Should Prop 60 pass or not pass? Condoms are made for gay men? Not for straight people?

[star-warrior]

Bad legislation once it gains a foothold seems to spread across other states like a virus. Vote no, because motion would enable the public to victimise porn actors under a pseudo legal footing which may be unconstitutional anyway.

 

[Soilwork]

Hear me out please. ....... all these big name porn stars, straight and gay, do work for porn companies which are apart of a union.

No. there is no such thing as a porn star union. that's totally not true, you have no idea what you're talking about.

I have no idea where you got the idea that there is a union, but there is no porn union. You're so full of shit that it's kind of funny yet embarrassing.

I know this to be true because I've worked in the industry for nearly 15 years and have worked only for major studios.

There is NO SUCH THING as a porn star union.

I have no idea where you got such a stupid idea.

 

[Soilwork]

I just said people are still getting HIV and other serious STI's and STD's from doing porn which is true.

No, it's not. There hasn't been an on-set case of HIV infection in years from any studio that follows proper testing protocol.

You have this easy job where somewhat average and attractive looking women and men can do, it's crazy to think there aren't health repercussions with that. People filming up to 10 scenes a week. My god.

OK so first... no, shooting porn is not easy... most people who try flame out. those are the scenes we don't release.

And 10 scenes per week? No.... nobody is doing that. My top exclusive stars shoot maybe 6-8 scene per year. Even the guys working for the assembly line studios aren't doing more than maybe 15 scenes per year. A few of the guys who've worked for a whole lot of studios over a short period maybe are making as many as 20 scenes per year. Maybe 25 tops. Nobody is doing 10 scenes in a week. that's just silly.

 

[Taralen]

No. there is no such thing as a porn star union. that's totally not true, you have no idea what you're talking about.

I have no idea where you got the idea that there is a union, but there is no porn union. You're so full of shit that it's kind of funny yet embarrassing.

I know this to be true because I've worked in the industry for nearly 15 years and have worked only for major studios.

There is NO SUCH THING as a porn star union.

I have no idea where you got such a stupid idea.

What the fuck is this shit then?

http://www.entertainmentadultunion.com/

Hmm?

I'm making crap up right? I'm talking out my ass huh? I'm full of shit? Could you at least tell me what this is?

http://www.iswface.org/

I'm just coming up with stupid ideas? Maybe I am. Maybe I am the fool. Since I am, could you be a dear and tell me what in the fuck in this is? Thanks.

http://www.bayswan.org/

No, it's not. There hasn't been an on-set case of HIV infection in years from any studio that follows proper testing protocol.

That's already a lie. Are you god? How the fuck do you know that?

It's not all about you Bob. There is more to porn than your gayforpay endeavors you film. You do you and worry about your business.

OK so first... no, shooting porn is not easy... most people who try flame out. those are the scenes we don't release.

And 10 scenes per week? No.... nobody is doing that. My top exclusive stars shoot maybe 6-8 scene per year. Even the guys working for the assembly line studios aren't doing more than maybe 15 scenes per year. A few of the guys who've worked for a whole lot of studios over a short period maybe are making as many as 20 scenes per year. Maybe 25 tops. Nobody is doing 10 scenes in a week. that's just silly.

Again, it's not all about you Bob? I don't give a fuck what you and your porn company does. You do you, and you have faith and god and do what makes you happy.

But since you want to keep mentioning your line of work, again. I'm not talking about your little gayforpay films that you do which only a select audience watches.

I'm talking about straight porn and general gay porn. These actors are filming numerous scenes a week.

Maybe even in different parts. They film the foreplay on Monday, the blowjob on Tuesday, and at the end of Wednesday do the fucking, and that's three scenes for film 1. Then Thursday-Saturday. Three more scenes are done for film 2.

It's silly for you and your own business. Because you care about the health of your actors and I applaud that.

But it's not silly for higher end companies like Wicked, and Vivid to do shit like that. Because they don't care about their actors. They just care about the money.

 

[Soilwork]

there's no way to determine whether an infection occurs in a production or whether the performer was infected by activity in their personal life.

Actually, if a performer tests positive for anything, their scene partners are all tested, too.

That's how we know that Derek Burts and Rod Daily weren't telling the truth that they were infected on set; Their scene partners were all tested and all remain HIV negative years later.

 

[KaraBulut]

...That's how we know that Derek Burts and Rod Daily weren't telling the truth that they were infected on set; Their scene partners were all tested and all remain HIV negative years later.

Hmmm.... I'm surprised you mentioned Rod Daily- you usually are accurate on these things (and I mean that as a compliment).

Rod Daily wasn't tested on set and he never said he was infected on set. He was tested in Arizona at a private clinic after his girlfriend Cameron Bay (also a porn performer) tested positive. Bay was tested under FSC oversight.

The comments by Daily and AHF should have been the warning for the industry that they needed to take a more proactive approach and that AHF would take the issue to the California Legislature and Cal/OSHA:

A fourth performer, Rod Daily, said he learned he was HIV-positive earlier this month. Daily, who has been in a romantic relationship with Cameron Bay for about two years, has performed in gay porn since 2005 and said he always used condoms.

“That’s 12 years that I’ve shot with HIV-positive people, used condoms and never been HIV-positive,” Daily said. “If anything, I know that condoms do work. I was a guinea pig for that.

“I just don’t know how an industry stands here and says they care so much about their performers and, a week after someone tests positive, they’re out there shooting without condoms,” Daily said. “Ultimately, it’s a business, and their main concern is money and not their performers.”

Source

The AIDS Healthcare Foundation, a Los Angeles-based group that has worked aggressively to promote mandatory use of condoms in porn, pointed to the incident as another example of the industry’s failure to police itself.

“After lifting its self-imposed moratorium on shooting last week, the porn industry and the Free Speech Coalition do not have one shred of credibility left with the news now of performer Rod Daily’s acute — i.e. recent — HIV infection,” AHF President Michael Weinstein said in a written statement. “We wish Mr. Daily good health with his newfound sero-status, and know that people can live well with HIV. However, we remain gravely concerned the porn industry continues to endanger its workers by ignoring prudent health and worker safety laws by shooting adult films with out condoms.”

Source

 

[Soilwork]

Hmmm.... I'm surprised you mentioned Rod Daily- you usually are accurate on these things (and I mean that as a compliment).

using the AHF as a source was your first mistake. Why do you think they were so desperate to "prove" he was infected on set? that's run by the same guy who wrote Prop 60.

 

[Soilwork]

you are correct that Rod Daily did't claim he was infected on set, but the implication from most of the press was that either he was (he wasn't) or his girlfriend was (also didn't happen). I had that wrong, although there's a second star who claims they were infected on set whose scene partners were all tested and came back negative (and I can't be arsed to look that one up).

My point stands... nobody has been infected with HIV on set in many years so long as the proper protocols are followed.

And really... it doesn't affect me... I make condom scenes and the one BB studio I did work for... I turned it into a condom-only studio while working there and left when they went back to bareback.

 

[KaraBulut]

using the AHF as a source was your first mistake. Why do you think they were so desperate to "prove" he was infected on set? that's run by the same guy who wrote Prop 60.

Actually, I didn't use AHF as the source- I remembered the original stories about Daily and Bay and I searched for articles to confirm what I remembered of the incident. The problem that I kept running into was that many of the stories used Daily's real name in the story, so I couldn't post those articles here.

The Daily stories were prompted by a AHF press conference in which Daily was one of the 5 performers who alleged sloppy tracking by the industry. Their mistake was focusing on kink.com which is one of the responsible studios in California on the subject of STD testing and safer sex practices.

you are correct that Rod Daily did't claim he was infected on set, but the implication from most of the press was that either he was (he wasn't) or his girlfriend was (also didn't happen). I had that wrong, although there's a second star who claims they were infected on set whose scene partners were all tested and came back negative (and I can't be arsed to look that one up).

The 5 people at the press conference were Cameron Bay, Rod Daily, Derrick Burts, Darren James and Patrick Stone. The Stone case is bizarre since he tested HIV+ then he later tested HIV-, making the earlier HIV result appear to be a false positive.

Stone made allegations against kink.com about straight scenes he appeared in however it became apparent that he had done bareback gay porn for other studios. Derrick Burts and Rod Daily had rather complicated personal lives, including working as escorts (both had ads on Rentboy.com).

My point stands... nobody has been infected with HIV on set in many years so long as the proper protocols are followed.

I can't make as definitive a statement as you. I would say that your statement is correct if the phrases "HIV-infected" were subtituted and the phrase "that we know of" were appended.

And really... it doesn't affect me... I make condom scenes and the one BB studio I did work for... I turned it into a condom-only studio while working there and left when they went back to bareback.

I'm not pointing to you as one of the irresponsible studios or producers. I'm making the point that for every responsible studio, there's plenty of other studios that aren't as responsible, aren't using safer sex practices and aren't being as responsible with testing their performers.

To be clear- I don't disagree that Prop 60 is an arcane and largely pointless piece of legislation. It's also an example of why the whole Proposition idea out in California is a good-idea-gone-bad. Where I disagree with you is on the overall responsibility in the porn industry in California where there's a lot of small, irresponsible studios that are dragging down the larger, more responsible studios. My point is that the larger studios should have taken the lead in putting together a better system and they should have been more proactive in lobbying for updated regulations that focused not only on condoms and more upon comprehensive just-in-time testing, third-party tracking of results, use of PrEP and worker safety/health issues.

 

[Soilwork]

But they did do that. The AIM Clinic was a great resource and was able to keep adult performers safe. The AHF had them closed down because of their crusade against the porn industry. Because of Obamacare, the main function of the AHF was nullified... they needed a new revenue stream. That's when their anti-porn crusade started and that's probably why Weinstein wants his own high-paying government job.

 

[KaraBulut]

But they did do that. The AIM Clinic was a great resource and was able to keep adult performers safe. The AHF had them closed down because of their crusade against the porn industry. Because of Obamacare, the main function of the AHF was nullified... they needed a new revenue stream. That's when their anti-porn crusade started and that's probably why Weinstein wants his own high-paying government job.

AIM was great. Unfortunately, they were underfunded and didn't invest in a secure electronic medical record system. The data breach that leaked the real names and personal information for their clients was their undoing. Someone should have stepped up and taken over for what AIM did for the industry.

I'm not sure of Weinstein and AHF's motivation. I am always suspicious of "public health" organizations that hold a lot of press conferences, though.

 

[Soilwork]

AIM was great. Unfortunately, they were underfunded and didn't invest in a secure electronic medical record system. The data breach that leaked the real names and personal information for their clients was their undoing. Someone should have stepped up and taken over for what AIM did for the industry.

I'm not sure of Weinstein and AHF's motivation. I am always suspicious of "public health" organizations that hold a lot of press conferences, though.

If that was even a data breach. Did they ever prove who leaked that info?

anyway... My understanding is that AHF's business model is nullified by Obamacare so they're looking for a new way to make money.

 

[KaraBulut]

If that was even a data breach. Did they ever prove who leaked that info?

From what I heard AIM had given out web logons to the studios so that they could lookup results in the database (which was probably a HIPAA violation). They didn't really monitor the access or institute good security protocols, so the leak was probably the result of a hack where someone extracted the information via the web.

anyway... My understanding is that AHF's business model is nullified by Obamacare so they're looking for a new way to make money.

If anything they will make more money from the Affordable Care Act (ACA). AHF has big contracts with Medi-Cal and public hospital districts in southern Florida. ACA increases funding to Medicaid and it favors the capitated model that AHF uses (Florida is not participating in the Medicaid expansion under ACA, though).

AHF is very litigious and they have over $30 million in cash in the bank. They also have a steady pipeline of government grants that will keep them going for a long time.

 

[Soilwork]

From what I heard AIM had given out web logons to the studios so that they could lookup results in the database (which was probably a HIPAA violation). They didn't really monitor the access or institute good security protocols, so the leak was probably the result of a hack where someone extracted the information via the web.

I mean, the whole point of AIM was that we could log on, check the status of someone's tests before shooting and then print that out and share it with scene partners.

Ugh, I'm glad I don't have to deal with that anymore. What a pain in the ass that was.

 

[SaskGuy]

AIM (as well as AOL in general) sucks horse cock. Last time I used it, it was full of bugs, if it even worked at all. I never used it when it was popular, but I guess it's like Yahoo... a once great site, and the hub of the entire internet, reduced to a buggy, broken down mess that should just be put out of its misery. It's like MySpace... it's amazing that it even still exists at all.

 

[Soilwork]

AIM (as well as AOL in general) sucks horse cock. Last time I used it, it was full of bugs, if it even worked at all. I never used it when it was popular, but I guess it's like Yahoo... a once great site, and the hub of the entire internet, reduced to a buggy, broken down mess that should just be put out of its misery. It's like MySpace... it's amazing that it even still exists at all.

you know that we're talking about the defunct "Adult Industry Medical Clinic" that served as a database for adult industry porn stars and their STD tests, right?

 

[Soilwork]

What the fuck is this shit then?

http://www.entertainmentadultunion.com/

Hmm?

If you only knew how much of a fool you just made of yourself.

That's not "a union." That was a failed attempt to start a porn star union that nobody joined. No big studios work with a porn stars union. it doesn't exist. There's a lot more to that story but I can't be arsed to spell it out for you.

I'm talking out my ass huh? I'm full of shit? Could you at least tell me what this is?

http://www.iswface.org/

I'm just coming up with stupid ideas? Maybe I am. Maybe I am the fool. Since I am, could you be a dear and tell me what in the fuck in this is? Thanks.

http://www.bayswan.org/

Neither of those things are unions, either. You're really bad at this.

There is more to porn than your gayforpay endeavors you film.

Again... you're making a fool of yourself. I don't work with Gay for Pay performers. I work for a studio that only works with gay men.

I'm not talking about your little gayforpay films that you do which only a select audience watches.

Again... I don't make "gayforpay" movies. I only work with gay men.

I'm talking about straight porn and general gay porn. These actors are filming numerous scenes a week.

no... sorry... but that's just not the case. I don't know where you get that, but that's not how it works.

Maybe even in different parts. They film the foreplay on Monday, the blowjob on Tuesday, and at the end of Wednesday do the fucking, and that's three scenes for film 1. Then Thursday-Saturday. Three more scenes are done for film 2.

No... again... no studio does it like this. Are you off your meds? Why would we take three days to shoot a scene? that makes no sense at all. Fucking Hell, you need your meds adjusted. I'm just finishing a 9-day run where we shot 6 scenes (2 travel days, 6 shooting days and a day off in the middle.) We shoot one scene per day... the performers shoot maybe 2 scenes each over that time. One guy just shot one scene. What you're saying makes no sense. It would cost a fortune to pay your crew and food and lodging costs to spread a scene out over three days. You're an idiot.


And you have no idea what the fuck you're taking about.

 

[72-Jay]

Only heard of this 'Prop 60' thing tonight when seeing this thread...
Sounds a bit scary for the porn industry.

Did it pass or not??

 

[KaraBulut]

Did it pass or not??

It failed. The results were
No- 4,646,782 (54.0%)
Yes- 3,962,519 (46.0%)

 

[Soilwork]

It didn't pass. Nor did Michael Weinstein's other ballot measure Prop 61. Yay.