiple responses).

All that considered, look at what this one says: significant shaving appears to be
a minority option, while "hairy" is chosen as an answer more than 3 in 5 times!
Once again, I think that whatever manner this sexologist is getting information is looking suspect.

Until you can give us information on which we can judge the dependability of the sexologist's results, I'll stick with these. Taken together, these polls tell us that the majority of gay men prefer to have most of the important hair left on their bodies, but also prefer men who are the same.

 

[_AJ_]

I don't have to stop saying this show can't be taken seriously until you say which show it was so I can check it out. I told you about the History Channel, which supposedly does history, but has a lot of shows which are nothing but entertainment.



This isn't what you were saying before -- you were making it sounds like most gay men shave off all the hair except maybe on top of their heads -- and you just admitted that's false.

Here are some facts, hot off the poll:


question: Are you shaved?

Totally -- every square inch . . . . . . . . . 1 = 1.41%
Everything but my head . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 = 4.23%
everything but head, pits, and pubes . . . 1 = 1.41%
just pits and pubes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 = 1.41%
just pubes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 = 5.63%
some favorite/special areas . . . . . . . . 10 = 14.08%
just to make the borders tidy . . . . . . . 16 = 22.54%
when I'm feeling a little crazy . . . . . . . 11 = 15.49%
Shave? Get outa here! . . . . . . . . . . . 24 = 33.80%

total votes 71


What you were saying before made it sound like the first two choices made up the majority of gay men. Obviously that's wrong, which I'm glad you're agreeing to now. But still, a third of gay men, according to this, don't shave at all (except face), and almost half don't most of the time, and if you count just trimming as not really shaving, it's over 72% of gay men!

So yes, lots of gay men shave serious parts of their bodies -- but nearly 3/4 don't.

As far as being scientific goes, your TV show, according to your account, got its information from street interviews. There's a serious problem with street interviews: the more potentially embarrassing a question is, the less likely you are to get responses from a representative sample of the population. That is because only those bold enough to speak up with strangers around give answers. I'm guessing that what the show's data are really telling us is that gay men who shave significant portions of their bodies are more likely to speak up in public -- at least in the location/area where the interviews were conducted. Limited locations don't give representative samples anyway; just think of what the results would be if the interviewer had been in Soilwork's neighborhood when a couple dozen of his biker friends were around -- the results might have us believing that more gay men shave their heads than anything else!

But look at the poll here:
The people who voted have no worry that anyone is going to hear their answer, or even know who they are, so they have no reason not to speak up, and no reason not to be honest. That gives a strong confidence level right off.
They also aren't limited to any one small geographical region; we probably have people from three, possibly four, or even five continents represented, and no less than a dozen nations. That levels the sociological/ethnic playing field substantially. The only real bias in the poll is probably related to affluence (able to afford a computer, and have leisure time to be on the internet) and education (the 'net has a much higher level of education than does the world population as a whole). There's a potential bias in favor of people who like to do polls, but I've never seen that correlated anywhere with much of anything.
So even for this small sample size, we can count on a good level of confidence in the results.
What that means is that these facts are very probably telling us what is true of all gay men.

It might possibly be biased by age, since no one under 18 is included; if there's a trend among younger gay men to shave large areas of their bodies, that really wouldn't show. But since most of the gay population is 18 and older, the likelihood of that affecting the result in an important way is small.

Which, again, means that this poll probably tells us what's true about gay men everywhere. Without doing the math, I'm going to guess that the error rate will fall around plus-or-minus twelve to fifteen percent, which could drop the figures to the range your TV shows was claiming, but could also raise them to show that almost nine out of ten gay men don't really shave much of their bodies.

Now, if my trip through the poll and understanding it seemed tedious, well, that's how these things are done. Unless you can get every gay man on the planet to answer completely truthfully, there's always the probability of error. People have spent decades hammering out the principles by which that probability can be determined; it uses some fairly serious math to get a figure like I guessed at. Then the data are looked at for possible biases -- directions in which it might be pulled because of who is or isn't in the poll, or who might or might not be.


So, tell me: did this sexologist speak in terms like these? At all? Did he admit that his sample population might not be representative of the whole, that his sampling methods had specific weaknesses, things like that? Because if he didn't, and if he was on for more than twenty minutes, I am extremely doubtful of his scientific competence.
And therefor of whether what he had to say was accurate -- not facts; the only facts are the actual answers and the count. But even there, bias can come in due to the questions asked -- don't ask the right ones, don't ask enough, and you get skewed results. Just for comparison, look at this poll:

Completely shaved - - - - - - - 4 = 9.09%
Manscaped - - - - - - - - - - 16 = 36.36%
Hairy - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 28 = 63.64 %
Just a treasure trail - - - - - - 13 = 29.55 %

Compared to the first one, it has advantages and disadvantages. One advantage is that it's simpler... and one disadvantage is that it's simpler. People are more likely, by a small degree, to actually respond to a simpler poll; but possible answers go unexplored, too -- there's a balance. A definite advantage here, which contributes indirectly to its simplicity, is that it is in terms in common use, such as "treasure trail". A disadvantage is that a person could answer more than one category, which makes the results harder to make use of in a scientific manner, though on the other can be more useful in measuring strength of opinion. There's more, but that gives a few aspects for comparison.
It shares the greatest strengths with the upper poll -- broad population base, etc., which gives it again a good confidence level (keeping in mind the possibility of multiple responses).

All that considered, look at what this one says: significant shaving appears to be
a minority option, while "hairy" is chosen as an answer more than 3 in 5 times!
Once again, I think that whatever manner this sexologist is getting information is looking suspect.

Until you can give us information on which we can judge the dependability of the sexologist's results, I'll stick with these. Taken together, these polls tell us that the majority of gay men prefer to have most of the important hair left on their bodies, but also prefer men who are the same.

The thing is that these polls say are you shaved

when he generally said gay men prefer shaved which is different

a better poll would be simple yet cover generally more options

Which do you prefer?

• Shaved
• Trimmed
• Natural
• Dont Care

just my opinion

 

[Kulindahr]

softmen, I want to say you should ignore the attacks on you, but pay real attention to the attacks on your source. A bunch of guys here have posted their experiences, and those are contrary to what you say you've been told -- in fact, I'll give another one: in all the dancing I've seen at bars, when shirts come off, the only places I've seen shaved are pits (one guy only), chest (a few), treasure trail (few, and mostly to 'tame' it), and backs.
And some of us have tried to explain how to treat information when someone comes along with something more dependable. Relying on that program until you ran into something else was sensible; the guy has an education in the area and did some research, which is more than you have, so why not trust him? But here you've run into other people with information that is different -- and that's when you have to know how to decide what to do then. You heard what you were told were "facts", but we don't really know what the facts were that you were told -- all you've passed on are results, except the list of some people's responses. I just made the massive post above this to try to give a picture of how data is looked at.
Here's another bit: depending on how I categorize the responses in the upper poll, I could say "More gay men shave", or "More gay men are hairy" -- and both would be correct, because they're founded on different definitions. That was part of the problem in the start of this thread; it sounded like you were saying that the majority of gay men shaved all the hair off their bodies -- but it was a problem not of being "wrong", rather of not defining "shaved".
And that leads to this: almost any time you hear "a majority of gay men do X", you are not hearing a fact. The only way that statement can be a fact is if X is so obvious that everyone understands it, for example, "A majority of gay men blow their noses." That doesn't define whether they blow them on kleenex, handkerchiefs, towels, shop rags, their sleeves, or off into the air, but there's no doubt about what it means -- so it can be a fact. But try "The majority of gay men use drugs." Can that be a fact? Only if everyone understands what the writer means by "drugs", and since there's no definition, we don't -- so it isn't a fact. To make it a possible fact, you'd have to say something like "The majority of gay men use illegal mind-altering substances", or "The majority of gay men take prescription medicines" -- or get both in there. Those could be facts, because the meaning is plain. But "The majority of gay men shave" can't be a fact -- "shave" has more than one common meaning, and within those meanings, there is a variety of what's included. To get a fact, you have to be specific enough that everyone will automatically know what you're talking about, like, "The majority of gay men shave their asses" -- but, wait! Are we including gay men who have a bf or buddy shave their asses? That's not clear, so though it sounds like a fact, properly speaking it can't be.
Yes, I'm getting a bit picky there, but only in order to make a point: always wonder what isn't said, or, never trust generalizations. I used to hear one of my dad's friends grumble that "those Russians want to wipe us out!" Well... which Russians? what do you mean "wipe us out"? who is "us"?

But enough. The point is, people are reacting emotionally to what you posted. Some of it is reacting to you, some is reacting to the way you sounded, some is reacting to what kind of source you have, some is to your certainty, some could be to other things. What you should do is don't react back, ignore what seems insulting, and try to learn from the rest.

And BTW, if you can't remember what the show was exactly, don't stress over it. But tell as much as you know.

One more: I like the way you stick to your guns. Just... be sure they're actually loaded; there's nothing quite so foolish as fighting with an empty weapon.

 

[Kulindahr]

The thing is that these polls say are you shaved

when he generally said gay men prefer shaved which is different

a better poll would be simple yet cover generally more options

Which do you prefer?

• Shaved
• Trimmed
• Natural
• Dont Care

just my opinion

He's been saying both -- that most gay men prefer guys who are shaved, and that most gay guys are shaved. I came at it from the second perspective, trying to establish what guys actually do; the briefer poll came at it apparently from the perspective of preference.

I think the most effective poll would be one we can't do on here, a graphic poll: a page with two generic human male outlines divided into sections, and instructions to mark (wide-tipped color marker) the area you shave on the first and the ones you like your man/men to have shaved on the second.

What I found surprising in my poll was seeing that there really are guys who shave just their pubes -- to me that is just too strange! And right there is a good reason for including more options: it can discover things you didn't even think of.