So now... Emergency Rooms...

[evanrick]

America is a diverse country. It cannot be compared to other homogenized countries who do not have to deal with the kind of racial inequality America faces.

I would say americas healthcare system is good and americans are far sicker than other socialized countries.

So to say we have a bad healthcare system isnt correct, we just have sicker people, not because of the healthcare system, but because of society and culture.

Corporate control of government is the main problem, with polluters and monopolistic industries running rampant, have managed to exploit American workers very effectively, often with costly side effects.

 

[nialltt]

Wow that is some bad healthcare. I volunteer at the Emerge Department at a Hospital and people snap at me cus im the one that puts people into rooms and shit. I have to prioritize the situation and then after prioritizing you put it by time. And ye....some people go to Emerge for stupid reasons...GOD! Cuts, fractures and stuff go thru the fastest in our emerge. Btw this is Canada

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

You have a lot to learn. Even with insurance "poor" people and many new immigrants still call 911 to go to the doctor, go to the emergency room instead of scheduling an appointment. This happens on a regular basis -- talk to a friend that works in HR.

Duh.

And why do you think that is?

Poor people have no insurance and their only option is to call 911 even for a small problem because that's their only way to get care. Some hospitals will only treat you if you arrive in an ambulance.

NOW... that won't be their only option because they'll have health insurance and a doctor.

Won't that be nice?

(oh, and I like that dig at immigrants. typical xenophobia.)

 

[Audio Tech]

I'm already curious if my last quote for $580 a month for BASIC EMERGENCY CARE ONLY will actually come down to something I can actually afford in these times. I hope so....

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

Bob just got shot, and is on a gurney.

"Hey, can you fill out this form?"

Don't laugh. That happens down here.

I was in a motorcycle accident, laying there on the gurney and the woman with the clip board came to me asking for my Visa number.

 

[dpnice]

I must say I find the French health system really good; no waiting list, quick service in Urgency units. But though it costs the patient little, just a proportion of the costs of treatment the whole system is completely and utterly out of control financially.

People forget that a free health service where you are insured through deductions from your salary is never actually free. Someone has to pay for it finally.

Think of everything your taxes pay for, prioritise them and then decide if total health care cover should be one thing that every citizen should be justified in demanding from their country.

 

[Adrock-JD]

Eventually, but initially they'll be filled with hyperventilating Rush Limbaugh listeners.

 

[Jack Springer]

Duh.

And why do you think that is?

Poor people have no insurance and their only option is to call 911 even for a small problem because that's their only way to get care. Some hospitals will only treat you if you arrive in an ambulance.

NOW... that won't be their only option because they'll have health insurance and a doctor.

Won't that be nice?

(oh, and I like that dig at immigrants. typical xenophobia.)

Jasun - I'm mostly talking about immigrants that have full insurance coverage. They continually call 911 to go to the doctor. They just don't understand the system -- the HR staff had to very carefully tell them not to do that in the future - but they continue to do it.

I have my doubts that people will actually change their lifestyles to visit the doctor on a regular basis. It may just be easier to pay the penalties and hit the ER anyway since the premiums will probably be so high -- we'll all just have to wait and see tho.

I've only gone to the ER for myself one time -- had something in my eye -- I finally gave up after 4 hours of waiting - it was a Sunday afternoon in an affluent town.

 

[MercuryJones]

People forget that a free health service where you are insured through deductions from your salary is never actually free. Someone has to pay for it finally.

People also forget that someone has to pay for the cost of inaccessible health care as well. We all pay for it now as we cover the costs of avoidable ER visits and hospitalization. We pay for it now in a variety of ways after the fact for people who have gone into bankruptcy because of medical bills.

The question is not whether you'll pay or not, but whether you want to pay more or less, and whether you want to actually get anything for your $ or would rather just clean up and line the wallets of insurances companies.

 

[Knucklehead]

Do conservative heads just explode each morning when they get pulled out of the ass?

Nf course not.That doesn't happen till the afternoon when Rush The Pigman Limbaugh instructs them on what they are supposed to be outraged at that particular day.Later on,Sean will re iterate what Rush said.Then in the evening,Glenn Beck adds even more lies to ''the message'' but he'll point out how it's all linked to a "socialist plot'' to overthrow the government of the United States. That will hold them over till the next day when Rush has something new for them to be angry about..

About healthcare.I use the ''socialist'' Veterans Administration for all my heathcare needs.I have to say,overall,they are great..For two cat scans,an ultrasound, a prescription for a thyroid condition, several blood tests,and a few x rays as well as a few consultations, my bill was $57.00.I know it's not as rewarding as paying half my income to some scumbag insurance company who decides what they will and wont cover.Just the same, I'm real happy with my V.A.coverage.

 

[rareboy]

Jasun - I'm mostly talking about immigrants that have full insurance coverage. They continually call 911 to go to the doctor. They just don't understand the system -- the HR staff had to very carefully tell them not to do that in the future - but they continue to do it.

I have my doubts that people will actually change their lifestyles to visit the doctor on a regular basis. It may just be easier to pay the penalties and hit the ER anyway since the premiums will probably be so high -- we'll all just have to wait and see tho.

I've only gone to the ER for myself one time -- had something in my eye -- I finally gave up after 4 hours of waiting - it was a Sunday afternoon in an affluent town.

What bullshit.

I have provided consulting services in the American Healthcare sytem. How many immigrants have full insurance? And where does the bullshit story about calling 911 come from. It has nothing at all to do with health coverage.

It has to do with primary care reform which is what your country also desperately needs in many states. With full coverage, connecting everyone with a primary care physician will be a big challenge, but is achievable.

Good primary care access means that Emergency room visits decline, acuity of illness declines and the overall cost of care declines.

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>Sorry. I just think it's hilarious that an industrialized country places more value on its dollar than that of its citizens.

That's just it. We're an industrialized country. We're a capitalist country first, and a democratic country second.

>>>It has to do with primary care reform which is what your country also desperately needs in many states. With full coverage, connecting everyone with a primary care physician will be a big challenge, but is achievable.

The main problem will be - where the hell will we get all the primary care physicians we need? We've already got a major PCP shortage here in America. As it is, many PCPs have stopped taking new patients, because they're already overloaded. And no new doctors coming out of med school want to become a PCP. They see the hours, the stress, and the pay - roughly half what you can make as a specialist - and say "Fuck that shit".

Lex

 

[dpnice]

............................my bill was $57.00...........................I'm real happy with my V.A.coverage.

I am not criticising, nor denying your rights to this coverage but you are certainly aware that your examinations and treatment cost considerably more than $57.

So who paid the difference? That is the problem with unversal health care; if the patient doesn't pay the full costs then where does the money to pay for it come from?

Whilst I fervently believe that all citizens have the right to health care I also believe that people should provide for themselves rather than count on their governments to hand feed them throughout their lives.

But I don't have a solution apart from accepting passively the financial burden unversal health care causes; with all the associated waste, inefficiency and abuse.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

I have provided consulting services in the American Healthcare sytem. How many immigrants have full insurance? And where does the bullshit story about calling 911 come from. It has nothing at all to do with health coverage.

Yeah, but it allows conservatives to derail the debate with xenophobic stories that are unrelated to the topic at hand.

"We don't need to protect people from being cut off by their insurance because.. um... immigrants all call 911!"

"Insurance companies should be able to cut you off when you're sick because... um... immigrants all call 911!!"

"Immigrants call 911 and you know who else called 911? HILTER!!"

 

[sabot3ur]

ahahahaha.. I remember waiting in the ER for almost two hours with my arm snapped in half shaped like a Z. good times, I'm so glad the girl eating cheetos in a tube top with some ailment I couldn't figure out went before me. cheetos. tube top. I could not make that up.

 

[NW007]

Not only will the lower class have affordable doctors and clinics to go to, and lessen the burden of hospitals for minor illnesses/injuries, but it will make preventative and early care possible, making emergencies among the lower class less frequent.

Where do you guys get these utopian ideas that all this is going to change overnight. These things are going to take as much as 10 years to be fully implemented plus your not even factoring in the pending doctor shortage issues. Fewer and fewer medical students will have the desire to go into family or general practice. Combine that with the fact that the rate or retirement will probably increase among existing doctors. Plus we are going to have millions morfe people covered with no increase in the professionals who provide that service to them.

 

[NW007]

Let's revisit this thread in 2020 when your ObamaCare programs are fully implemented and see if you are all having the same rants.

And also update me then as to how much your health insurance costs have gone down from what you are paying today, assuming you are paying for insurance now.

 

[DigitalFudge]

Went to a hospital this one time......


I was having a migraine and normally I am fine I just of course feel like my skull is dissolving and that my brain is being raped.

Problem was I couldn't stand up, this was new, I was driven to the hospital and I collapsed in the bathroom in the waiting room while I was vomiting up a storm.

This is of course 30 minutes after I was sitting losing my mind (Ironically) in the waiting room.


But, like a perfect scene in a Disney movie, as soon as I open that door

"Sir, we can take you back now"


To this day no one knew wtf was wrong with me.

Now that I got this health care..... Eh........ Probably the same shit.

 

[Sausy]

Where do you guys get these utopian ideas that all this is going to change overnight. These things are going to take as much as 10 years to be fully implemented plus your not even factoring in the pending doctor shortage issues. Fewer and fewer medical students will have the desire to go into family or general practice. Combine that with the fact that the rate or retirement will probably increase among existing doctors. Plus we are going to have millions morfe people covered with no increase in the professionals who provide that service to them.

It sounds great and I wish it could be true myself.Also with the reverse where Republicans place far too much faith on free markets when the record is mixed....privatization plans without real competition have often produced discouraging results in reforming public services.What we need in Washington from both parties is pragmatism and flexibility without trashing principle.Yet it seems both parties are going to end up in the next election more dug in and intransigent,certain of their rectitude more than ever.We need to think beyond traditional Democrat/Republican ping pong and actually get our leaders moving in a positive agenda for all Americans rather than playing for the bases and giving lip service to the center.The traditional two party system no longer works because there is no incentive for real institutional reform because of the winner take all system that rewards known,established political institutions that can raise funds to support their nominees.It gets even worse because both parties are being more ideologically concentrated in their base support.

 

[NW007]

Why are you asking a question of me about something I did not say?



The conservative gloom and doom horror predictions about Medicare didn't come true then, and it won't this time. Opposition to the health care bill is already dissipating. Eisenhower swept the previous Republican opposition to New Deal programs before him under the rug, because everyone saw how much good they did, so too did Republicans grow accustomed to Medicare, and during the Bush-era made the greatest expansion of the program in its 45-year history, in 2004. So really, this fear mongering is already proven to be a failed conservative tactic.

No I was not asking you a question. I was making a statment about the utopian thoughts you had expressed up to this point on how things were going to change. and no I was not spreading doom and gloom, I was merely asking you and others to be realistic as to the changes you can expect to see or will see. No one can say with any degree of certainty as to what this massive legislation will do or what the total costs to implement will be . You have to admit this is a very big gamble being undertaken without any detailed forethought being placed into it. The bill itself is merely a series of ideas without the details having even been thought of or written yet.