Should a Catholic Accept Evolutionary Theory Without Qualifications?

[kallipolis]

We are left with the paradox of the infinite regress, totally unassailable, as each advocate would say.

And as for belief systems, it is easily encountered:


---Stephen Hawking (1988)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down (one of many variants)

Until that is recognized the discussion remains sterile. All are left with no more than belief.

Ah! yes, faith is just that....without the personal relationship with the creator (The Father) to enlighten us, it is an exercise filled with academic reasoning calculated to bore the observer to tears......this we agree.

 

[Telstra]

The 1960's and the 1970's, tsk, tsk, tsk! The age of Modern errors. Evolution was never taught as a fact within Catholicism. There are elements of evolution that the Church has no problems with, and there are elements that are contrary to Catholicism. Evolution is still a theory, not a Fact. As for me learning Catholic doctrine from Fundamentalist Protestants, that is impossible as a Catholic.

In science a theory is a fact. The theory of gravity is a fact.

 

[Mariatenebre]

As a Catholic, I do not have to believe that Man evolved from Apes, as Man has a far greater Intelligence than that of the animal world, far greater than the supposed ancestry with Apes, and as a Catholic, I do not, and am not required to believe that Man was created within a literal 7 days time table as stated in Genesis account of Creation. I do believe that there was a literal Adam and Eve who are mentioned in the book of Genesis. I do believe that Creation took a lot longer than the Genesis time table. Could God have done his creation in a literal 7 days? Yes, he could have if he wanted to, because he has the Power to do so.


To believe or not to believe in the Theory of Evolution is not a requirement for my Salvation.

It dosen't matter whether you believe it or not. According to science and biology which has been proven humans did evolve from ape like ancestors. Our greater intelligence came about due to evolution. In fact apes are fairly close to our intelligence as you can even teach them to use currency and to speak sign language. Evolution ties the sciences together and my brother a Biologist will tell you that you must accept Evolution to have a career in the sciences. Evolution is a proven scientific theory. Your Christian creation myth has been debunked and science also shows there was not a literal Adam or Eve and certainly no original sin. In fact the Adam and Eve story as well as the Garden of Eden was derived from previous Middle Eastern creation myths. Evolution is a fact you can deny it all you want and choose to live in fantasy and denial just as you deny the science that shows us that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality but the fact is that Evolution is a proven scientific theory.

The 1960's and the 1970's, tsk, tsk, tsk! The age of Modern errors. Evolution was never taught as a fact within Catholicism. There are elements of evolution that the Church has no problems with, and there are elements that are contrary to Catholicism. Evolution is still a theory, not a Fact. As for me learning Catholic doctrine from Fundamentalist Protestants, that is impossible as a Catholic.

You clearly don't have a knowledge of scientific terminology. In science a theory is a hypothesis that has proven to be true. Like the theory of gravity. When creationists say that evolution is only a theory they show they have no knowledge of scientific terminology. Evolution is a fact and a theory and you can not accept your Catholic myths and have a career in the sciences.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

The fact is that you as another poster says have no interest in truth. Science has the truth but you choose to deny science if it does not fit with your religion. In essence you are trying to modify reality and science to fit with your religion when you should be modifying your religion to fit science as science is actually true, it works and has objective evidence.

 

[Kulindahr]

I haven't heard anyone yet who understands evolution also believe water turns into wine, man walk on water, raise the dead ...etc.

Your experience is very limited, then.

 

[Kulindahr]

I do think the main alternative to evolutionary theory is miraculous creation.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Kulindahr]

Pardon me, but I have trouble squaring your broken field running here with your Catechism reference in kallipolis' Science and theistic belief thread, which reference is:



As evolution is a methodically researched discipline you are not compelled or encouraged to doubt it, for the Church here holds it consistent with the über-god's work.

Your rereading of your source article seems indicated.

Well stated.

 

[Kulindahr]

Given that evolution is stated to work on sheer randomness, there is no way that evolutionary science can assert that no deity was or is involved: there is no way to look at a given mutation and decide whether or not it was random. So there's no conflict whatsoever between the two.

 

[bankside]

Given that evolution is stated to work on sheer randomness, there is no way that evolutionary science can assert that no deity was or is involved: there is no way to look at a given mutation and decide whether or not it was random. So there's no conflict whatsoever between the two.

Evolution does not assert that a genetic change is of unknowable origin, it asserts that a genetic change is of random origin. An unknowable origin would permit of divine fiddling. A random origin would not.

 

[Kulindahr]

Evolution does not assert that a genetic change is of unknowable origin, it asserts that a genetic change is of random origin. An unknowable origin would permit of divine fiddling. A random origin would not.

There's no way to distinguish between the two.

 

[kallipolis]

There's no way to distinguish between the two.

Well said...for quibbling over randomness, and the (apparent) unknowable might suggest that uncertainty is a bonding clue.

 

[FirmaFan]

Given that evolution is stated to work on sheer randomness, there is no way that evolutionary science can assert that no deity was or is involved: there is no way to look at a given mutation and decide whether or not it was random. So there's no conflict whatsoever between the two.

Evolution is the result of random mutation and non-random natural selection. The random mutation part is simply variation in the inherited DNA passed to the offspring. These mutations, while observed could be accurately described as random, still follow the laws of chemistry and physics. Their occurrence is as "random" as the random movement of billiard balls after a break. Unless you have good reason for positing divine direction for the random mutations that occur during reproduction, the natural processes involved alone are sufficient to explain evolution. You are correct that science can not assert that no deity was involved in the random mutations - nor can it not assert that it was the work of a magic pixy or a leprechaun, or a telekinetic alien, or an number of an infinite array of unfalsifiable claims. The time to posit such claims is when their is evidence. Until then, you are just injecting conjectures from whole-cloth into a process that neither requires nor is demanding of such claims.

 

[palemale]

Evolution is a fact and a theory and you can not accept your Catholic myths and have a career in the sciences.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

I'm an atheist who was raised Catholic. However, I do feel compelled to defend the Church on this. There is no conflict between Catholic Doctrine and evolution, except that Catholic doctrine, as least as I learned it in Catholic school, is that evolution is part of God's plan. Catholic's do not believe that the bible show be taken literally. Rather, the Bible contains stories that reveal truths, but that the role of the Church is to interpret the Bible to reveal its meaning.

 

[medic1]

All people should accept Evolution because it has been proven to be true. Science always wins out over mythology.

And do you include your own beliefs in Paganism in that statement? Yes i am a Catholic,i am also a Dr. As i have posted before some of the greatest Astronomers and scientists are ordained Priests,many of which work in some of the most advanced facilities on earth.

 

[Kulindahr]

Evolution is a fact and a theory and you can not accept your Catholic myths and have a career in the sciences.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

The fact is that you as another poster says have no interest in truth. Science has the truth but you choose to deny science if it does not fit with your religion. In essence you are trying to modify reality and science to fit with your religion when you should be modifying your religion to fit science as science is actually true, it works and has objective evidence.

You demonstrate profound ignorance of Roman Catholicism when you say such things.

 

[Love me 2]

i'm an atheist who was raised catholic. However, i do feel compelled to defend the church on this. There is no conflict between catholic doctrine and evolution, except that catholic doctrine, as least as i learned it in catholic school, is that evolution is part of god's plan. Catholic's do not believe that the bible show be taken literally. Rather, the bible contains stories that reveal truths, but that the role of the church is to interpret the bible to reveal its meaning.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!!!!

 

[Mariatenebre]

And do you include your own beliefs in Paganism in that statement? Yes i am a Catholic,i am also a Dr. As i have posted before some of the greatest Astronomers and scientists are ordained Priests,many of which work in some of the most advanced facilities on earth.

My beliefs do not contradict Science and I do not take my creation myths literally.

 

[ruivinho]

As a Catholic, I do not have to believe that Man evolved from Apes, as Man has a far greater Intelligence than that of the animal world,

It is devastating to me to see such a well established theory to be refuted with such a simple-minded argument. I would ask to elaborate on how the fact that the humans have greater intelligence than the other animals anulls the possibility that we are descendents from other animals, but I'm fairly confident you'd have no answer.

"The Church does allow beliefs in Evolution as long as elements do not contradict the teachings set forth by the Church and her guidelines concerning the Sciences."

If you way of thinking is limited by what the Church allows you to think, you're abdicating you're right to reason. I doubt that God, who gave you free will, would agree with that.

"Evolutionary elements in the theory that does not contradict God's Creation, will lead me to deeper things of the Supernatural, It will only increase my Faith in God's power in His Creation."

This shows you're willingly biased from the beginning, you just pick out whatever does not shake your faith. That means your faith is weak, and if it were strong you wouldn't be so careful as to avoid at all cost facts that might shake it up. If you really have faith in God, you should face the facts that don't see to fit and reflect on them. It might even result in an increase in your faith who knows.

 

[ruivinho]

And to answer the actual topic, I was raised with a catholic upbringing (sunday school and all of that), and NEVER I was told to question Evolution, it was taken as a Fact. I was also disencouraged to interpret "Adam and Eve" sort of tails as literal

 

[Telstra]

And do you include your own beliefs in Paganism in that statement? Yes i am a Catholic,i am also a Dr. As i have posted before some of the greatest Astronomers and scientists are ordained Priests,many of which work in some of the most advanced facilities on earth.

A lot of medical doctors are religious.
Don't know why tho. Maybe they deal with people everyday like priests ??

 

[zoltanspawn]

I'm an atheist who was raised Catholic. However, I do feel compelled to defend the Church on this. There is no conflict between Catholic Doctrine and evolution, except that Catholic doctrine, as least as I learned it in Catholic school, is that evolution is part of God's plan. Catholic's do not believe that the bible show be taken literally. Rather, the Bible contains stories that reveal truths, but that the role of the Church is to interpret the Bible to reveal its meaning.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!!!!

Oh, Love Me 2?

The entire purpose of this thread, which you've started, is to challenge a figurative reading of Creation and suggest a literal interpretation of the Bible.

(I am assuming we are not making remarks ritually for the purposes of this discussion.)

This sort of thing, from the article you linked in the OP, makes that clear to me:

The Book of Genesis depicts God as being personally involved in every stage of creation. “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth” (Genesis 1:1). The text says further ”God made the wild animals, each, according to their kinds (Gen 1:25). In other words, God specifically created each animal and person that is in an intentional way. The text of Genesis, while not scientific, states a truth that we cannot set aside: That God created (and sustains) all that we see. That what is, cannot MERELY be explained (as most evolutionists state) by blind, random natural selection. The Genesis text is clear to state that God alone creates and in doing so he is present at every stage, is personal, purposeful and acts with intelligence and goal in mind. He creates everything according to its kind.

So, are we thinking of Creation in figurative terms, or scientific terms?

Facts and metaphors each have their place, don't they?