Video So one currency Euro was a bad idea ??

[lambdaboy]

It was not and is not a bad idea. What many do not know is The IMF bailed out the banks with 90% of the money and 10% went to the people of Greece it was wrong and the Greeks should think about putting the Government at the time behind bars for allowing it. Greece will re-join the EURO because if Europe does not make a decent deal they will fall like a house of cards!

 

[ChickenGuy]

kallipolis, how did you vote? Yes or No?

Is there very generally a rough trend where the Greek lower-class and working-class voted No, while the more middle-class and educated and professional classes voted Yes?

I don't know your situation personally, but how has the crisis affected your own financial circumstances?

 

[kallipolis]

I voted, YES....whereas, most of my gay acquaintances voted, NO...

The NO vote was swung by new voters...the very young, most of whom are unemployed, or are in university. The unemployment rate among the young (17/25 years) is 60 pct. with the national average unemployment rate 25 pct. It was a mistake for Greece to enter the Euro....however, I prefer that Greece remains in the Euro...continuing with the structural reforms necessary to make Greece more competitive...it is work in progress, for the reforms started back in 2010...

I'm gainfully employed but assist my partner's family to ensure that they are not rendered homeless.

 

[kallipolis]

Here's the latest from our local press:

http://www.ekathimerini.com/199098/...hance-to-stay-in-euro-as-cash-runs-out-update

I quote:

With Greek lenders down to their last few days of cash and the European Central Bank tightening the noose on their funding, Tsipras must persuade the bloc's other 18 leaders, many of whom are exasperated with five years of crisis, to open negotiations fast on a new loan to rescue Greece.

That our banks are exhausting cash helps the Greek negotiating team to compromise.... with some urgency.

 

[hotatlboi]

^ Well most of those banks have paid the money back.

https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-the-fed-gave-away-16-trillion-and-2-5-trillion-to-citigroup.t745/

The problem with Greece is that they have consistently refused to pay their debts. They just got a haircut in 2011 and they are still defaulting. Eventually people are going to stop loaning you money if they have no reasonable expectation you are going to honor the debt.

 

[Telstra]

^ Well most of those banks have paid the money back.

https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-the-fed-gave-away-16-trillion-and-2-5-trillion-to-citigroup.t745/

The problem with Greece is that they have consistently refused to pay their debts. They just got a haircut in 2011 and they are still defaulting. Eventually people are going to stop loaning you money if they have no reasonable expectation you are going to honor the debt.

If you don't have the money to pay, how can you pay ??

 

[T-Rexx]

^ Well most of those banks have paid the money back.

https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-the-fed-gave-away-16-trillion-and-2-5-trillion-to-citigroup.t745/

The problem with Greece is that they have consistently refused to pay their debts. They just got a haircut in 2011 and they are still defaulting. Eventually people are going to stop loaning you money if they have no reasonable expectation you are going to honor the debt.

Only once since 1932 has Greece defaulted on a loan repayment. And that was last Tuesday. And that, arguably, would not have happened if the EU had treated Greece as generously as it has the uncreditworthy banks of northern Europe.

 

[hotatlboi]

Only once since 1932 has Greece defaulted on a loan repayment. And that was last Tuesday. And that, arguably, would not have happened if the EU had treated Greece as generously as it has the uncreditworthy banks of northern Europe.

2011 was a technical default as well. CDS on Greek debt paid out.

 

[bankside]

The Euro is an excellent idea. Admitting Greece was not. Fortunately there is a window of opportunity to rectify that.

Greece is not a senior citizen bamboozled by a telemarketer into buying a home gym for only 12 easy payments. It is a recognised country at the UN. That means it has a responsibility, in every year, to evaluate how much it can borrow with the certainty that it will be paid back. The title to all the private property in Greece should all be encumbered with the full value of the national borrowing, and the debt thus secured. The Greeks really can only afford to be renters in their own country, and that is what should happen. There is no reason to let that country continue to rob Europe's other taxpayers.

 

[ChickenGuy]

^ And this is indeed the prevailing opinion especially in Germany and other northern European countries. Generally it is opposed by southern Mediterranean countries like Portugal and Spain and Italy.

The counter-narrative and opposing argument that runs, would, I guess, be:

Is there ever a moral or justifiable limit to the sheer extent of these cuts, and for inflicting suffering and poverty and destitution upon the populace of a country? Would you still hold to such strict financial codes and ethics if a humanitarian crisis erupted which reduced Greece to the status of a third-world country and had the death rate soaring?

I'm not advocating that argument as fact necessarily, I'm just saying this is the opposing view, where richer countries and societies have the power to decide just how far down this road you are willing to go.

 

[bankside]

^ And this is indeed the prevailing opinion especially in Germany and other northern European countries. Generally it is opposed by southern Mediterranean countries like Portugal and Spain and Italy.

The counter-narrative and opposing argument that runs, would, I guess, be:

Is there ever a moral or justifiable limit to the sheer extent of these cuts, and for inflicting suffering and poverty and destitution upon the populace of a country? Would you still hold to such strict financial codes and ethics if a humanitarian crisis erupted which reduced Greece to the status of a third-world country and had the death rate soaring?

I'm not advocating that argument as fact necessarily, I'm just saying this is the opposing view, where richer countries and societies have the power to decide just how far down this road you are willing to go.

I'm in favour of lots of things that will improve basic standards of living in countries where that is precarious, including outright tax transfers (as a last resort, and for essentials like medical care; I'd prefer other kinds of investment as a first-line.)

But I am not in favour of a country choosing to borrow a bunch of money, pretending to be wealthy, and then retroactively stealing the money when it can't repay it.

That isn't an honest way to equalise anything; it is corrupt 3rd world bullshit, and if the Greeks suffer for it, oh well.

The funny thing is, I don't even think Germany is quite that harsh, and it's their money.

What is truly pathetic is to watch Greece lie and bungle every part of its finances for 15 years, and prove again and again that it is not a grown-up with money, and then howl at the "humiliation" of having to account for themselves before the European institutions sopping up all their costs. Instead they've got some clown petty thief on his motorcycle with his marxist claptrap rhetoric only just replaced with another of the same ilk.

What Greece deserves is a finance minister appointed directly by the government of Germany. And that's not even a smart-arse remark. They do deserve it. They should be considered a "financial protectorate" of a country that does have its act together, operating under a mandate from the European Parliament or something, just as was done with military security of weak countries 75 years ago.

 

[Telstra]

^ How come you are not talking about lenders fault ?
Lenders should know at the very beginning whether they can pay back the money or not.

 

[Vitamin]

@bankside A "financial protectorate" is exactly what Greece, and the other bailed out Southern European countries currently are. You do realize that every single one of those bailouts came with austerity measures attached them right? They went right down to what specific programs should to be cut.

When the EU first adopted austerity few economists outside of Europe thought it was a good idea, and even fewer still do today. European leaders impose economic mandates on their poorer countries that the rest of the world doesn't believe in and then wonder why everybody is losing faith in the Euro. Nothern Europe needs to stop treating their southern neighbors like children if they actually want the EU to work.

 

[bankside]

Soutien Europe needs to stop acting like children! They have burnt their hands on the stove and now they're whining about the medicine. When the finance minister of Greece is literally chosen by the heads of the solvent countries, then we'll talk.

Telstra, The lenders are not to blame at all. If it is a serious country, worthy of independence, Greece is capable of working out how much it can afford to pay back before it borrows.

 

[Telstra]

umm lenders are at fault too because if you KNOW they can't pay back,
the best you can do is stop lending or lend and pray in the hope of you might get your money back (but not likely).

 

[bankside]

Soutien Europe

Did you mean Southern Europe?


Yes, yes I did. Thank you for asking.

 

[bankside]

umm lenders are at fault too because if you KNOW they can't pay back,
the best you can do is stop lending or lend and pray in the hope of you might get your money back (but not likely).

Lenders are not at fault because they don't KNOW what you claim.

It's like saying a gas station is at fault if they let someone fill up the tank and drive away when they KNOW the thief can't pay.

Of course they're not at fault because if they knew the thief couldn't pay, they would shut off the gas pump. The lenders would never lend to Greece if they KNEW Greece couldn't pay, because that's just dumb.

 

[Vitamin]

Soutien Europe needs to stop acting like children! They have burnt their hands on the stove and now they're whining about the medicine. When the finance minister of Greece is literally chosen by the heads of the solvent countries, then we'll talk.

Telstra, The lenders are not to blame at all. If it is a serious country, worthy of independence, Greece is capable of working out how much it can afford to pay back before it borrows.

So you're solution to failed economic imperialism...is more economic imperialism? Reminds me of the troop surge in Iraq.

 

[bankside]

HAHAHAHAHAH Economic imperialism hahaHAHAHAHAHhahahah. hah.

Wooo. That was a good one. Thank you for that.

 

[kallipolis]

The original lending banks...try German, and French were forced by Greek terrorists to deliver huge sums of money, into the hands of the Greek Government...at extortionate interest rates....knowing full well that should the Greek Government fail to repay the loans, the Euro Zone countries would bail out the banks....the banks strategy worked well, and the banks did not collapse...for the loans have been acquired by the European Central Bank...i.e. The Euro Zone taxpayer...

The Greek Government had been making its loan repayments, without interruption...until last week....when a loan repayment due to the IMF went into arrears...