So heres the dillemna

[neruda]

forgive me if I am flippant
Ramadan has been thought of as a one month fast or a one month feast
Cant your iftars become a way of gaining fat?
Again I had no intentions of being flippant

 

[Andreus]

forgive me if I am flippant
Ramadan has been thought of as a one month fast or a one month feast
Cant your iftars become a way of gaining fat?
Again I had no intentions of being flippant

lol

thats just what i was discussing with someone in IM

the daily feasts of ramadan at sundown are a huge thing and are very community based... so i could probably be fed better than normally if i attend enough of those with my friends

and the three days at the end of it will be incredible

 

[runner]

Eat all night long.

 

[Andreus]

you are breaking my heart here. this is nuts. i'm sorry, but it is.

god has saved your ass on more than one occassion and you sit there and try to defy what he's done? what gives? i'm sorry, but i cannot and will not sit by and watch you do something like this. i don't want or need to be worried for you. i've already got enough on my plate being worried about jake.

you are alive. you are breathing. you have people who love you and yet you triffle with your life? ramadan can wait until next year!

i'm serious, i just don't know what to say to you right now.

well thats not my intention... and i guess ramadan cant really wait... but i understand your sentiment

sorry buddy for the upset

i just know that sometimes when i think too much... writing it all down and sharing the secretive thoughts i am having .... well it makes things clearer for me

thats what im trying to do here

you know how rarely i ask for input and how rarely i admit that i am at a loss for knowing what to do... so that means that i am not trusting my thoughts right now

anyway

i am VERY worried about jake and i was just wondering what he would advise me

i know as a muslim he would tell me to eat and not fast

 

[Ninja108]

Religious beliefs aside, nothign is more important than your health. I would talk to a religious leader but when it comes down to it, your health is the most important thing.

 

[khushibagh]

well

after rereading this thread and considering the fact that if i fast mitri will rat me out like a dog...

i am leaning towards this ....

i will try to sleep during the day... only consume water and medication when its light..... and eat alot during the dark hours

i am talking about this openly because i need to understand myself

i need input from people who know me

i am not

That sounds like the right way to go. I also thought that the iftars were fairly lavish affairs, so you should be able to keep up your caloric intake although binge eating at the end of day may also be rough on your body. Perhaps you could see how it goes and if your health starts to seriously deteriorate reconsider with a clearer conscience than if you hadn't tried at all.

I have no great love or sympathy for religion, but I am troubled by the idea that your doctors could compel you to be force fed if you are an outpatient. Other people may think your choices are foolish but you should still have the right to choose if the only person you are hurting is yourself. I can understand their feeding you if seek admission in the hospital because they can't effectively treat you unless they feed you but otherwise you seem far from being mentally incompetent.

Be well.

 

[Andreus]

Religious beliefs aside, nothign is more important than your health. I would talk to a religious leader but when it comes down to it, your health is the most important thing.

ijtihadists have no religious leaders

we are an Ummah of one

that is the entire point of our beliefs

this is something i must decide for myself

 

[star-warrior]

I'd take the doctor's advice, because if you're weakened internally by a lack of nutrition, it is likely you will be open to more infections. Don't forget that winter time is a time for influenza.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

My parents have said this to me ever since I was a child. Does the Quran not say you should honour your parents?

 

[Andreus]

my father would have me observe the fast, actually

 

[Rand]

I realize that life is secondary to you, when compared to your beliefs. I have a difficult time arguing that as I would define my life as my set of values.

I have tried to be responsible in selecting the values that I live by, that I put in control of my actions and therefore my life. The sacredness of life is one of those values that I suppose I've not yet decided upon. Just how sacred is life?

I am sure that I value mine probably more than I should. But do I value the life's of others and to what extent. Upon that hinges my position on abortion and capital punishment and war in general.

As most of what I know of your religion, I've learned from your threads, I'm not in position to advise you.

If my religion were to require some action from me, I would try to understand the value behind the actions; the purpose behind the motions. I might conclude that fasting is a way to inconvenience myself, to remind myself throughout the day of a little pain that I might have caused another. That with the twinges of hunger, that I might think more of my god and a higher purpose than my normal routine.

And, if I were recovering, as you are, from some near-death experience, I would think that my thoughts are already where god wanted them to be; that my pain is already reminding me of the troubles of the world and my part in them. That, of course, might be just vanity talking.

So, with no basis other than knowing you and appreciating you, I would say please take care of yourself; please eat and gain the weight that the doctors say you need. I do not think risking your life would be martyrdom even if fasting caused it. Sorry if that is harsh, but that is my selfishness speaking as I do not want to risk getting to know you better.

 

[neruda]

your obviously weighing in scientific advise on your state of health against your spiritual beliefs?

whats your own level of confidence in your physical system?

does that confidence outweigh your faith in prayer and spiritual teachings?

can for instance your mind control pain, and other physiological processes in your body?

i hope these questions help

 

[star-warrior]

The fast as I understand it is between the hours of sun-up and sun-down. Use those hours to rest, like reversing your internal body clock. Try instead to be active at night and eat well.

 

[RobbyIsTehCool]

Wisdom ceases to be wisdom when it becomes too proud to weep, too grave to laugh, and too selfish to seek other than itself. - Kahlil Gibran

I would add, too proud to survive.

 

[jngenet]

The Qu'ran and its interpreters make exceptions to fasting for believers whose health may be harmed by it

 

[Andreus]

Wisdom ceases to be wisdom when it becomes too proud to weep, too grave to laugh, and too selfish to seek other than itself. - Kahlil Gibran

I would add, too proud to survive.

survive?

no one is immortal

we all face the same end one way or another... the sooner we make peace with that the happier we are, i think

i do not fear death... I DO seek to find my destiny though... no matter what that is.... that does not nesesarily include life OR death

both are inescapably locked together

wisdom is knowing this and our place and the cycle of the human soul, which is the only part of us that is not doomed to die on earth

lets remember that submission is the nature of islam

 

[star-warrior]

Can you not set yourself the task to atone later for not fasting, say when you're fitter? Why don't you seek advice from your spiritual leaders?

 

[chatolandia]

Well, Dreu.

Knowing you from your posts and having an understanding in strict religious observance, for the sake of ones spirituality, not for following the crowd; all I can say is to try it.

Be very careful, extremely careful and weight yourself and keep check. If you are willing to try the daytime sleeping arrangement, try it. And see how it goes for a few days.

I think, you feel, you need to at least attempt it before giving up. So give yourself that, but please please please, be extra careful. And if something happens, then you stop, because it was not meant for you to follow it.


I know I might get some flack for this, but I think that is how you feel right now

 

[justsimon]

Can you not set yourself the task to atone later for not fasting, say when you're fitter?

I think it's the later that's the issue. Dreu, you'll have another chance.

 

[RobbyIsTehCool]

Making peace with death does not equate to welcoming it, you know this already so don't pretend otherwise. You are arrogant to assume you know anything about what Allah wants in the first place, but that is a discussion for another day.

Of course, that discussion will never come if you don't live to see it. No discussions will follow, because in paradise there is no need for further discussion. You will have all the wisdom of the world already, then. But you will not have earned it, because you will have taken the easy road.

Only a fool claims to know what wisdom is on this earth, but we know what wisdom does. It does not sacrifice itself on an altar that is without meaning, the altar of dogma, as this act would be.

"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel

Live humbly, accept your weakness, and eat. THAT is submission.

 

[Andreus]

Making peace with death does not equate to welcoming it, you know this already so don't pretend otherwise. You are arrogant to assume you know anything about what Allah wants in the first place, but that is a discussion for another day.

Of course, that discussion will never come if you don't live to see it. No discussions will follow, because in paradise there is no need for further discussion. You will have all the wisdom of the world already, then. But you will not have earned it, because you will have taken the easy road.

Only a fool claims to know what wisdom is on this earth, but we know what wisdom does. It does not sacrifice itself on an altar that is without meaning, as this act would be.

"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel

Live humbly, accept your weakness, and eat. THAT is submission.

this is not a conversation we will have here

thanks though