Should those who rely on govt. assistance be able to keep their lottery winnings?

[Alpha1851]

What I care about is that nobody gets to say where anyone spends their money.

Well, you felt you had the right to tell the Jackson estate holders, and the insurance company, that they should reimburse your state's costs for security at his funeral. If I remember correctly, you were outraged that your state, and thus your taxes, were going towards security for this event. So, there clearly are some instances when you're willing to step in. I can see your point. Your state was already in an economic crisis and additional police and firefighters wouldn't be needed except for the funeral. They chose to have the funeral in your state, they should pay for the costs b/c they were so enormous. Your tax dollars fund security for other events, and its considered a state responsibility, but its usually not as costly and Jackson's estate could easily foot the bill for those additional costs. Free security was a windfall for them.

Well, its comparable to the lottery situation. Many of our public assistance programs are running out of money, some are operating in the red. Lottery winnings are a windfall. They chose to buy at least one lottery ticket, even though they were relying on govt. assistance to survive. Should they keep the money, or pay back some of the money they've used?

Generally, big brother doesn't watch over our shoulders or slap our wrists over our spending choices. I'm not so sure that it's such a bad idea though in certain instances. Our govt. continues to hand out tax funded money, w/o many rules for how it can be spent and whether it should be refunded. We bailed out banks. Yet, in my opinion, we aren't regulating their spending enough. They continue to offer top dollar bonuses to their CEOs and they did so when they were failing as well. Isn't this reckless spending? Shouldn't they have used that money to pull themselves out of trouble so we wouldn't have too? We bailed out the auto industry. We added to the pot by offering Cash4Clunkers, yet we've failed to ensure that our economy will benefit at all. Many cars are still manufactured overseas, so we aren't reaping the entire benefits. Unless it's possible to pierce the corporate veil, we allow shareholders and partners to escape liability. These individuals can create or invest in corp. after corp. and if it fails, have the corp. file for bankruptcy after bankruptcy. They have little fear of losing their personal assets outside of what they've invested in the corp. A woman can pay for in vitro fertilization, but we're willing to use tax money to support her children. For years! As a matter of fact, many states don't limit the number of children they'll provide benefits for. Should they?

Is there a time when we should say, okay we'll help you, but only if we have some control over the money you have for a certain period of years. Long enough to know that you can handle things on your own and will not need any more of our assistance. Should windfalls come w/strings?

 

[Alpha1851]

But wait:

Alpha1851 quote:
I don't know how much the ticket cost. It was several scratch offs b/c he used his keys to scratch the silver stuff off and the tickets were divided (more than two, but not sure how many over), but he asked for one lottery ticket, so I'm assuming it all equaled up to one. I didn't pay attn to the cost or whether he won anything. I've never purchased a ticket, so I have no personal knowledge about the cost either. They could've been cheap. It's not just about this one person though.

No, I assumed he purchased one, as in one ticket not one dollar. He paid her then stood to the side, while I pd. We were next to each other b/c he used the counter to lay his tickets on. He had several (more than two but unsure as to how many more) cardbrd looking things that had silver scratch offs on them. He scratched them off w/ his keys. I assumed these were the equiv to one ticket b/c that's what he asked for.

Why are you so hung up on what the "one" identifies? It plays no role in the outcome.

 

[StlKj]

Damn, both of you women are making such good points and doing it with such force and conviction that I think for a moment I went a little bit hetero.

 

[Alpha1851]

This is a stupid question.

I love how people state that the question is stupid, yet they reply to the thread. My thread title was clear, so no one would waste their time reading through the discussions if they didn't find the topic worthwhile. If it's a dumb discussion, go on your merry way to something that interests you.

Aren't you in law school? The lottery is rife w/ lawsuits and constitutionality issues most of which are still up for debate. Doesn't that interest you at all? If, for no other reason, than to try your hand at the law and persuasion.

 

[justsimon]

Don't tell her, but I bought an $8 lip gloss at Sephora today with my disability money. (It is the only money I have).

I once bought Halloween candy with food stamps.

 

[StlKj]

Don't tell her, but I bought an $8 lip gloss at Sephora today with my disability money. (It is the only money I have).

If you used food stamps, you now have to eat that lip gloss.

 

[Alpha1851]

Banks were not regulated and thus the economy tanked.

Oh, they're regulated, just not enough in my opinion.

One thing, people that work in banks, the big guys walk away with a nice huge umbrella and their taxes are low (1/3). People that win the lottery pay about half of what they win (2/4).

People that win the lottery pay a large tax on those winnings, no doubt. However, if while they've been on public assistance, they've paid very little in taxes. If they've been on govt. assistance for 7 yrs, that's 7 yrs of paying very little in taxes. On the other hand, those top dollar CEOs pay much higher taxes b/c we have a progressive tax. Make no mistake, these people also have top dollar lawyers and accountants who know every loop hole there is. They know when it's beneficial to have an economic venture that loses money and which charity to donate to so they'll reap the most in write offs. They're still in that higher tax bracket, so you can hardly claim that their taxes are low. Additionally, corporations provide some benefit to the community. The value of this benefit is certainly debatable. They provide products, jobs, inventions, insurance, and other things w/ potentially benefit many people. Their corp. is also taxed.

Of course, you could also argue that many people benefit when impoverished people purchase lottery tickets. They make up the largest portion of sales and states use the money to fund health care, education, economic development, and other things. Although these individuals paid lower taxes while on public assistance, their lottery ticket purchases significantly benefit state revenue.

 

[StlKj]

One thing, people that work in banks, the big guys walk away with a nice huge umbrella and their taxes are low (1/3). People that win the lottery pay about half of what they win (1/2).

Not sure what it is in every state, but I know several that take about 30% of your lottery winnings as taxes, IF you take it spread out over the allotted time. If you take the lump sum, then you get about half the advertised amount, and THEN they take the 30% out.

 

[Alpha1851]

I thought part of the discussion was that there is a difference between buying just one lottery ticket, which costs 1 dollar (which you had stated twice by the quotes I posted) vs buying a bunch of scratch tickets that could amount to 20 dollars or more, usually.

Oh, I see. Yes, you are correct, I'm curious as to whether the opinions are swayed by the amount spent or the frequency of purchases or the amount of public assistance received or the time it was received (person on benefits at time of ticket purchase).

I do believe that specific pattern of lottery ticket purchases while on govt. aid correlates w/ frivolous spending in other areas of that person's life. $1 doesn't seem like a large portion, but it adds up if an individual buys them frequently. Additionally, take that spending and compare it to their wealth. $1 to some people is akin to $10 others. If I spent frequently spent $1 on lottery tickets right now, it wouldn't really impact my budget. I wouldn't need any help paying my bills or feeding myself. But, if I frequently spent $1 on lottery tickets a few yrs ago, I'd have to head to the soup kitchen for food.

Personally, I'm not that concerned w/ one single lottery ticket or one single dollar, I'm more concerned w/ lifetime spending habits. Are lottery tickets purchases a reflection of spending habits? I believe they can be in some instances.

 

[Alpha1851]

Yeah sure, let's make the lives of the disabled and downtrodden even more difficult by confiscating millions of dollars from them that they've probably spent thousands to win.

I love you, Alpha, but I really can't understand why you'd think this.

You can't understand how I can think what?

If these individuals hadn't spent thousands of dollars on the lottery, would they need govt assistance? Also, by allowing them to keep their winnings, aren't we encouraging more impoverished people to play the lottery? The lottery is often referred to as a tax on the poor. Isn't this adding to the atmosphere that keeps these people in that cycle?

Since your receive disability benefits, perhaps your opinion is biased. I have my own biases as well in this area. I voted against the lottery and would love to see it disappear. I also fall into a higher tax bracket.

 

[justsimon]

OK but did you buy it with the intention of handing it out to kids who were trick or treating?

Yes, but I ate some of the Smarties.

 

[DiamondSkin]

You can't believe I think what?

If these individuals hadn't spent thousands of dollars on the lottery, would they need govt assistance?

No, I think you just don't think it's 'fair' or 'right' that people on welfare should keep lottery winnings.

You don't think they 'deserve' it.

I don't think anyone 'deserves' to win the lottery. Neither does the lottery. It's not based on fairness or class.

It's based on pure luck. Randomness. Chaos.

You're saying that people on welfare shouldn't spend any money on lottery tickets that they receive from governmental assistance.

But I think you're REALLY saying that people who receive governmental assistance don't deserve to win the lottery.

 

[StlKj]

You can't understand how I can think what?

If these individuals hadn't spent thousands of dollars on the lottery, would they need govt assistance? Also, by allowing them to keep their winnings, aren't we encouraging more impoverished people to play the lottery? The lottery is often referred to as a tax on the poor. Isn't this adding to the atmosphere that keeps these people in that cycle?

I've also pointed out to my students who hope to win the lottery some day how many news stories there are out there about people who start out poor, win the lottery, and then blow it all and end up as poor or poorer than they were before winning.

If people have been conditioned to think of themselves as poor and KNOW they don't have anything, they often rid themselves of the burden of the money because it doesn't fit their reality of how life is.

 

[DiamondSkin]

I've also pointed out to my students who hope to win the lottery some day how many news stories there are out there about people who start out poor, win the lottery, and then blow it all and end up as poor or poorer than they were before winning.

If people have been conditioned to think of themselves as poor and KNOW they don't have anything, they often rid themselves of the burden of the money because it doesn't fit their reality of how life is.

I think it's just another way of telling people what they do and do not deserve.

If I hold a raffle for a brand new car.

And a teenager wins the brand new car. By your logic on 'education' I should deny the teenager the brand new car because it won't teach him how to properly manage money to save and finance for a car.

In other words, you're treating them like children. And you don't think they deserve to win.

And the implication that if they win the lottery, poor people are so damn stupid that they'll just be poor again by blowing it all is just insulting. Rich people blow money too and become bankrupt every day.

Again, the lottery is not about who deserves what. It's chance. It's chaos.

By denying a group of people for any reason, it creates a bias in the lottery and the lottery will not be a lottery. It'll be a drawing for certain people.

A pure lottery has no exclusion.

 

[memfuzz]

Well being on foodstamps and welfare my whole life and being homeless for some months i buy a lottery ticket almost everyday cus with the gov help and my low paying job im doing good and hope to win to do better, and most of the ppl saying their opinion dont know what thats like

 

[DiamondSkin]

Well being on foodstamps and welfare my whole life and being homeless for some months i buy a lottery ticket almost everyday cus with the gov help and my low paying job im doing good and hope to win to do better, and most of the ppl saying their opinion dont know what thats like

No, they don't know what it's like. And like the elitist, upperclassman they are, they feel the obligation to treat you like a child and 'teach' you how to manage your money.

And they have take away your lottery winnings too because it'll teach you to be a good boy. Like a mother denying her son ice cream....

 

[Alpha1851]

I've also pointed out to my students who hope to win the lottery some day how many news stories there are out there about people who start out poor, win the lottery, and then blow it all and end up as poor or poorer than they were before winning.

If people have been conditioned to think of themselves as poor and KNOW they don't have anything, they often rid themselves of the burden of the money because it doesn't fit their reality of how life is.

I don't think I've ever heard a positive lottery story at all. Probably b/c it wouldn't sale.

It's the same spin w/ lawsuits. You hear about run away juries and frivolous lawsuits b/c corp. lobby for it and news stations are no longer non-profit. The public must believe that med mal claims are over the top, b/c insurance companies don't want to pay to defend the doc or for her mistakes if she's found liable. The public must believe that a crazy woman sued McDonald's b/c she foolishly burned herself w/ their coffee, b/c corps. want to escape liability. Yet, you never hear about the limitations on lawsuits. Limitations that directly impact your rights. Lawyers are satan's spawns and judges are corrupt. We rarely hear about a case where the jury got it right, or the atty took on a hard case pro bono, or an elected judge went against popular opinion.

Killjoke, your students are very fortunate to have you in their corner! I can't imagine taking on that task. Thank goodness you're on it!

 

[StlKj]

I think it's just another way of telling people what they do and do not deserve.

If I hold a raffle for a brand new car.

And a teenager wins the brand new car. By your logic on 'education' I should deny the teenager the brand new car because it won't teach him how to properly manage money to save and finance for a car.

In other words, you're treating them like children. And you don't think they deserve to win.

Again, the lottery is not about who deserves what. It's chance. It's chaos.

By denying a group of people for any reason, it creates a bias in the lottery and the lottery will not be a lottery. It'll be a drawing for certain people.

A pure lottery has no exclusion.

Um, excuse me, I am doing no such thing. I don't believe anyone deserves the lottery--it's all chance. Sound familiar?

My point in what I said is that the system is set up to advertise the lottery to predominately poor people, then taxes them on their winnings, knowing full well that many of them will end up putting themselves right back into the poverty they came from.

I talk to students about what they should do if they ever win a lottery or get a big inheritance. I want them to be prepared to KEEP the money, or their previous reality might end up being their future one.

Be a tad more careful in how you read things, please. My posts in this thread are not even close to being about denying people something.

 

[DiamondSkin]

Um, excuse me, I am doing no such thing. I don't believe anyone deserves the lottery--it's all chance. Sound familiar?

My point in what I said is that the system is set up to advertise the lottery to predominately poor people, then taxes them on their winnings, knowing full well that many of them will end up putting themselves right back into the poverty they came from.

I talk to students about what they should do if they ever win a lottery or get a big inheritance. I want them to be prepared to KEEP the money, or their previous reality might end up being their future one.

Be a tad more careful in how you read things, please. My posts in this thread are not even close to being about denying people something.

I apologize. I only read that one particular post and made a judgement on it.

I do agree that lotteries are marketed towards those of lower income but I respectfully disagree with the notion that a poor person who wins the lottery will become poor again because they're too uneducated to properly manage their money.

People are poor for many reasons. Healthcare debt. A loss in the family. A disease. A hurricane. etc.

To group those of lower income as people who don't know the difference between a stock and a bond is being generalist.

If anything, I think many poor people will find the need to save their winnings as they are accustomed to a living of lack of discretionary income.

 

[Alpha1851]

But I think you're REALLY saying that people who receive governmental assistance don't deserve to win the lottery.

No one deserves to win the lottery. This isn't a job promotion that relies on skill or number of years in experience. It isn't a talent contest which relies on ones ability to sing, dance, or draw. It isn't earned. So, I suppose I am saying that impoverished people don't deserve to win the lottery, but I don't believe wealthy people or middle class people deserve to win it either.