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Sicko

I think you should see the other side's point of view too;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf3MtjMBWx4

I've seen them both, and I know that even though I do live in a country with socialized healthcare I would rather have a private one.

I don't know what country you live in. Maybe the plan in your country is not very good. But the system in the US is horrible. People are losing their life savings, their homes, filing bankruptcy, they are not getting their care because health care workers that make the decisions are paid more to give you less care or even deny care.

That clip does not show another side. I'm sure that episode did more than show people that did not have any insurance.

However, I will say that I don't respect John Stosell as a reporter. I have not for sevearl years because of the dirty way he does reporting. He is such an asshole. He knows how to twist facts and not give the full details in order to push his own agenda. He does not know how to report fairly. All that he cares about his pushng up his ratings at any cost. Shame on him.

Even if people have insurance, the health care workers are paid extra to give you less care and to deny you care. It is just unethical to have health care in the hands of for profit companies. Profit should not be the main motivator of health care.




[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Response to John Stossel, 20/20 and ABC[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The 20/20 program of September 14th did not contribute to a solution for our broken health care system. It is a disservice to the use of our airwaves and to the lives of Americans to use half truths, quarter truths, and outright lies, which trivialize this serious problem. Government, patients and providers are working to build a health care system that will work, and the 20/20 program instead created more misinformation and confusion about the issues.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]An example of the program's use of unethical misinformation was its conclusion that Canadians are flocking to the U.S. to get timely, quality healthcare services. This is not true. According to statistically based reports published in leading American scientific research journals, waiting times for EQUIVALENT hospital procedures are approximately the same in Canada and the U.S. However, in Western European countries with single payer insurance systems such as Germany and Holland, these waiting times are much shorter! [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The program also created misinformation by treating Canadian and other single payer insurance systems in which the government does not provide the medical service the same as Britain's government health service system. These approaches are radically different, and should not be confused. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A different segment of the program created misinformation about the behavior of healthcare consumers. It trivialized the situation of people without insurance by suggesting they would behave like grocery shoppers who had "grocery insurance," buying large quantities of expensive meat, etc. What nonsense! Public health scientists know that many segments of the public avoid NECESSARY preventive care until they become acutely ill. Then their heart disease, cancers, and diabetes become very expensive for the system to treat. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In a number of segments, the program used a faculty member of the Harvard BUSINESS school to make the case for general price competition between all medical providers. It is a very large stretch to design a working healthcare system in which most doctor and hospital performance could be easily compared by the public with their fees in order for true price competition to take place. Healthcare providers are not like bars of soap, or automobiles for consumer comparison. Why didn't the producers go to Harvard Medical School and interview physicians such as Steffie Woolhandler or Don McCanne from Physicians for a National Health Plan? [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Other segments of ABC's 20/20 broadcast on 9/14 were equally biased against most reform solutions suggested by Republicans as well as Democrats in recent years. Rather than help viewers better understand this difficult set of issues, the program created a smoke screen for status quo. Instead, viewers should go to [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]www.pnhp.org[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] for a real solution and stay tuned to this page.[/FONT]


Dan Braunstein, Ph.D. Professor of Management, Emeritus, Director, HCA Carolyn Negrete and Sally Hampton, Health Care for All - California and OneCareU.S.
 
My experiences with health care in the United States:

(1) For the first time, I've scheduled a colonoscopy. It's next week, but I began the effort to schedule it back in JUNE! Whoever says there's no waiting time in the U.S. is "full of it."

(2) More than likely the health insurance, which I am paying about $6000 per year for, will not pay for this test. The ONLY way that the insurance will pay for this test, is IF the colonoscopy discloses something which requires hospitalization or surgery. In other words, if it doesn't disclose something LIKE cancer, etc., I'll have to cover the cost on my own, and I believe it's around $2000 or more.

(3) If anything results in a prescription drug, it is not covered unless it's administered in a hospital.

(4) In 2003, when I had surgery, the total was around $25,000 and I had to pay far more than $10,000 of it by myself DESPITE my expensive insurance.

(5) As far as I can tell, no clinic visits are covered, for any reason. Not EVER.

What a totally fucked-up system! I can't believe how many people still think that our system beats the pants off the rest of the world. I would feel safer and more secure with healthcare in Cuba, Costa Rica, Argentina, Colombia, just about any European country (even Macedonia and Belarus?), etc.
 
On Oprah: Should healthcare be a right or a luxury?

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Do you believe that the child of a gas station attendant and the child of an investment banker deserve the same healthcare? That was a question raised on our healthcare show with Michael Moore and we want to hear from you! Should healthcare be a right or a luxury in our country?

What was your reaction to our healthcare show and the questions posed? Did the show make you think about the issue of healthcare differently? What realizations (if any) did you have about healthcare in our country?

Do you believe everyone in the country should have equal access to healthcare? Does the thought of a total overhaul of the American health care system seem overwhelming, unrealistic, or exciting? Are you ready to make changes so that everyone can become insured in our country? What are you willing to sacrifice personally for healthcare to become a right for every citizen?

The Oprah Show wants to you hear from you! Please write only if you are willing to appear on national television.
[/FONT]


https://www.oprah.com/plugger/templates/BeOnTheShow.jhtml?action=respond&plugId=290100001


Health Care Crisis: http://www.oprah.com/world/health/slide/20070927/health_284_101.jhtml

Discussion on Oprah's Message Board: http://www.oprah.com/community/thread/3145


[/FONT]
 
The Wørd on Health Care
Stephen Colbert urges President Bush to veto the SCHIP bill, for the good of the children.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/09/28/the-wørd-on-health-care/


If we really care for our kids, we should deny them health insurance now to immunize them against expecting it as adults. If we don’t, when they grow up, who knows what other unrealistic things they’re going to expect? You know, if we fund Head Start now, later, they’ll expect education. If we fund school lunches now, later, they’ll expect food.


 
i just watched "Sicko"
a question to americans is the health system in the USA as much as a mess that this movie makes it out to be.
just asking

PreTTyPeTe, It is worse than even the movie has portrayed it.
Michael Moorre looks like a choirboy now that people have seen
the movie.
Shep+
 
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-insure9nov09,0,3065397,full.story?coll=la-home-center
Health insurer tied bonuses to dropping sick policyholders

By Lisa Girion
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

November 9, 2007

One of the state's largest health insurers set goals and paid bonuses based in part on how many individual policyholders were dropped and how much money was saved.

Woodland Hills-based Health Net Inc. avoided paying $35.5 million in medical expenses by rescinding about 1,600 policies between 2000 and 2006. During that period, it paid its senior analyst in charge of cancellations more than $20,000 in bonuses based in part on her meeting or exceeding annual targets for revoking policies, documents disclosed Thursday showed.

The revelation that the health plan had cancellation goals and bonuses comes amid a storm of controversy over the industry-wide but long-hidden practice of rescinding coverage after expensive medical treatments have been authorized.

These cancellations have been the recent focus of intense scrutiny by lawmakers, state regulators and consumer advocates. Although these "rescissions" are only a small portion of the companies' overall business, they typically leave sick patients with crushing medical bills and no way to obtain needed treatment.

Most of the state's major insurers have cancellation departments or individuals assigned to review coverage applications. They typically pull a policyholder's records after major medical claims are made to ensure that the client qualified for coverage at the outset.

The companies' internal procedures for reviewing and canceling coverage have not been publicly disclosed. Health Net's disclosures Thursday provided an unprecedented peek at a company's internal operations and marked the first time an insurer had revealed how it linked cancellations to employee performance goals and to its bottom line.

The bonuses were disclosed at an arbitration hearing in a lawsuit brought by Patsy Bates, a Gardena hairdresser whose coverage was rescinded by Health Net in the middle of chemotherapy treatments for breast cancer. She is seeking $6 million in compensation, plus damages.

Insurers maintain that cancellations are necessary to root out fraud and keep premiums affordable. Individual coverage is issued to only the healthiest applicants, who must disclose preexisting conditions.

Other suits have been settled out of court or through arbitration, out of public view. Until now, none had gone to a public trial.

Health Net had sought to keep the documents secret even after it was forced to produce them for the hearing, arguing that they contained proprietary information and could embarrass the company. But the arbitrator in the case, former Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Sam Cianchetti, granted a motion by lawyers for The Times, opening the hearing to reporters and making public all documents produced for it.

At a hearing on the motion, the judge said, "This clearly involves very significant public interest, and my view is the arbitration proceedings should not be confidential."

The documents show that in 2002, the company's goal for Barbara Fowler, Health Net's senior analyst in charge of rescission reviews, was 15 cancellations a month. She exceeded that, rescinding 275 policies that year -- a monthly average of 22.9.

More recently, her goals were expressed in financial terms. Her supervisor described 2003 as a "banner year" for Fowler because the company avoided about "$6 million in unnecessary health care expenses" through her rescission of 301 policies -- one more than her performance goal.

In 2005, her goal was to save Health Net at least $6.5 million. Through nearly 300 rescissions, Fowler ended up saving an estimated $7 million, prompting her supervisor to write: "Barbara's successful execution of her job responsibilities have been vital to the profitability" of individual and family policies.

State law forbids insurance companies from tying any compensation for claims reviewers to their claims decisions.

But Health Net's lawyer, William Helvestine, told the arbitrator in his opening argument Thursday that the law did not apply to the insurer in the case because Fowler was an underwriter -- not a claims reviewer.

Helvestine acknowledged that the company tied some of Fowler's compensation to policy cancellations, including Bates'. But he maintained that the bonuses were based on the overall performance of Fowler and the company. He also said that meeting the cancellation target was only a small factor.

The documents showed that Fowler's annual bonuses ranged from $1,654 to $6,310. But Helvestine said that no more than $276 in any year was connected to cancellations.

He said Fowler's supervisor, Mark Ludwig, set goals that were reasonable based on the prior year's experience.

"I think it is insulting to those individuals to make this the focal point of this case," Helvestine said.

Bates' lawyer, William Shernoff, said Health Net's behavior was "reprehensible."

He said the cancellation goals and financial rewards showed that the company canceled policies in bad faith and just to save money. After all, he told the arbitrator, canceling policies was Fowler's primary job.

"For management to set goals in advance to achieve a certain number of rescissions and target savings in the millions of dollars at the expense of seriously ill patients is cruel and reprehensible by any standards of law or decency," Shernoff said.

The company declined requests to make Fowler available to discuss the reviews.

Cianchetti, the arbitrator, earlier ruled the rescission invalid because Health Net had mishandled the way it sent Bates the policy when it issued coverage. At the end of the hearing, it will be up to Cianchetti to determine whether Health Net acted in bad faith and owes Bates any damages.

The disclosures surprised regulators. A spokesman said state Insurance Commissioner Steve Poizner was troubled by the allegations.

"Commissioner Poizner has made it clear he will not tolerate illegal rescissions," spokesman Byron Tucker said. "We are going to take a hard and close look at this case."

In recent months, the state's health and insurance regulators have teamed to develop rules aimed at curbing rescissions and to more closely monitor the industry's cancellation policies.

Other insurers that have rescission operations, including Blue Cross of California and Blue Shield of California, said they had no similar policies linking employee performance reviews to rescission levels. Blue Cross said it conducted audits to ensure that claims reviewers were not given any "carrots" for canceling coverage.

Bates, who filed the suit against Health Net, owns a hair salon in a Gardena mini-mall between a liquor store and a doughnut shop. She said she was left with nearly $200,000 in medical bills and stranded in the midst of chemotherapy when Health Net canceled her coverage in January 2004.

Bates, 51, said the first notice she had that something was awry with her coverage came while she was in the hospital preparing for lump-removal surgery.

She said an administrator came to her room and told her the surgery, scheduled for early the next day, had been canceled because the hospital learned she had insurance problems. Health Net allowed the surgery to go forward only after Bates' daughter authorized the insurance company to charge three months of premiums in advance to her debit card, Bates alleged. Her coverage was canceled after she began post-surgical chemotherapy threatments.

"I've got cancer, and I could die," she said in a recent interview. Health Net "walked away from the agreement. They don't care."

Health Net contended that Bates failed to disclose a heart problem and shaved about 35 pounds off her weight on her application. Had it known her true weight or that she had been screened for a heart condition related to her use of the diet drug combination known as fen-phen, it would not have covered her in the first place, the company said.

"The case was rescinded based on inaccurate information on the individual's application," Health Net spokesman Brad Kieffer said.

Bates said she already had insurance when a broker came by her shop in the summer of 2003, and said she now regretted letting him in the door. She agreed to apply to Health Net when the broker told her he could save her money, Bates said.

She added that she never intended to mislead the company. Bates said the broker filled out the application, asking questions about her medical history as she styled a client's hair in her busy shop and he talked to another client waiting for an appointment at the counter. She maintained that she answered his questions as best she could and did not know whether he asked every question on the application.

Bates' chemotherapy was delayed for four months until it was funded through a program for charity cases. Three years later, she can't afford the tests she needs to determine whether the cancer is gone.

So she is left to worry. She is also left with a catheter embedded in her chest where the chemotherapy drugs were injected into her bloodstream. Bates said she found a physician willing to remove it without charge, but he won't do it without a clear prognosis. That remains uncertain.

Shernoff, Bates' lawyer, claimed that the performance goals for Fowler showed that Health Net was bent on finding any excuse to cancel the coverage of people like Bates to save money.

"I haven't seen this kind of thing for years," Shernoff said. "It doesn't get much worse."

lisa.girion@latimes.com
 
^ This shit pisses me off all to hell.

Dropping people because they're sick should be totally illegal, with hard prison time for all the people involved.

In my mind, this is tantamount to premeditated MURDER (or conspiracy to commit murder or grievous bodily harm, if the person survives).
 
We just saw Sicko on DVD.

Unbelievable.*

Un-fuckin'-believable.

The things people will do for money. Not even a lot of money, as metta's posting shows (the woman who got a few hundred extra $$ a year for cancelling millions of dollars of policies).

Where is the humanity in this? Why aren't people complaining?

*--Obviously, not "unbelievable" as in "I don't believe Michael Moore" but rather "unbelievable" as in "I can't believe what insurers and hospitals are getting away with."
 
You guys ACTUALLY watched Sicko?? EEEKK..Micheal Moore is too crazy for me. His documentaries are so "out to lunch...." to use the polite term.
 
You guys ACTUALLY watched Sicko?? EEEKK..Micheal Moore is too crazy for me. His documentaries are so "out to lunch...." to use the polite term.

In what way?

He actually donated (anonymously, initially) the money for his worst critic to pay for his critic's wife's medical bills so the critic could continue criticizing him.

That's a man who believes in what he says. He's not pandering to anybody.

(I'm not saying that everything he says is 100% true or that there may not be another side to some of his statements, but he's certainly not "out to lunch".)
 
The problem is that there are not enough Michael Moores out in this world .
Most of the world goes around believeing that as long as they get out of bed and do whatever it is they do during the day ..or night ... that all is well with the world ...
It is time to get our heads out of the sand and realize that there is a hell of a lot wrong and wrongdoing going on in the world and it really takes balls like Mike Moores to point it out to the rest of us ....
 
I saw the film yesterday and I am very happy to live in Germany with an nearly perfect health care system! What there is going on in the USA reminds me on the Middle Ages where only the royals get medicine and the poor people have to trust in their immune system or make the operation on their own (like at the beginning of the movie)! That is so dingy of your government that they look how people die because they can't pay the bills of the hospital or why an health insurance company doesn't approve the operation! I hope that the situation in your country will be improved. (Sorry for my english, I know it's not perfect)
 
Then again helping the guy who says bad things about him is kind of a plot i think. I love Micheal Moore but I don't think he gave him that money just to "help" but it was still a great thing no matter what he wanted
 
So what do the numbers have to be to finally be considered to be inhumane and unacceptable?

Report: 1 in 5 can't afford health care
December 4, 2007
One in five American adults can't afford needed health care, including prescribed medication, eyeglasses and dental care, a report said yesterday.
More than 40 million people older than 18 didn't get needed services because of the cost in 2005, the year studied in a report released by the national Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. About the same number of people younger than 65 said they were uninsured for at least part of the 12 months before being interviewed.
About 19 million Americans didn't fill needed prescriptions because of the cost, 15 million didn't get glasses and 25 million didn't get dental care. Adults between 18 and 24 years old had the least access to health care services, with about 30 percent uninsured and 30 percent lacking a regular source of health care, the CDC said. The percentage of Americans who couldn't afford health care and drugs has increased from 1997.
Bloomberg News
 
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