Sicko

[frankfrank]

The problem with that is that it never gets to be voted on by the people. Congress is so deep into the drug and insurance companies' pockets that they'll pass ANY bill that supports their profits, not the well-being of the people.

And even if an individual Congress-person DID NOT get lavished on, in one way or another, by the health-"care" lobby, they probably have a large portfolio which includes health-care stocks, and they will generally vote in ways that will enhance the values of their portfolios.

The best way for the health-care industry to profit, is to deny care as much and as often as possible.

See Post #12 (MRMATTX2). I DO have health insurance, and it's nothing near as rosy as his analysis. I had a problem in 2003 which ran up nearly $27,000 in medical bills. After the insurance company taking MONTHS to pay what they decided to pay, with the hospital and everyone else on my ass, I was pretty well "beaten down" where I didn't feel I could fight the insurance company anymore, and they knew it. Of course this is part of their strategy, take FOREVER to pay, don't pay until the patient is considered on the verge of default, and the patient will have to settle for whatever the insurance decides to pay.

In my case they paid about ONE-HALF of my costs. I had to come up with the rest. Crummy insurance, considering I'm shelling out more than $6,000 a year in premiums.

 

[doctorsun]

In my case they paid about ONE-HALF of my costs. I had to come up with the rest. Crummy insurance, considering I'm shelling out more than $6,000 a year in premiums.

Exactly...we have to work our asses off just so we get the ABILITY to get ACCESS to insurance through our a work. We pay dearly for it and it's worthless. Everything is "pre-existing" or "does not fall under the coverage of your plan."

 

[gsdx]

The best way for the health-care industry to profit, is to deny care as much and as often as possible.

Exactly...we have to work our asses off just so we get the ABILITY to get ACCESS to insurance through our a work. We pay dearly for it and it's worthless. Everything is "pre-existing" or "does not fall under the coverage of your plan."

Why does the Christian Children's Fund work so hard to get Third-World children some health care when this is going on at home? I'm sorry, but it tears me apart inside to think of a child being in pain because Daddy and Mommy don't make enough money to take the pain away.

 

[doctorsun]

...because Daddy and Mommy don't make enough money to take the pain away.

...but they make too much to be able to be on welfare and get free health coverage from the government.

If you want any kind of decent health care in the US, you either need to be very rich or very poor. The middle class, which makes up the majority and is the backbone of the nation gets fucked right and left by the health industry.

 

[1gayguy]

And it's not just cost of care but quality too.
Last year when my former wife was in the end stages of her cancer, her visting nurse decided it was time for her to go to the hospital. The nurse was right. The Nurse made three phone calls 1 to my wife's doctor, 2 to th ambulance company for transport and 3 to my wife's hospital, where she ahd received a large amount of her care.
Her doctor also called the E.R. at the hospital to let them know that a patient of their's ( his and the hospitals) was being transported by ambulance for intermediate care.
The ambulance driver radioed the hospital to advise them of whothey were transporting and why.
My former wife wasn't seen by anyone for other than a triage nurse for more than for hours. She was in the er literally screaming and crying for her pain meds. It finally to my daughter going up to the charge nurse and swearing at her. Screaming at her to go some fucking meds for my mother, before anyone did anything.When I got there the next day,I was appointed health care advocate for her by our daughter and my wife's husband. We had a meeting with the staff social worker that went something like this. We can keep her here for three days as that is all that the insurance will allow. We told her of our plans to get her to this particular hospice and anything she could do to help would be greatly appreciated. She got back to us later in the day saying we may have to take her until a bed opens up at the hospice. I went into my nurse mode then telling her what had happened at the er the previous day. I also told that nurses take an oath after graduation promising to be an advocate for their patients. Where was the advocacy hte previous day. I also told her that part of the Hippocatic Oath that doctors swear by is "cause no one pain and suffering". Where were the doctors the previous day?
That meeting was over and we went back to my wife's room. A couple of hours later the social worker tracked us down to inform us that regardless of how long it took or what insurance would cover, that they would keep my wife until a hospice bed was available.
It took hours of meetings and phone calls to different department heads includin a couple of Vice Presidents to get that, which should have been offered from the start. Here was their patient coming in, they were informed by three different people, three different ways that this person was coming. They should have been ready, period.
Someone earlier said we have an instant mentality, that we want it right now, well you know what, when it comes to a human life, your damn right. For me it's not just family either, it's any person, from any walk of life. They, we all deserve the very best. Screw the cost, help the patient. Forutnately for my wife she didn't have to endure the health care neglect for much longer. After 3 days in the hospital, a bed opened in the hospice facility and after 5 days theere she passed with our daughter by her side.
This is human life, not corporate life.

 

[KennyD]

I was recently in the hospital for a heart attack . It was a mild one and I was kept for only two days ... Thank God, I had a Medicare HMO ! My hospital bill was close to $45,00 ..and I only had to pay $155.00 .....
ANYONE on Medicare should see if there is a Medicare HMO in your area . Most are ran by Humana and United Health Care . They are not the BEST solution to all the problems .. BUT I'm paying a lot less that if I had paid straight Medicare ....

Also; If you are a veteran ; you can get in many cases ..health care from the VA . I get my two types of Insulin from the VA for only $7.00 a vial as wellas my pills run $7.00 per script . My syringes and test strips are also FREE. I get FREE glasses once a year after an exam by an Opthomologist (sp) instead of some girl with little trainning at Wal mart . So; if anyone is a Veteran .. ya' might want to try going to a VA clinic or VA Hospital and signing up .

 

[gsdx]

My mother spent the last two months of her life in hospital. For the first month, she was in a double room and shared with several other patients during that time. She was bedridden and paralysed from the waist down.

In early December, she was moved into a single room when it was discovered that she was in much more serious condition that originally thought. Soon she was taking morphine and was eventually put on a morphine drip. She failed health-wise extremely quickly and died early in the morning of the day after Christmas.

OHIP paid the entire thing. Whatever she needed to keep her comfortable, she received. No questions asked. The hospital submitted the bills to OHIP and that was it.

Our health care system may not be the best in the world, but Mom's hospital stay cost us nothing and we didn't have to worry about how we were going to pay for it.

 

[frankfrank]

How often is it, when I talk about health care in other modernized countries, the person I'm talking to asks me a question like "But would you want to pay your taxes at the rates they pay in Canada or Germany?"

I get that reaction MORE OFTEN THAN NOT!

My answer to the comparative taxation question?

HELL YEAH I WOULD!!!! GLADLY!!!

The $6,000+ per year that I'm paying for insurance, as well as my clinic visits, routine blood tests and routine diagnostic tests (such as X-rays or colonoscopies), and prescriptions, *NONE* of which my insurance covers, add up to

**MORE**

than I would be paying in taxes in Germany, when I add those amounts to the taxes I pay!

Give me the higher taxes of some other country, and the FREE health care that comes along with it, any day. I'll be able to keep MORE of the money that I earn!

Or even give me the health care system in a country which doesn't guarantee coverage for everybody, but the care is priced reasonably and affordably - Colombia comes to mind as one such example. (I just don't know about the systems in many of these countries, otherwise.) I'm told that health care there is as good or better than normal U.S. healthcare, and I get the drift that something that costs $180,000 here might cost as little as $2,000 or $3,000 there.

 

[metta]

I thought that the documentary was excellent and entertaining. I would encourage every one living in the US to watch it.

California has a bill that they are trying to get approved for Universal Health Care. I will start a new thread to encourage people from California to support it.

 

[davy]

...
California has a bill that they are trying to get approved for Universal Health Care. I will start a new thread to encourage people from California to support it.

i'm going to hate myself for saying it, but:

all it's going to take to defeat that, or any other bill like it in this country, is to make a few commercials about how "illegal aliens" are going to jump across the border to take advantage of the new system.

 

[metta]

i'm going to hate myself for saying it, but:

all it's going to take to defeat that, or any other bill like it in this country, is to make a few commercials about how "illegal aliens" are going to jump across the border to take advantage of the new system.

I hope that people will be more rational than that and consider how they will ever have a chance to retire, and the potential for their quality of life to be destroyed with the possibility of having to pay astronomical health care costs. I would think that businesses would support this. Most businesses are really having trouble offering health care benefits because of the annual rate of increased costs.

I was just talking to one of my friends today about this. He gets horrible healther care coverage and the healther care company gets over $600 per month. Half is now paid by his employer, a small mom and pop business, in which he was recently told that the employer will not be able to offer help of the coverage next year because he can't afford the annual increase costs, even though, each year, they cut the coverage they have.

 

[Ninja108]

Yes, the health care system here in the U.S. sucks. Some E.R. visits cost more than a person makes in a year. Having siad that, the health care systems of Canada, England and others have to have a flaw in there somewhere. Nothing is free, there is ALWAYS a catch somewhere.

 

[doctorsun]

Yes, the health care system here in the U.S. sucks. Some E.R. visits cost more than a person makes in a year. Having siad that, the health care systems of Canada, England and others have to have a flaw in there somewhere. Nothing is free, there is ALWAYS a catch somewhere.

Ask a Canadian. They pay taxes for their health care which usually amount to less than the average American pays for insurance policies and uncovered medical care in a given year.

 

[gsdx]

Having siad that, the health care systems of Canada, England and others have to have a flaw in there somewhere. Nothing is free, there is ALWAYS a catch somewhere.

It is not 'free'. As I said earlier, we have provincial health insurance plans and we pay premiums into the system. We all apply for and receive Health Insurance identification cards. If we go to our doctors or to the hospital, virtually everything is covered. Throughout my entire lifetime, I can't ever recall paying so much as a penny even for an X-ray or stitches or anything else.

In other words, if I have a health emergency and have to call 911, I know I don't have to worry about not having enough money to pay for the ambulance ride or my hospital visit or my hospital bed. They're already paid for.

 

[PreTTy PeTe]

^actually you get billed for the ambulance

it's not covered by OHIP. sometimes the hospital pays it for you

 

[gsdx]

^actually you get billed for the ambulance

it's not covered by OHIP. sometimes the hospital pays it for you

Oh. Didn't know that. Never needed an ambulance.

 

[JR]

A few months back I was 99% sure that I had gallstones and needed my gallbladder yanked out. So I went to the ER for and ultrasound. I had read the classic indications, memorized them and repeated them over and over. Once they discovered that i had good insurance, they decided that my chest pain indicated heart failure. I restated that I had no chest pain over and over. Ultimately I was assigned a cardiologist who tried desperately to delay my ultrasound because he wanted in on the action. I told him point blank that if he did anything to delay the care I actually needed so that he could pay for his BMW that I was going to hunt him down and kill him if I survived. And even though I refused his treatment I was still pasted with nitro patches and tagged with a cardio monitor for days. Cost: $6800.

I did get my ultrasound, but after the results came in that there were large stones, they decided they needed to double check the results with an MRI. There are facilities all over Miami where you can get an MRI for under $400, but at this hospital, it cost $7200.

I was admitted to the hospital and the following morning the gorgeous, young admitting doctor read my results and told me that my tests came back positive but that things were already well healed and that I would be released the next day. A surgeon would lead a team meeting later to discuss the matter, but this doctor wanted to release me. 5 minutes later an older and respected surgeon came in and explained that my gallbladder was badly diseased and that there was a good possibility that I would die if I didn't have immediate surgery. Now what do you do with information that is so contradictory?

The next morning when Dr. Mc Hottie came in to release me, I was down in surgery. And sure enough things were pretty bad in there. After a few days i was released and I received my $48,000. bill.

Part of this bill was some rather unskilled nursing care. And through a VERY stupid mistake by a nurse that was vigorously defended by the chief of nursing, my innards were severely messed up and i had to be re-admitted for emergency surgery.

This time I was in REALLY BAD shape. I had 9 different doctors constantly checking on me. This time, I had 4 MRIs, 3 more surgeries, gallons of IV drugs, dozens of tests, and i was in for a much longer stay. Based on the previous bill, I was able to fugure out the I was going to get a $200,000 bill. But it was $26,000. My best guess is they didn't want to tempt fate with the insurance company when it came to correcting a mistake made in the hospital. But still, 2 months after the operations, I don't know whether I owe $1340 or $28,700. I have statements that say both and the billing is a mess. I know that my personal responsibility is for the $1340, but who knows if the insurance company is going to pay the rest. The whole thing is such a gang bang.

The entire "system" is diseased. There isn't a reason in this world that a 2-hour gallbladder surgery should cost more than $5000. How they can legally make a case for 10 times that amount really is SICKO!!!

 

[gsdx]

I have to be honest here. You can read all the reports you want and watch all the interviews and hear all the horror stories about things like this happening, but it's a kick in the face when you hear someone you know talking about it.

As much as Michael Moore might influence me were I to watch his movie, I don't think it would affect me half as much as some of the stories I've read right here.

 

[doctorsun]

I broke my leg in 2004. At the time, I had (really shitty) insurance and I went to the hospital and had it was casted and everything was fine. I had to visit an orthopedic specialist every week for the following three months. My insurance covered some of my bills, but I still received bills from the specialist to pay for what wasn't covered. However, I never received a bill from the hospital for my initial ER visit. Several months later, I was visiting my father at his house and he handed me this stack of bills from the hospital. For some reason, they had sent everything to his address despite the fact that I was over 18, signed into the ER with MY OWN name and all related information, and used MY OWN insurance. My father's name was nowhere on ANY of my paperwork, much less his address. So, not only did I have this stack of bills, but my account was in default and my credit was being affected because they had been sending me bills for months and I wasn't paying them. So...I called the hospital and I was livid. I bitched this woman out about how there's no way I can pay bills that I don't receive because of some clerical error on their part that made absolutely no sense. It turns out that they LOST my address and filed through their records trying to find a relative of mine to whom they could send my bills. What kind of bullshit is that? All of this for an ER bill that was less than $200.

 

[PreTTy PeTe]

i found a link to the entire movie

it's ok you can watch it michael moore dosen't mind. in fact he wants people to watch it online.......

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6547358554002021486