Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

[T-Rexx]

Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

This tragedy is more about how the treatment of mental illness is failing and not about the guns.

Navy Yard, Sandy Hook, Aurora-Colorado, Tucson-Arizona -- all the men were under the care of mental health professionals at the time of their murder sprees.

There are crazy people all over the world.

But only in the United States do they regularly mass murder people.

Why do you suppose that is?

 

[Jack Springer]

Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

Looks like I stepped on some toes.

If we intend to ever stop these senseless killings then everything has to be on the table. There's plenty of fault to go around. I'm not a fan of 'super' automatic weapons and see no need for them in anyone's daily life.

I also think we need to accept the fact that some people can't fit into society. Pedophiles cannot be reformed and need to be locked up, many of the mentally ill need to be locked up also. I'm sorry but if we are serious we have to do something, something that some people are going to be upset with.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

Looks like I stepped on some toes.

If we intend to ever stop these senseless killings then everything has to be on the table. There's plenty of fault to go around. I'm not a fan of 'super' automatic weapons and see no need for them in anyone's daily life.

I also think we need to accept the fact that some people can't fit into society. Pedophiles cannot be reformed and need to be locked up, many of the mentally ill need to be locked up also. I'm sorry but if we are serious we have to do something, something that some people are going to be upset with.

Yes. You are right. If we are serious we need to do something.

Let me be clear about that: that doesn't mean "something, but anything other than doing more to keep guns out of the hands of people who have no business using them, and guns that serve no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people." In fact that's by far the most direct and practical thing we can work on.

 

[Jack Springer]

Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

^^

... and we need to lock up people that cannot live within society.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

^^

... and we need to lock up people that cannot live within society.

And the ones who are living invisibly or in families that do not really believe in mental healthcare, and simply don't expect their relative to pick up their firearms and go on a rampage?

That covers a fair amount of spree shooters. Possibly most.

These kinds of answers are utterly worthless because the sort of invasiveness that would be required to somehow forcibly and reliably find everyone with a potentially dangerous mental illness out there and somehow force care on them would not only be draconian but would also be immensely expensive. Something your political aisle would be utterly against on virtually any other topic.

 

[TX-Beau]

Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

"...Secondly, if more guns, and access to more guns, is the answer to curbing shooting sprees, then why haven't more guns curbed shooting sprees? As Mother Jones noted, nearly 100 state laws loosening gun restrictions have been passed in the last four years, yet 2012 was the worst year for mass shootings in recent history...."

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/09/17/the-growing-myth-of-mass-shootings-and-gun-free/195927

Aside from the curious fact that the usual suspects in here haven't started blaming Clinton yet (chop chop! you're asleep at your posts!)...

2nd Amendment arguments are BOGUS smokescreens. We Already had better gun regulation PERFECTLY constitutionally!

No need for amendments, referendums or frikkin' SC decisions.

We are LOOSENING our gun regulations, trying to go back to better regulations is NOT FUCKING TRYING to do something new, illegal and terrifyingly Un-American.

ANYONE who says otherwise is either lying or ignorant.

 

[TX-Beau]

Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

^^

... and we need to lock up people that cannot live within society.

Well since the right closed all the state institutions, you know who you can blame for that.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

Well since the right closed all the state institutions, you know who you can blame for that.

I feel the need to re-point out that many homeless people suffer mental illness that warrants institutionalization and yet you don't see a lot of homeless people committing these mass murders.

Because they don't have easy access to firearms.

 

[palbert]

Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

Well since the right closed all the state institutions, you know who you can blame for that.

I'm not sure the right or anything other than attrition closed them. From the cases it stands to reason that it became very difficult to put people like Blanche DuBois into an institution.

 

[TX-Beau]

Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

Reagan did it. Look it up.

 

[TX-Beau]

Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

I feel the need to re-point out that many homeless people suffer mental illness that warrants institutionalization and yet you don't see a lot of homeless people committing these mass murders.

Because they don't have easy access to firearms.

I don't disagree with you, and notice how none of the staunch defenders of the American Way in here have said peep about how a crazy person was able to LEGALLY purchase a shotgun.

Or the APPALLINGLY obvious way to stop more people with RECORDS of crazy from getting guns.

Their arguments get more and more asinine with every preventable tragedy.

 

[TX-Beau]

Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

I also find some black humor in the fact that he shot the guards WITH GUNS then picked up their weapons.

Too bad they weren't armed schoolteachers who would have been prepared for such a thing.

 

[Rolyo85]

I also find some black humor in the fact that he shot the guards WITH GUNS then picked up their weapons.

Too bad they weren't armed schoolteachers who would have been prepared for such a thing.

Or even better - armed school children. Wait for the crickets to respond with fuzzy silence to the homeless argument as well as the other ones that actually make sense. I'm expected some more lofty rhetoric dealing with the need for regulating "the militia", whatever that's supposed to be...

 

[palbert]

Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

Reagan did it. Look it up.

With the exception of California the move away from institutionalization was accomplished well before he became president.

The United States has experienced two waves of deinstitutionalisation. The first wave began in the 1950s and targeted people with mental illness.[1] The second wave began roughly 15 years later and focused on individuals who had been diagnosed with a developmental disability (e.g. mental retardation).[1] Deinstitutionalisation continues today, though the movements are growing smaller as fewer people are sent to institutions.

Numerous social forces led to a move for deinstitutionalisation; researchers generally give credit to six main factors: criticisms of public mental hospitals, incorporation of mind-altering drugs in treatment, support from President Kennedy for federal policy changes, shifts to community-based care, changes in public perception, and individual states' desires to reduce costs from mental hospitals.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation

HOW RELEASE OF MENTAL PATIENTS BEGAN

Written in 1984, this article lays the presidential blame at feet of Presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy and Johnson. By Reagan's presidency the mental health foundation was in disarray.

http://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/30/science/how-release-of-mental-patients-began.html?pagewanted=1

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/file/542-335-bh-incarceration_0.pdf

Pay particular note to graphs 1 and 2, page 6, showing the decline in numbers of those in mental health institutions and the corresponding increase in the prison population.​

(I do admit to the error of suggesting the courts played a key role. They mirrored what was taking place in the broader society.)

 

[T-Rexx]

Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

... and we need to lock up people that cannot live within society.

That would be an 18th century approach to the problem.

 

[palbert]

Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

Would have trouble locking this miscreant up.

Less than a month before he went on the shooting rampage that killed 12 people, Washington Navy Yard gunman Aaron Alexis twice visited U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs medical centers to seek treatment for insomnia but, when asked by doctors, he denied having thoughts about harming himself or others, the department said Wednesday.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162...ntal-health-of-navy-yard-gunman-aaron-alexis/

 

[Jack Springer]

Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

I also find some black humor in the fact that he shot the guards WITH GUNS then picked up their weapons.

Too bad they weren't armed schoolteachers who would have been prepared for such a thing.

Hopefully this will shut up people who think that all schools should have armed guards and armed teachers.

 

[Jack Springer]

Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

Reagan did it. Look it up.

I think you need to read a little more about the history of being politically correct.

 

[Rolyo85]

Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

That would be an 18th century approach to the problem.

So totally in sync with Republican mentality.

 

[Jack Springer]

Re: Breaking News: Shooting At U.S. Navy Yard In Washington, D.C.

What's your solution?