"Slay the idolaters wherever you find them...."

[Kulindahr]

"Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush" (Sura 9.5)

Every non-Muslim should know this verse. It is a pinnacle of Muslim teaching, for the simple reason that it came late.

Muslim theology plays a neat trick: Muhammed contradicted himself numerous times, but only the last statement counts. Since he's dead, we're stuck with the things he said last, which abrogate anything said earlier that is contrary. The trick lies in finding out what was said when.

But on one topic there's no doubt: when it comes to peace with unbelievers, this verse, the "verse of the sword", and a few like it, are the last word. What does that mean? It means that every single verse about being peaceful and cooperating and making treaties, in the whole Q'uran, isn't relevant. The verse of the Sword comes last, so none of the over one hundred verses people point to to say that Islam is a peaceful religion counts -- they're dead, only of historical interest.

So the final word on non-Muslims is simple: slay them. Ambush them.

Many Muslims will talk about the verses mandating peace. What they're doing is what Mohammed ordered: lie.


Here's a link to a video more than worth watching. Give it a look.


Then there's some questions that should be asked. One is simple:

Was 9/11 an aberration?

 

[rareboy]

Uh....Ok.........

I wonder if we might hear from an islamic scholar on this subject.

I have a feeling that the above is a rather narrow interpretation of the doctine....rather like asking a southern baptist to define and interpret what the Old Testament means in the life of a Christian.

 

[kallipolis]

It is very easy, and even convenient to believe that 9/11 represents the values espoused in The Qua'ran when believing that the terrorists were following The Prophet's advice to kill innocent civilians.

The definitive interpretation of any set of perceived holy writings remains a complex human challenge, open to extremist understandings as 9/11 evidences with fatal consequences for the innocent in those countries that have been the target of wholesale slaughter by extremist, violent terror groups masquerading as liberators or, revolutionaries insisting that they represent truth, justice and the rights of man according to their dogmatic beliefs.

Those of us who live in faith in God must needs be speak out against all manifestations of extremism, ensuring that the central message of holy scriptures is firmly focused on the context, and wholeness upon which the text draws its inspiration.

I am very wary of giving any credence to the mindless theories of these bizarre anti-Muslim groups determined to create enemies out of the innocent arising from their place of birth.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

I am very wary of giving any credence to the mindless theories of these bizarre anti-Muslim groups determined to create enemies out of the innocent arising from their place of birth.

We are responsible for the things we believe in, and for their consequences.

 

[kallipolis]

We are responsible for the things we believe in, and for their consequences.

Beliefs are one thing. Our thoughts do not harm people.

We must always assume responsibility for our actions.

That the greatest number of victims of extremist Islamic violence are Muslims would indicate that Muslims are very well aware that there are consequences arising from violent acts.

Likewise collateral damage is convenient language to describe the killing of innocent civilians by Western military forces operating in Muslim countries, also reminds us that the victims of violence perpetrated in the name of one cause, or another are not confined to Western countries.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

Beliefs are one thing. Our thoughts do not harm people.

Everything starts in the mind and everything ends there.

 

[kallipolis]

Everything starts in the mind and everything ends there.

Thoughts never kill.

 

[Kulindahr]

The principle of interpretation at issue is not in dispute -- it's been the rule since Mohammed died.

The "verse of the Sword" is later than all the peace verses.

 

[Jack Springer]

Thoughts never kill.

Is this like guns don't kill, people do?

Thoughts indeed kill.

 

[kallipolis]

Is this like guns don't kill, people do?

Thoughts indeed kill.

Provide us with an example.

 

[Mariatenebre]

What Kulindahr says is right. Just like how Christians claim that the New Testament supercedes the old one. Muslims claim that the later verses of the Quran supercede the older ones. Muhammed was only peaceful in the early Meccan period because he did not yet have enough power to strike against the infidels. However in the later Medina period when he had millitary might he advocated for the slaughter and eradication of non believers. However Jews and Christians can live under oppressive Dhimmittude Pagans and non Abrahamics are to be either killed or converted.

 

[zoltanspawn]

I'm not an expert on Islamic theology, as some are.

However, I've had enough firsthand experience with the kindness and integrity of many Muslims to know I don't really care about such expertise.

 

[Just_Believe18]

Like Christians, Muslims can worship their religion respectfully without infringing upon the rights of others. I'm a Christian, so I don't believe Islam is real; however, I respect Muslims who choose to practice it. It's not a religion that is going to go away. People are going to keep believing in Mohammed, Allah, and pray to a giant rock wrapped in a big, black box.

That being said, I am very critical about how Islam is practiced in the world currently. Islam is going through a Dark Age, much like Christianity did in Medieval Europe when the Catholic church took over. When you have uneducated masses, ruled by priests or imams, you create a repressed society that hates progressivism, science, tolerance, and diversity.

So I find the things going on in the Middle-East as inexcusable. I will not sympathize Muslim extremism. Islam is not a religion of peace. Although many Muslims do practice it peacefully.

Which is why I have a lot of respect for Muslim Americans. They put up with racist, ignorant Republican Christians who want to demonize them as the enemy, when in fact, many Arab Americans who have come to this country actually fled the Middle-East because they hated the Islamic extremism there. They are actually the peaceful, progressive kind of Muslims, and they have the 1st Amendment right to build a mosque anywhere they damn please!

 

[Kulindahr]

So I find the things going on in the Middle-East as inexcusable. I will not sympathize Muslim extremism. Islam is not a religion of peace. Although many Muslims do practice it peacefully.

Which is why I have a lot of respect for Muslim Americans. They put up with racist, ignorant Republican Christians who want to demonize them as the enemy, when in fact, many Arab Americans who have come to this country actually fled the Middle-East because they hated the Islamic extremism there. They are actually the peaceful, progressive kind of Muslims, and they have the 1st Amendment right to build a mosque anywhere they damn please!

There's where my question about an aberration comes in: 9/11 was in the best tradition of the Prophet, who ambushed, stole, blackmailed, murdered, and more. It wasn't an aberration, in the theological sense -- it was exactly what Muhammed was.

And yet... are there enough Muslims in the world who do not agree with the murderous example, to shove 9/11 into the dust and let it and all who would support it shrivel and die?

I don't know. I've known some pretty awesome Muslims -- yet after pondering that video, I have to wonder... is it real? or is it the lie Muhammed authorized while they wait to overpower us?

 

[kallipolis]

And yet... are there enough Muslims in the world who do not agree with the murderous example, to shove 9/11 into the dust and let it and all who would support it shrivel and die?

Yes, and even more.

Muslims are the primary target for Islamic extremist terrorist violence.

Address your above question to the people of Afghanistan who suffer so much at the hands of The Taliban.

 

[Just_Believe18]

^ I agree. The greatest number of victims to Islamic extremism are Muslims themselves.

 

[zoltanspawn]

I'm a Christian

People are going to keep believing in Mohammed, Allah, and pray to a giant rock wrapped in a big, black box.

Caricatures of Christianity are just as easy to make, and contribute as little to understanding.

Islam is not a religion of peace.

The problem with universal statements like this is how vulnerable they are to exceptions. For instance, Christianity is a religion of peace.

 

[Just_Believe18]

^ Some of those comparisons were not fair, yes.

However, I would say that Islam is not a religion of peace. There are many scriptures that point to violence towards "infidels" are non-believers. Nevertheless, the religion can be practiced peacefully. I believe in the good of Muslim people, but I also recognize the extremism that exists within Islam today. There are imams out there who are very powerful and use direct scripture to justify violence towards other people.

 

[zoltanspawn]

However, I would say that Islam is not a religion of peace. There are many scriptures that point to violence towards "infidels" are non-believers. Nevertheless, the religion can be practiced peacefully. I believe in the good of Muslim people, but I also recognize the extremism that exists within Islam today. There are imams out there who are very powerful and use direct scripture to justify violence towards other people.

I could say that Christianity is not a religion of peace. There are many scriptures that encourage violence against all sorts of 'sinner'. Nevertheless, Christianity can be practiced peacefully. I believe in the good of some Christian people, but I also recognize that there are TONS of Christian extremists. There are prophets out there who are very powerful and use direct scripture to justify violence towards other people.

 

[Just_Believe18]

^ And your point is certainly valid and has been historically true. However, if you compare how modern Christianity is practiced today versus modern Islam, there is a big difference. Although Christianity still has its extremists that we are still fighting, the religion has come a looonngg way.