Sicko

[metta]

Interview with Dr. Terry Bennett - Durham NH

 

[drhladnjak]

Not for profit HMOs not only definitely can exist, but there are quite a few of them around. The largest and best known is Kaiser-Permanente.

For profit HMOs generally do have a legal obligation to make money in so far as publicly held companies have a duty to their shareholders to earn as much profit as legally possible. Technically, if the leadership of the corporation does something which is not in its best interest financially, the leadership can be sued by the shareholders. In practice, they have to do something pretty egregious for that to happen though.

 

[metta]

Not for profit HMOs not only definitely can exist, but there are quite a few of them around. The largest and best known is Kaiser-Permanente.

For profit HMOs generally do have a legal obligation to make money in so far as publicly held companies have a duty to their shareholders to earn as much profit as legally possible. Technically, if the leadership of the corporation does something which is not in its best interest financially, the leadership can be sued by the shareholders. In practice, they have to do something pretty egregious for that to happen though.

I did not realize that Kaiser was non-profit. That company is not acceptable either. I guess we just need to push for Universal care. If you have Kaiser and are taken to a hospital that is not Kaiser, you will not be taken care of until you get transfered to their hospital. In the mean time, the patient can just lay there in agony. They have just as much beauracracy as the private companies. Dkonfrost heard a pacient screaming in pain and no one would do anything because the insurance company, I think that it was Kaiser, would not cover that hospital.

 

[metta]

I saw the movie in Seattle last week,and found it both interesting and disturbing.

Luck O' the Irish , hit it right on the head on many points in his post , and MM drove it home in the movie...

I think it 's disgusting that anyone should go without decent healthcare in this country..We're the ONLY industrialized nation that doesn't have a national health plan for all it's citizens..

I think the movie also presents a pretty damn good case for the need for campaign finance reform..

As long as the insurance companies have the politicians in their pockets...bought and paid for, it's unlikely that they will ever get past lip service when it comes to addressing the health care crisis this country is now in..

I won't hijack the thread with my views on publicly funded elections , but I will say this ...Follow the money..

It can be traced back to almost all our societal ill's , from the energy crisis, the shameful state of healthcare,education,our military entanglements abroad..

As long as corporations are allowed to write the legislation , the interests of the average citizen will always take a back seat ,while lawmakers tend to the needs of those who finance their campaigns...

Feel free to hijack! It is all realated. I agree with every point that you made.




Breaking: Michael Moore will Live Chat on C&L Sunday 4-5PM ET
By: John Amato on Saturday, July 21st, 2007 at 7:14 PM - PDT digg_url = 'http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/07/21/breaking-michael-moore-will-live-chat-on-cl-sunday-4-5pm-et/'; digg_title = 'Breaking: Michael Moore will Live Chat on C&L Sunday 4-5PM ET'; digg_skin = "compact";

Michael Moore will be joining C&L for a Sunday afternoon chat about his new movie “Sicko” and whatever else comes up in the comment thread. The movie has opened in about 500 new cities across the country this weekend and is the # 5 grossing documentary of all time so far……
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/...l-moore-will-live-chat-on-cl-sunday-4-5pm-et/

 

[ComNavFdgPk]

Not for profit HMOs not only definitely can exist, but there are quite a few of them around. The largest and best known is Kaiser-Permanente.

For profit HMOs generally do have a legal obligation to make money in so far as publicly held companies have a duty to their shareholders to earn as much profit as legally possible. Technically, if the leadership of the corporation does something which is not in its best interest financially, the leadership can be sued by the shareholders. In practice, they have to do something pretty egregious for that to happen though.

Maybe I was thinking about insurance companies, not specifically health-insurance companies!

 

[metta]

Steelworker ignites Healthcare Debate - Must See!
Category: News and Politics


In response to a question about Edwards and the other candidates on healthcare Steve said they are "all talking the talk but not walking the walk." He doesn't like the answer of letting private corporations continue to take care of our healthcare and went on to say that one democratic candidate (referring to Obama) made the statement we have to invite health insurance companies to the table. As Steve points out they have already been at the table for the past 35 years and eating our lunch.

Hardball: Interview with Steve Skvara
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5SSyS5n6U4





Original footage followed by John Edward's response.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUzdDORJwu4





When Edwards and others say they are for Universal Healthcare but then don't support the solution (SINGLE PAYER) to remove the insurance industry it's nothing more than an empty campaign slogan. Steve wants action from them but knows it's up to US to make it happen.

 

[Matthew-]

As a Canadian, I will say that our system is really, really bad, yet Moore seems to say in the movie its all good...

 

[Matthew-]

You are right, mikami.

 

[PreTTy PeTe]

As a Canadian, I will say that our system is really, really bad, yet Moore seems to say in the movie its all good...

rather then make a blanket statement about the canadian health care

tell us why you think its "really really bad"
I'm curious

btw i think canadian health is fantastic it saved my life
and i didn't pay a dime for it

i think i cost them over a million dollars
but now i'm proud to pay my taxes i am
every canadian is worth the care we get

every canadian

 

[Matthew-]

Pretty Pete, I know a Canadian who was injured in the USA. He needed an operation. The USA were ready to operate him on the spot, but he ask to come back to Canada (province of Quebec) to be with his family. His wish was granted, but in Canada, he had to wait one week before he was able to be attended to. He spent all that time on a stretcher in the geriatric section. The worst part is that every day, they were saying they would operate him on that day, only to have the operation push back from day to day... Anyway, he and his family were not impressed. Maybe I got influenced from their comments, but it looked really bad the way they explained it...

 

[PreTTy PeTe]

^your friend is a fool

he should have been operated in the usa
it's not a third world country you know




don't blame the canadian health care for this idiots problems

 

[backpacker]

Of course the health system is no where near as bad as the movie makes it looks. The movie is a propaganda piece, so take it for what it's worth. The reality is that most people without health insurance can afford it, but choose not to buy it. Sure they complain they can't afford it, but drive new cars and keep Starbucks in business. I pay less than $5 per day for health insurance. About the cost of a cup of coffee at Starbucks. Given that most people who don't have health care are far younger then me, they would pay even less. For people in their 20's, it would probably be around $3 per day. This assumes that they take out insurance while they are healthy. If they wait until they have a major problem, the rates will be much higher and the major problem probably won't be covered at all.

With all that said, I think our health care system needs a major overhaul. We have great quality of care, but we do pay far too much for it. The shear administrative cost of insurance is ridiculous. I'm a big supporter of universal health care. I would like to see everyone have complete access to preventative health care (if you're sick, you can already get health care even if you can't afford it). The problem right now is that people who can actually afford health and don't buy insurance, can often lose everything they have if a major illness occurs. These people are gambling; some will be winners and some losers.

I have a friend who went without health insurance for a long time. He and his wife could afford it, but just thought it was too expensive. His wife finally decided that they had to have it and they obtained insurance. Not two months later he became ill and had to have surgery. Without the insurance, they would be in debt for years to come or be forces to sell their house.

 

[PreTTy PeTe]

health care is a right.
people should not die because they can''t afford heath care.

 

[backpacker]

^your friend is a fool

he should have been operated in the usa
it's not a third world country you know




don't blame the canadian health care for this idiots problems

Would the Canadian health care have covered the surgery in the US? Does it cover emergency situations when traveling outside Canada? This obviously wasn't an emergency if it could wait a week. My guess is that the cost may have had something to do with his decision to return to Canada as well. I do know that rich Canadians often come to the US for health care due to the high quality of care, so I doubt he was really worried about the quality of care.

My family is from Canada. The complaints my relatives relay about the Canadian system leaves a lot to be desired. The kind of stuff that would result in lawsuits in the US. I'm all for universal health care, but I sure don't want it to work like the Canadian system.

 

[PreTTy PeTe]

Would the Canadian health care have covered the surgery in the US? Does it cover emergency situations when traveling outside Canada? This obviously wasn't an emergency if it could wait a week. My guess is that the cost may have had something to do with his decision to return to Canada as well. I do know that rich Canadians often come to the US for health care due to the high quality of care, so I doubt he was really worried about the quality of care.

My family is from Canada. The complaints my relatives relay about the Canadian system leaves a lot to be desired. The kind of stuff that would result in lawsuits in the US. I'm all for universal health care, but I sure don't want it to work like the Canadian system.

you don't get it do you

i can walk into a doctors office and not pay a thing
and we have best doctors in north america

my doctor be fantastic
he is

whatever he does for me i don't pay a thing....

 

[ronboy]

you don't get it do you

i can walk into a doctors office and not pay a thing
and we have best doctors in north america

my doctor be fantastic
he is

whatever he does for me i don't pay a thing....

Sir Ron ponders to himself.....

hmmmmmm.....If I marry PeTe, and move to TO, I get free health care too. Cool!

PeTe...marry me!!! (hehehehe!)

you be a free spirit...Sir Ron can't tie you down...that's why he loves PreTTy PeTe a lot!!!!! (and I'll grudgingly continue to pay for my own health insurance)

 

[Spiff]

The health care "system" if it can be called that, works just fine for those who (a) have a job with benefits or (b) can afford it.

Even then it has enough problems. Having insurance doesn't guarantee anything. I've read enough stories about people with good jobs and insurance that still go bankrupt with medical expenses.

I've watched Sicko. Very well presented, although none of it was news to me. I definitely favor a national healthcare plan. Even though I am at odds with my brother who works for a large insurance company and he thinks he is an expert about everything.

I'm one of those who sees national healthcare as something that should be just another civil service such as fire and police protection. If people think this is socialism, then they would be surprised to know that the U.S. has been socialistic since the first firehouse was started.

 

[ryankeith]

Many excellent comments on this thread, but I think Riverrick nails an important point here.

Yes there is a price...he is right...despite how much health care costs in America...there is this idea that the more you pay the better care you get...we all know thats bullshit. Just because you pay more doesn't mean you get a better, more quality outcome.

In Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year USA

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/11856.php

 

[backpacker]

you don't get it do you

i can walk into a doctors office and not pay a thing
and we have best doctors in north america

my doctor be fantastic
he is

whatever he does for me i don't pay a thing....

I'm glad you are very happy with your doctor, but many Canadians are not. The experts also beg to differ with you on Canada having the best doctors. The best doctors are in the US where they can make a lot more money.

My grandmother had been in good health until she was 90. She developed a problem that they wouldn't do surgery on because she was 90 and the system decided 90 year olds shouldn't get that type of surgery. They said if she was 80, they would do the surgery. There were no issues with her health being a risk factor. The doctors flat out told us that if she lived in the US, she would get the surgery. The failure to treat that problem let to complications and shortened her life and her quality of life. The Canadian health care system is notorious for denying benefits to senior citizens. When that happens, the people who can afford it come to the US for treatment. There have been many investigative reports on it.

I'm all for the US putting a universal health care system in place, but it has to provide at least the level of care we get right now. The Canadian system exceeds that in some areas, but falls miserably short in many important areas. I want to know that if there is a surgery I need, I'll get it.

I'm sure I'm going to convince you of the pitfalls of the Canadian system and you're not going to convince me that it is a great system. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[metta]

Message to Barack Obama


Message to Hillary Clinton


Message to John Edwards
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