Sometimes the enemy is inside the camp

[refujiunderground]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/02/28/gay-rights-trans-rights-south-dakota-bathroom-legislation-column/80710176/

 

[star-warrior]

From the article:

According to the bill, which the legislature passed and sent to Gov. Dennis Daugaard for action by Tuesday, “every restroom, locker room, and shower room located in a public elementary or secondary school that is designated for student use and is accessible by multiple students at the same time shall be designated for and used only by students of the same biological sex.”

If a child has not undergone sex assignment surgery, then they're physically of the appearance of their biological sex.

A biological male who appears as a physically male but identifies with being female should not be allowed into an all-female toilet or shower facility until after they have had sex assignment surgery. This is not a case of discrimination, but one where a member of the opposite sex is in a position of exposing their private anatomy to others, despite the fact they may identify with that opposite sex genderwise. Lewd exposure under the law, is an offence in many jurisdictions. So for a child, getting a record would destroy their chances in life.

It should be under the duty of care of the educational institution to provide individual facilities that trans males and females can use for their natural daily needs such as the toilet or ablutions. Just as diabled toilets are non-gender specific, facilities should be provided on a similar basis, without bias.

 

[jbrown329]

Joseph R. Murray II is a lawyer, conservative commentator, former campaign official for Pat Buchanan, and author of Odd Man Out. He is also gay.

Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

 

[luckynumbah7]

Disabled toilets usuallyaren't labeled 'separate but equal' and shoved off to the side. They're usually located at the end of a stalled bathroom, unless it's single use.

I'd say lewd would be people, particularly adults, being overly keen about what's in some 12 yr olds' pants in a show of faux concern from the masses. Dunno what you lot do in a men's room but most people go there to piss. I suggest paying attention to your own genitalia in a restroom or locker room and not go peeking around stalls, or the next time someone glances at yours they might be rude, do a double take and ask what's happened to it.

 

[Benvolio]

Disabled toilets usuallyaren't labeled 'separate but equal' and shoved off to the side. They're usually located at the end of a stalled bathroom, unless it's single use.

I'd say lewd would be people, particularly adults, being overly keen about what's in some 12 yr olds' pants in a show of faux concern from the masses. Dunno what you lot do in a men's room but most people go there to piss. I suggest paying attention to your own genitalia in a restroom or locker room and not go peeking around stalls, or the next time someone glances at yours they might be rude, do a double take and ask what's happened to it.

The biggest objectors are probably the girls who do not want boys hanging around in and using the girls room. The claim of one to be a transexual should not trump the desire of all the girls to privacy.

 

[pat grimshaw]

WE can keep this thread sensible if people indicate if they're talking about—

1. A Private cubicle to urinate in privately

2. An open room to undress and clean their genitals in front of other teenagers

3. A Private cubicle in which to defecate.

 

[luckynumbah7]

The biggest objectors are probably the girls who do not want boys hanging around in and using the girls room. The claim of one to be a transexual should not trump the desire of all the girls to privacy.

Lemie get this straight - even the sad sack who cried from the top of his lungs that he went in the women's room to prove a point and that he loathes us isn't claiming to be trans, and yet the argument otherwise is always deployed. This isn't anywhere near rocket science, and you think a 13yr old is gonna go claiming a rather, ah, stigmatized, shall we say, identity in the hopes of seeing a few ankles and just about nothing else? In return for the oodles of shit getting labeled as trans will get? There's more naked tits on basic cable than a women's locker room. I find it odder you think girls would be more pleasant (for a given value) to the other awkward students in a locker room than they would be to random imaginary trans student. They're not. They're really, really not. Once there's a permanent 'off' label, you're absolutely fucked. Not that I honestly think you care either way, but there tends to be a lot of "but what about the majority, my god, the inconvienence....." As if it's more awkward to be part of a group instead of the lone soul at the back.

 

[luckynumbah7]

WE can keep this thread sensible if people indicate if they're talking about—

1. A Private cubicle to urinate in privately

2. An open room to undress and clean their genitals in front of other teenagers

3. A Private cubicle in which to defecate.

For genitalia I'm assuming you mean a shower, because I've never seen anyone clean their junk in the women's or men's room. Curtains work well for showers.

here's one I think it would help some people to remember- nudity isn't inherently sexual and shouldn't be treated as if it always is. Unless you wanna eject the gay students from the restrooms as well, because I've heard straight people screech righteous indignation that there might be a gay person interested in their bits skulking around in there somewhere.

 

[zombiekiller]

Just get rid of the genderized bathrooms and be done with it. I don't mind going to the bathroom with women. Why should anyone care?

 

[luckynumbah7]

Just get rid of the genderized bathrooms and be done with it. I don't mind going to the bathroom with women. Why should anyone care?

I saw a really nice bathroom plan where the urinals were behind the last stall lengthwise, I think it was. After the apocalypse, perhaps.

 

[jbrown329]

It would've been a problem in the 70's. But now it's 2016 and things have changed (mostly for the better).

 

[peeonme]

Just get rid of the genderized bathrooms and be done with it. I don't mind going to the bathroom with women. Why should anyone care?

That's what entered my mind, then upon further thought scenarios emerged about such events as going into a public rest room and finding a 12 year old girl alone, I wouldn't be to comfortable with that. Nor would I want my daughter to share a bathroom with men.

As far as the shower scene in school goes, accommodations to provide privacy from being looked at and having to see should be made available.

 

[eastofeden]

Just get rid of the genderized bathrooms and be done with it. I don't mind going to the bathroom with women. Why should anyone care?

I completely agree...and problem solved..not to mention how much it would save building owners from yet another fucking regulation that will cost them billions of dollars....

It was like that in Japan in a lot of places. I didn't give it a second thought ...and quite frankly....I am a bit suspicious of the people who do.....

The purity thing has run it's course and should be put in a museum with the rest of the Victorian stuff.

I watch Naked and Afraid all the time and I forget the part where they are naked as soon as they take their clothes off....like who cares. I see two people...not two naked people....or even a man or a woman....just two people trying to find shit to eat and not get eaten or have killer ants crawl into their orifices.

 

[jbrown329]

That's what entered my mind, then upon further thought scenarios emerged about such events as going into a public rest room and finding a 12 year old girl alone, I wouldn't be to comfortable with that. Nor would I want my daughter to share a bathroom with men.

As far as the shower scene in school goes, accommodations to provide privacy from being looked at and having to see should be made available.

Then have 2 bathrooms. Make each age appropriate. 1 for kids and 1 for adults.

 

[peeonme]

Then have 2 bathrooms. Make each age appropriate. 1 for kids and 1 for adults.

Good thought, but would a 14 year old girl want to share a rest room with boys of her age? Would she feel comfortable changing her tampon with boys "knowing" what she was doing in that cubicle?

 

[pat grimshaw]

And there must be additional set of bathrooms and toilets for the Mobility-impaired!

 

[zombiekiller]

To further clarify, I was at this gay conference thing that my boyfriend dragged me to. All the bathrooms were gender neutral with signs that say everyone can use any bathroom because all bathrooms are gender neutral.

When it was time for me to pee, I went into the bathroom and used the urinal. Then came in a woman. You know what, nothing happened. She went to one of the stalls. I finished peeing, washed my hands, and left.

We as a society really ought to start moving away from victorian morales when it comes to the human body and how it works.

 

[zombiekiller]

Good thought, but would a 14 year old girl want to share a rest room with boys of her age? Would she feel comfortable changing her tampon with boys "knowing" what she was doing in that cubicle?

It's a big deal because adults make it a big deal. Just like how showing any skin at all in some parts of the world is a huge deal whereas a 14 girl can wear the absolute minimum amount of clothing on a hot summer day and not get gang raped.

 

[luckynumbah7]

Good thought, but would a 14 year old girl want to share a rest room with boys of her age? Would she feel comfortable changing her tampon with boys "knowing" what she was doing in that cubicle?

I'm going to be as nice as possible with this one - when on ones period, you don't care. In some form or another there's a lingering urge to gut you for simple, sexist slips of the tongue. So it's unlikely she's going to care about the crinkle of the wrapper for more than a microsecond or three.

 

[pat grimshaw]

... All the bathrooms were gender neutral with signs that say everyone can use any bathroom because all bathrooms are gender neutral...

I don't think you'd please this woman from San Bernardino in California with that arrangement.