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Should Texas secede from the U.S.?

Should Texas secede from the U.S.?

  • Total voters
    92
Críostóir said:
Explain what you mean by the red portion? I don't disagree with any or the rest of this post, but I find it impossible to comprehend how anyone could believe that part. Serious question.
Click to expand...

The cultural contribution of Texas has always been one driven by an independent, "can do" spirit. It goes back to the original settlers , who decided that they 'd had enough of the restrictions placed upon them by Mexico. This led them to break off on their own for nine years before choosing to join the United States.

As far as pop culture goes, Texas has played a unique role in the development of Country-Western Music (The "Austin" Sound). The Austin City Limits TV show, still a staple on PBS, was initially created with an eye and ear toward original Texas music, featuring artists who created innovative sounds in everything from western swing and Texas blues to Tejano music, progressive country, and rock and roll.

Texas has contributed to the American cuisine with its own Western style version of the Southern barbeque, as well as the infusion of Mexican influence into other foods, to create the Tex-Mex cuisine. Texas is where Mexican, Southern and Western cultures blend into something that is uniquely Texas.

Texas is the land of "Friday Night Lights" where the American phenomenon of high school football takes on epic proportions. It may not be the only state where that happens, but it there is no shortage of professional players who have come from Texas.

Below is a list of Texans, who have contributed to American culture (taken from Wikipedia)


ActorsComedians

Music

Athletes

Art and Architecture
Arthello Beck (1941–2004), artist
Harold Dow Bugbee (1900–1963), artist
Nicholas Joseph Clayton (1840–1916), architect
O'Neil Ford (1905–1982), architect
Donald Judd (1928–1994), sculptor
Janet Krueger (born c. 1953), painter, educator
Julian Onderdonk (1882–1922), painter
Frank Reaugh (1860-1945), painter
Julian Schnabel (born 1951), artist, film director
Zachary Selig (born 1949), artist, painter, writer
Mark Seliger, photographer
Mack White (born 1952), comic book artist
Laura Wilson (born 1945), photographer

Literature
Susan Wittig Albert (born 1940), mystery writer
Sybil Leonard Armes (1914–2007), author, poet, musician
James Lee Burke (born 1936), mystery writer
Harley True Burton (1888-1964), author The History of the JA Ranch
Katherine Center (born 1972), author of chick lit, mommy lit
Sandra Cisneros (born 1954), author and poet
Deborah Crombie (born 1952), mystery writer
J. Frank Dobie (1888–1964), folklorist and writer about open-range days
Carole Nelson Douglas (born 1944), mystery writer
Kitty Ferguson (born 1941), science writer
Horton Foote (1916–2009), author and playwright
J. Evetts Haley (1901-1995), historian and political activist
Patricia Highsmith (born 1921), writer, author of Strangers on a Train and The Talented Mr. Ripley
Thomas Elisha Hogg (1842–1880), poet, writer, editor
Mary Austin Holley (1784–1846), wrote first English-language history of Texas
Robert E. Howard (1906–1936), author of the Conan the Barbarian stories, and other pulp adventure tales
William Humphrey (1924–1997), novelist
Larry McMurtry (born 1936), Pulitzer Prize winning author of Lonesome Dove
Rick Riordan (born 1964), novelist
Lou Halsell Rodenberger (1926–2009), author, educator, journalist
Dorothy Scarborough (1878–1935), author, folklorist
Lon Tinkle (1906–1980), author, Texas historian
Sergio Troncoso (born 1961), author of The Last Tortilla and Other Stories, and The Nature of Truth
Walter Prescott Webb (1888–1963), author, historian
 
Críostóir said:
Explain what you mean by the red portion? I don't disagree with any or the rest of this post, but I find it impossible to comprehend how anyone could believe that part. Serious question.
Click to expand...

Well, Ronboy already touched on the topic, but I’ll add a little more. These are from various sources….

In Houston:
The Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo, the world's largest rodeo
The Houston Theater District, which ranks second in the US for the number of theater seats in a downtown area and is one of only five cities with permanent professional resident companies in all of the major performing arts disciplines (theatre, ballet, opera, orchestra)
The Houston Ballet (ranked one of the best in the nation)
Houston's Bayou City Art Festival
WorldFest-Houston, one of the three original international film festivals in North America after San Francisco and New York
The Byzantine Fresco Chapel Museum, which has the only intact Byzantine frescoes in the western hemisphere

In San Antonio:
Several Spanish missions from the early 1700’s
The Riverwalk
The Southwest School of Art & Craft (a nationally-recognized leader in arts education and one of the nation‘s largest), which offers studio programs for more than 4,000 people annually; attendance at art classes they taught throughout the community in schools and at social service agencies exceeded 40,000
The San Antonio Museum of Art, which has the largest collection of Asian art in the southern US
The Cathedral of San Fernando, which some say is the oldest cathedral in the US (it’s certainly one of the oldest)
And of course, the Alamo

In Austin:
South by Southwest, one of the largest music festivals in the US
Austin City Limits, the longest-running concert music program on American television
Not surprisingly, dubbed the “Live Music Capital of the World”
Only city in the world known to still use moonlight towers
UT Austin has the largest university art museum (UT also owns a Gutenberg Bible and the first permanent photograph by Nicéphore Niépce)
In 2004, the school was listed as the 15th best in the world by Times Higher Education Supplement
UT Austin also worked with MIT to create ArchNet, the world’s largest online databank of international architecture

In Dallas and Ft. Worth:
The Cathedral of Hope, a predominantly LGBT congregation, claims to be the world's largest "liberal Christian church with a primary outreach to lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender persons"
The Meadows Museum has one of the most comprehensive collections of Spanish art outside of Spain.
The Fort Worth Zoo "has been ranked as a top zoo in the nation by Family Life magazine, the Los Angeles Times and USA Today, [and] one of the top zoos in the South by Southern Living Reader's Choice Awards”
Dallas Blooms, the Southwest's largest outdoor floral festival
Fair Park in Dallas is a significant example of Art Deco architecture, and is the only intact and unaltered pre-1950s world fair site remaining in the US

Texas also has the largest Renaissance Fair (according to some sources; but I haven’t seen any sources say otherwise.) Big Bend National Park, famous for its natural resources, geology, and fossil records, has more types of birds, bats, and cacti than any other national park in the United States. The city of Tyler has a Municipal Rose Garden, which at 14-acres is the world's largest rose garden. Texas also has more National Historic Landmarks than 35 other states.

Many prominent architects have built throughout the metropolitan areas:
I.M. Pei, Louis Kahn, Rafael Moneo, Renzo Piano, Philip Johnson, Mies van der Rohe, Frank Lloyd Wright, Tadao Ando, Gordon Bunshaft, Richard Meier, Robert Stern, Ricardo Legorreta, Cesar Pelli, Caudill Rowlett Scott, Hellmuth, Obata and Kassabaum, and Skidmore, Owings & Merrill.
By the end of 2009, Foster and Partners (Lord Norman Foster) and the Office for Metropolitan Architecture (Rem Koolhaas) will be on the list as well.

And of course there’s Tejano, Tex-Mex, and Dr Pepper. :D
 
Well, when I get the time to read all that, I will probably consider myself well told. But I would like to point out that football does NOT count as "culture," in the sense of "cultural leadership," and that people being BORN in Texas doesn't make it a cultural leader if they have to LEAVE to go be cultural...for example, Robert La Fosse would never have had a significant dance career had he stayed in Beaumont, where he was born.
 
Críostóir said:
Well, when I get the time to read all that, I will probably consider myself well told. But I would like to point out that football does NOT count as "culture," in the sense of "cultural leadership," and that people being BORN in Texas doesn't make it a cultural leader if they have to LEAVE to go be cultural...for example, Robert La Fosse would never have had a significant dance career had he stayed in Beaumont, where he was born.
Click to expand...
But he would have in Houston, if he wanted to drive like an hour to the city.

I think you should read that post, it cancels out everything you just said.
 
Piggy said:
Apparently, our Governor thinks we should. :rolleyes:

Article: Perry says Texas can leave the union if it wants to

rick%20perry.jpg
Click to expand...

Without reading the rest of the thread, Gov. Goodhair is simply wrong. Texas can't secede from the Union. Never could. So the issue is moot. The Governor's comments are only good for showing how ignorant he is about Texas history.

Oh, and he did try to squirm out of it by saying that he was just telling about what some folk were talking about. I'm not convinced by his "explanation."
 
BlackWolf said:
But he would have in Houston, if he wanted to drive like an hour to the city.

I think you should read that post, it cancels out everything you just said.
Click to expand...

No it doesn't. Whatever it all says. Sorry, but had he danced in Houston it's very unlikely Jerome Robbins would have choreographed on him. Twyla Tharp might have, but the likelihood is less. And a Tony nom for Best Actor would NOT have come to pass.

While Houston may have a perfectly serviceable--even excellent--ballet company, American Ballet Theatre and the New York City Ballet are simply the best ballet companies in this country; La Fosse danced with both. And no city in the country (maybe the world, except perhaps London) has as much theatre as New York. No, La Fosse anywhere but NYC would have had a dramatically lessened career.

construct said:
Without reading the rest of the thread, Gov. Goodhair is simply wrong. Texas can't secede from the Union. Never could. So the issue is moot. The Governor's comments are only good for showing how ignorant he is about Texas history.

Oh, and he did try to squirm out of it by saying that he was just telling about what some folk were talking about. I'm not convinced by his "explanation."
Click to expand...

While we've been arguing about whether Texas has the right to secede, and whether it's a cultural capital or a vast wasteland (who's supporting that position? Not me, though everyone's acting like I am), I don't think there's much disagreement in this thread that Gov. Perry is a huge, gaping, smelly asshole.
 
as long as the US gets to keep their (good) universities, (good looking) men, and all that good shit.

:)
 
Críostóir said:
Explain what you mean by the red portion? I don't disagree with any or the rest of this post, but I find it impossible to comprehend how anyone could believe that part. Serious question.
Click to expand...

Maria Callas.

"Mexican" food.

...just off the top of my head.
 
Críostóir said:
There's plenty of reason they couldn't leave. In fact there are four reasons:
  1. The US Army
  2. The US Navy (not relevant for landlocked states)
  3. The US Marines
  4. The US Air Force
If you don't think the United States as a whole would strongly suppress any move toward secession, you are seriously in dreamland.
Click to expand...

Just because they'd bring out the Armed Forces, it doesn't mean that it was necessarily legal. If the U.S. can start illegal wars in places such as Iraq, what's to stop them from starting it in, say, a newly-seceded Texas?

The U.S. Federal Government wouldn't recognize the RULE OF LAW if a state decided to secede. It's been my understanding that secession is indeed allowed, at least after my layman reading of the Contsitution. On the other hand, the U.S. has rarely had a government which would allow secession, even if stopping it was unconstitutional. We all know that, in recent years, the Feds have had no qualms whatsoever about completely ignoring Constitutional law, so their military intervention to stop secession dead in its tracks would only be more of the same old, same old.
 
frankfrank said:
Just because they'd bring out the Armed Forces, it doesn't mean that it was necessarily legal. If the U.S. can start illegal wars in places such as Iraq, what's to stop them from starting it in, say, a newly-seceded Texas?

The U.S. Federal Government wouldn't recognize the RULE OF LAW if a state decided to secede. It's been my understanding that secession is indeed allowed, at least after my layman reading of the Contsitution. On the other hand, the U.S. has rarely had a government which would allow secession, even if stopping it was unconstitutional. We all know that, in recent years, the Feds have had no qualms whatsoever about completely ignoring Constitutional law, so their military intervention to stop secession dead in its tracks would only be more of the same old, same old.
Click to expand...

I argue about the legal rights elsewhere. The part you quote is about the practical consequences of any move toward secession, to which as you point out the legal rights are largely irrelevant.

In other words, I think we're in violent agreement on these points.
 
Here is a good argument for Texas actually leaving the U.S.

1. They would take all of the Bushes with them.

2. These two guys would move to Texas:
The political problems facing America are endemic. Until the Blacks, Mexicans, Muslims, Hispanics, Asians, homosexuals and other sorted undesirables are banned, the country will continue to exist as a sewer state. No amount of protests or tea party nonsense will change those facts. Tea parties are not the solution for what ails civilization. A Hitler-style cleansing movement is.
Posted by: John at April 15, 2009 05:27 PM

and

I am moving to the the Nation of Texas if they secede. Saint Obama and the Obam-unists are destroying the rest of the country.
Iowa used to be the Tall Corn State. Now we are the Gay Corn State.
It is the world turned upside down. Obama and the Demo-commies have ruined us all.
Posted by: Al - Iowa at April 15, 2009 05:33 PM

3. Texas would have to defend their own borders against drug trafficing. This would reduce the amount of money the United States Government would have to spend on drug interdiction.

Now, I realize that some members of JUB would have to immigrate to the United States if Texas did leave, but they would be replaced in Texas by a whole bunch of people who are Anti-Gay, like the two quotes above from the story . The flood of people moving to Texas from other States would reduce property values in the affected states and increase the property values in Texas.

Somehow, I really don't see it happening though, I think that the average Texan can see that the costs would outweigh the benefits. Although, knowing some of the people from Texas that I have met, they probably wouldn't have any problem raising their own military, the volunteers would be more then enough.
 
I’ve got mixed feelings about this notion.
First of all, the Civil War was fought to preserve the union, and that established a legal precedent that no state can secede. In light of that idea, it would be kind of fun to watch Texas secede, and then subsequently get beat into submission via “decapitation” of their fledgling government. (Blow up their government buildings to incapacitate their leadership) We could have the army on top of them ages before they could assemble an organized militia to defend themselves.

On the other hand, it would be a fantastic idea to let “The Republic of Texas” go free. The Republican party would lose power in both houses of Congress. The Republican party would be jerked violently towards the centre of the political spectrum come the 2010 elections. If they tried to maintain their hard-right stance, they’d never win the White House again. Texas has 34 electoral votes, and without them, the Republicans stand virtually no chance of winning the White House under their current policies. Also, it would be fun to watch the Texans try to stave off “illegal immigrants” – the United States can’t do it, so how do they expect to be able to do it by themselves? With the political and drug problems in Mexico, and Texas’s inability to secure its border, I think that within 50 years, we would have Spanish-speaking “La Republica de Tejas”! That would be an interesting end to the current anti-immigrant, “don’t mess with Texas” smart ass attitude they have, wouldn’t it?

I don’t think either will happen though. It’s just the far-right crying about not having a friend in the White House.
 
why would anybody want to lose a state in the us?

well...i guess if it did all the texan state quarters would become valuble...haha jk, you know i love you texas!
 
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