Should they shoot down the N.korean Missile

[Kulindahr]

That theory leads to us invading their country to remove their leaders because they might in the future become a threat to us, while we're at it we can bring them democracy and freedom. We'll be greeted like saviors.....

Wait, we've heard that before.

This is one of those situations where it would be nice to have the Mission: Impossible team real and available: send them in to "disappear" the supreme leader, and a couple of successors except one who might be susceptible to reason.
Repeat as necessary.

 

[TX-Beau]

What is backing down, and allowing them to proceed without impunity, going to accomplish?

Nothing at all except give them justification to make more.

Once again, the US as the cosmic Daddy. If we make this a pissing contest the only thing that we'll gain is escalation. I doubt that N. Korea's intent is to start a war. I think they are trying to get someone to shoot down their missile.

Your argument is a double edged sword that falls both ways. We move to intercept, it's war the North claims, and they continue with direct attack and proliferation. We do nothing, and we lose face to the North Koreans and their increasingly hostile acts. Read.

So we act in a manner that we know will absolutely lead to escalation? You don't have the right to unilaterally appoint yourself, or anyone else the global police, in fact, pursuing that dead end will gain support for N Korea not lessen it.

Any action to be taken in the UN council faces opposition from China, which is being uncooperative by not interfering with the much more considerable influence they have in Pyongyang than the rest, and Russia, which sides with China against Western influx in the region. Japan will have to decide since it's interest are more viable than the US's in that region. So if they decide to shoot it down, I hope the US will support them, which is more than a positive, and check the Chinese and Russian in their tug-of-war. No one wants a war, and the North is a sad excuse for Russia and China to claim that path.

Neither you nor I know what anyone else is going to do. If you want to play Miss Cleo that's your affair, but really, I kind of suspect that China isn't going to ignore the people next door. I also suspect that if the US and by default the west, didn't spend the last eight years as it has, we might have a good deal more global support to influence situations such as this.

What do we do? We find some competent diplomats who don't share your run and gun enthusiasm, who know the situation on the ground - which neither you nor I do, and send them to work with everyone else involved - and when and if N. Korea decides to actually commit to acts of war, we can have someone let you know, so you can sign up to go shoot some of them.

I don't know what the hell you're talking about with regards to China and Russia. Nor do I think that whatever that is you're saying is going to benefit by the US becoming involved in it.

 

[Glafna]

Three-stage Taepodong-2​

Unknown​

North Korea missile base could target U.S., analysts say​

Stated reason: satellite test​

US deploys warships as North Korea prepares to launch missile​

Now that kind of info would have been nice to have from the OP.

 

[crzyrazn]

Once again, the US as the cosmic Daddy. If we make this a pissing contest the only thing that we'll gain is escalation. I doubt that N. Korea's intent is to start a war. I think they are trying to get someone to shoot down their missile.



So we act in a manner that we know will absolutely lead to escalation? You don't have the right to unilaterally appoint yourself, or anyone else the global police, in fact, pursuing that dead end will gain support for N Korea not lessen it.



Neither you nor I know what anyone else is going to do. If you want to play Miss Cleo that's your affair, but really, I kind of suspect that China isn't going to ignore the people next door. I also suspect that if the US and by default the west, didn't spend the last eight years as it has, we might have a good deal more global support to influence situations such as this.

What do we do? We find some competent diplomats who don't share your run and gun enthusiasm, who know the situation on the ground - which neither you nor I do, and send them to work with everyone else involved - and when and if N. Korea decides to actually commit to acts of war, we can have someone let you know, so you can sign up to go shoot some of them.

I don't know what the hell you're talking about with regards to China and Russia. Nor do I think that whatever that is you're saying is going to benefit by the US becoming involved in it.

You just contradicted yourself, especially obvious after you yourself acknowledged North Koreas stance of declaration of war for such an action.

No, no one has the power to unilaterally declare themselves "global police." However, world nations have the right to keep dangerous weapons of mass destruction out the hands of hostile countries. North Korea's major allies are China and Russia (which is based upon Russia's strategic interests there), and maybe a few here and there. So there is no fear of a damning backlash.

I didn't say I knew the intentions of North Korea, I even voted "no" to action by force. However, I wouldn't blast whatever action that involved force that was to be taken if it occurred; the North has demanded it. The North has had a history of this kind of action far beyond the last eight years - not an argument. Diplomacy hasn't worked in the past - do you even know anything about North Korea? It's authoritarian government follows a foreign policy of isolationism, only limited diplomacy is seen. When North Korea commits an act of war lets hope its not with a nuclear warhead you don't seem to mind them fooling around with. China and Russia is a case in point about the relations in that region, and North Koreas getting ahead of every action we take to contain it. Really, I don't have time to go over all of this. And my views are hardly jumping the gun as I have proven. You haven't proved anything or explained or offered anything here.

 

[Glafna]

One of the problems is how large the North Korean army is, and how devoted. Look back at other wars where troops have done amazing things when they were truly devoted to the cause they are fighting for.

If someone shoots down the missile, it will most likely be considered an act of war, and how well N.Korea does will depend on whether or not their allies will actually go to war on their side, and who else would.

 

[TX-Beau]

You just contradicted yourself, especially obvious after you yourself acknowledged North Koreas stance of declaration of war for such an action.

How so?

No, no one has the power to unilaterally declare themselves "global police." However, world nations have the right to keep dangerous weapons of mass destruction out the hands of hostile countries.

Sorry, one nation or a group of nations doesn’t have the right to dictate to other nations what they do or don’t do. Acting in that fashion is called an ultimatum, do this or else, and down that path is war.

I didn't say I knew the intentions of North Korea, I even voted "no" to action by force. However, I wouldn't blast whatever action that involved force that was to be taken if it occurred; the North has demanded it. The North has had a history of this kind of action far beyond the last eight years - not an argument. Diplomacy hasn't worked in the past - do you even know anything about North Korea? It's authoritarian government follows a foreign policy of isolationism, only limited diplomacy is seen.

Like I said, when they start a war, you can go shoot them.

When North Korea commits an act of war lets hope its not with a nuclear warhead you don't seem to mind them fooling around with. China and Russia is a case in point about the relations in that region, and North Koreas getting ahead of every action we take to contain it.

Who is we?

Really, I don't have time to go over all of this. And my views are hardly jumping the gun as I have proven. You haven't proved anything or explained or offered anything here.

LOL. Then stop responding.

 

[Kulindahr]

Now that kind of info would have been nice to have from the OP.

He apologized for that in post #13.
How to do better next time has been explained to him, as well.
Even so, it's a good thread.

I didn't say I knew the intentions of North Korea, I even voted "no" to action by force. However, I wouldn't blast whatever action that involved force that was to be taken if it occurred; the North has demanded it. The North has had a history of this kind of action far beyond the last eight years - not an argument. Diplomacy hasn't worked in the past - do you even know anything about North Korea? It's authoritarian government follows a foreign policy of isolationism, only limited diplomacy is seen. When North Korea commits an act of war lets hope its not with a nuclear warhead you don't seem to mind them fooling around with. China and Russia is a case in point about the relations in that region, and North Koreas getting ahead of every action we take to contain it. Really, I don't have time to go over all of this. And my views are hardly jumping the gun as I have proven. You haven't proved anything or explained or offered anything here.

"Demanded" is a poor word choice; "the North is begging for it" would be better, especially given what you follow with. North Korea acts like a spoiled little brat that thinks it's better than the rest of the world and race, even though it's really something of a latrine trench: they tease, they test the limits, they make promises and ignore them, they engage the world only when it serves some propaganda purpose.

The thing is, they know they can get away with a lot of it, because like some of the little border principalities between France and the larger German kingdoms/states, they can play one power against another, counting on the desire of the big guys to avoid a war over the little pissant state.

 

[Kulindahr]

One of the problems is how large the North Korean army is, and how devoted. Look back at other wars where troops have done amazing things when they were truly devoted to the cause they are fighting for.

If someone shoots down the missile, it will most likely be considered an act of war, and how well N.Korea does will depend on whether or not their allies will actually go to war on their side, and who else would.

If Japan shoots it down, and North Korea decides to have a war, it could be a comedy. Much of N. Korea's navy can't even reach Japan; its diesel/electric submarines are so noisy they practically beg to be killed, and though they have a ton of landing craft, they have no way of getting them anywhere -- except south along the peninsula, where they'd just be target practice for the S. Koreans.

Japan's constitution restricts its military to defense of the homeland, so unless there are some innovative legal interpretation, they wouldn't do anything aggressive against N. Korea.

So we'd see two antagonists, one unable to reach the other, the other dedicated solely to defense, with the likely result being one of the most unfought wars in history.

 

[Kulindahr]

Well, at least they managed to not drop anything on anyone, and the pieces didn't have to be shot down.

I'm almost disappointed, in a way.

 

[MystikWizard]

If it comes anywhere near us, than yes it needs to be shot down. But as others have stated, it would really be up to Japan and South Korea if they feel threatened by it.

I say, wait and see how North Korea's neighbors react to it and let them deal with it first. If they let it go and it makes its way over our way, then yes we should shoot it down.

 

[Kulindahr]

^
Check the article (link two posts above): they already launched. No one shot at it, and it seems no pieces violated anyone's air space (neat trick, that).

At this point, as Obama noted, allies are conferring.