Supernatural / Jensen Ackles / Jared Padelecki [merged]

[aijalon18]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

^Castiel should become Dean's serious love interest. That'd be kinda awesome but of course would never happen. But it was said that Misha Collins would be sticking around for a while.

I dont mind Anna though. One of the best Supernatural girls imo besides original Ruby.

 

[Apollo]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

^Castiel should become Dean's serious love interest. That'd be kinda awesome but of course would never happen. But it was said that Misha Collins would be sticking around for a while.

I dont mind Anna though. One of the best Supernatural girls imo besides original Ruby.

I wish they had kept the original Ruby actor, or found someone better than the girl from this last season.

And a Castiel Dean love interest would be hot. I heard that Misha was signed for next season so that's why I am assuming Cas would be coming back.

Haha, it would be awesome if they made a gay Angel.

 

[falconfan]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

LOL well of course Cas/Dean (Castiean?) would be amazing yet impossible. What I think would be great yet equally impossible is if they introduce Michael the arch-angel as an individual who expects to live in Dean's body and therefore include all sorts of homoerotic undertones about him wanting Dean's body

As far as Rubys go it's Katie Cassidy's fault. She wanted too much money.

 

[aijalon18]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

LOL well of course Cas/Dean (Castiean?) would be amazing yet impossible. What I think would be great yet equally impossible is if they introduce Michael the arch-angel as an individual who expects to live in Dean's body and therefore include all sorts of homoerotic undertones about him wanting Dean's body

As far as Rubys go it's Katie Cassidy's fault. She wanted too much money.

They def need to introduce an archangel in some way. But Dean and Cas wouldnt be as impossible I think. Their relationship already has homoerotic undertones. zi think there is quite a bit in the series overall. I'm sure the writers are quite aware of the show's gay following. Both Jensan and Jared have admitted hearing about all the WIncest fanfiction.

To be fair to Katie Cassidy she might not have been greedy, she might have just wanted to be paid fairly and they were trying to low ball her. She prolly just wanted to get paid what she is worth. Katie isnt exactly an unknown like most of actresses on Supernatural. She's been in the business for a while, done some moderately successful movies, big guest starring roles, and her dad is David Cassidy.

 

[Apollo]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

Had to google Michael the arch angel to know who you were talking about.

I think it is safe to say, he is one of the three angels to have seen God. I wonder if Zachariah has seen God also? Anyway, Michael is probably the plan maker in all this too.

It will be interesting to see if they introduce Michael in this final season, and if he will be taking over Dean's body.

Imagine that, Michael in Dean, Lucifer in Sam.

 

[Sausy]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

Don't forget the curious thing Zachariah said in response to Dean's insistence on knowing where God was in all this planned carnage bringing the Apolcalypse about.He amswered rather haughtily,"God?God has left the building!"What exactly does that mean?As much as the demons offer no rooting interest,certainly the angelic leadership doesn't offer much to admire.To paraphrase Alistair,they seem more like sanctimonious pricks than anything else.Only "good guy" thugs compared to how horrible the demons are.

 

[Apollo]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

I think Zachariah was hinting that God no longer runs heaven and the angels control shit.

Remember what Uriel was saying to Castiel when he was trying to convince him to help the demons. God always favored the humans over the angels. So I don't think God would have condoned his army secretly helping Lilith release Lucifer from his cage.

 

[falconfan]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

They def need to introduce an archangel in some way. But Dean and Cas wouldnt be as impossible I think. Their relationship already has homoerotic undertones. zi think there is quite a bit in the series overall. I'm sure the writers are quite aware of the show's gay following. Both Jensan and Jared have admitted hearing about all the WIncest fanfiction.

To be fair to Katie Cassidy she might not have been greedy, she might have just wanted to be paid fairly and they were trying to low ball her. She prolly just wanted to get paid what she is worth. Katie isnt exactly an unknown like most of actresses on Supernatural. She's been in the business for a while, done some moderately successful movies, big guest starring roles, and her dad is David Cassidy.

Well I'd say tha Dean/Cas would be possible with the characters and maybe even the writers but seeing as the CW A) Markets is to younger markets B) Has been trying to increase the shows male viewing demographic C) Part of Dean's defining characteristic is that he's a womanizer I doubt the network would ever allow such. And an awareness of Wincest is more likely an explanation for Bela than any real chance at a homosexual storyline. I mean the characters are heterosexual it would be unfair to them to alter that for no reason other than the viewers sexual pleasure.

Also Katie wasn't that grand of an actress. She did bad ass fine but in the moments of Malleus Malefactorum where she had to soften, she was jsut wooden and bad. I think she would've done quite poorly with season 4 Ruby. An actress switch was fine with me just should've been to different actress.

 

[falconfan]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

As to the question of where God was... in all honesty I think the writers (or network) didn't want to portray God in anything that could be considered an amoral fashion to prevent backfire from religious groups. I mean the CW loves firing up parents about sexual content but sullying the name of the Lord is a bit much for a highly commercial network that is almost completely dependent on teen/tween demographic.

 

[aijalon18]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

Well I'd say tha Dean/Cas would be possible with the characters and maybe even the writers but seeing as the CW A) Markets is to younger markets B) Has been trying to increase the shows male viewing demographic C) Part of Dean's defining characteristic is that he's a womanizer I doubt the network would ever allow such. And an awareness of Wincest is more likely an explanation for Bela than any real chance at a homosexual storyline. I mean the characters are heterosexual it would be unfair to them to alter that for no reason other than the viewers sexual pleasure.

Well maybe I have a different opinion that most people here, but I think it s a possible for a guy (Dean) to have and intimate connection with another particular guy (Castiel) and that doesnt mean he is necessarily gay. I dont think he would be what is defined as straight either. But he could still be a ladies' man.

I dont know what you meant by WIncest and Bela but I was making the point that acknowledgment of it and other things by the boys at several conventions and promotional events, was indication everyone involved with the show is aware of the large gay fanbase.

 

[Apollo]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

Well maybe I have a different opinion that most people here, but I think it s a possible for a guy (Dean) to have and intimate connection with another particular guy (Castiel) and that doesnt mean he is necessarily gay. I dont think he would be what is defined as straight either. But he could still be a ladies' man.

I dont know what you meant by WIncest and Bela but I was making the point that acknowledgment of it and other things by the boys at several conventions and promotional events, was indication everyone involved with the show is aware of the large gay fanbase.

Didn't they even mention it on the show? The episode when they introduce the prophet?

 

[falconfan]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

Well maybe I have a different opinion that most people here, but I think it s a possible for a guy (Dean) to have and intimate connection with another particular guy (Castiel) and that doesnt mean he is necessarily gay. I dont think he would be what is defined as straight either. But he could still be a ladies' man.

I dont know what you meant by WIncest and Bela but I was making the point that acknowledgment of it and other things by the boys at several conventions and promotional events, was indication everyone involved with the show is aware of the large gay fanbase.

Well it's important you understand I'm talking in TV terms here. I'm certainly not saying that people are rigidly defined by sexuality... but I'm saying on network TV they are. The type of character you're describe is the type that you might hope to find on HBO or something like that. A ladies man can definitely be bisexual, Capt Jack Harkness comes to mind. But Capt Jack was construct to be a bisexual character. Now we've seen the character of Dean under an extremely intense microscope over these past four years. We've seen his worst fears and grandest dreams first hand. Compound that with all the psychological warfare waged by demons it's hard to believe that if he had any inkling of fear, anxiety, or curiosity about homosexuality it would've surfaced in one form or another and it hasn't.

It's true that a character can be unaware of the breadth of his or her own desires. But then that character would go through a period of self discovery. To be honest and fair to a character the story would need to be an organically from his or her personality, experience, and relation to other characters. And for DEAN, raised by an ex-Marine, cowboy mentality, no self esteem, no female influences, hand picked by God, Dean it would have to be a VERY long and VERY complicated story arc. It's a story arc that the writer's don't have the time or space to tackle adequately imo at this time if they really do intend to end the show at season 5, as Kripke has said a number of times.

I say this because I haven't seen any real organic growth of the realationship that you're describing. I've seen Dean and Castiel develope a relationship in which they care deeply about each other. That need not be a sexual relationship. Perhaps Castiel, embracing emotions for the first time could easily be confused or unsure about the nature of his feelings towards Dean. In fact he could very well be gay. But Dean is quite the opposite. He's been surrounded by emotions of this and greater ferocity his entire life and it's all been platonic emotion. I think media has a habit of forcing all emotion into a romantic setting, thus the common misinterpretaion in fan fiction of the brother's familial love as sexual yearning. I think it's important to understand that all relationships need not be romantic to be deeply emotional. To sexualize a bond of friendship for our own erotic pleasure is unfair to those characters. Neither men have shown signs of homosexual interest in each other.

As for my comments about Bela the link I meant was as follows: An awareness of Wincest fans doesn't mean a condonation of it. Quite the opposite the network has insisted the writers include to young attractive female love interests as "regulars." It's clear that they were trying to A) attract more male viewers B) complicate the wincest interpretation by complicating the story with female love interests. They were trying to give shippers different pairs to cling to in hopes they'd move on from Sam/Dean.

 

[aijalon18]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

^ I agree somewhat. If you are talking TV terms like you say, it is quite common to oversimplify relationships. Men and women who are friends often end up sleeping together or falling in love inexplicably without staying true to some grand story arc all the time. I agree that it would make the network nervous. But I dont think it would be so outrageous and implausible for the character. However in all honesty, in a post-Adam Lambert world, I think the publicity would boost ratings tremendously.

And it seems like massive stereotyping in speaking about Dean as the " son of an ex-marine, cowboy, etc.", as if that precludes him from falling for a male angel. With all due respect it seems as if you're a little blinded by your personal image of Dean.

I'm not sure if you were a Buffy fan but Willow becoming a full-on lesbian kinda happened outta nowhere. All her life she was in love with Xander, then she met Tara and 4 episodes later they were girlfriends.

 

[falconfan]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

post-Adam Lambert world

Really? I mean... really!? "Post Adam-Lambert world" Do you really think that there was one successful gay contestant on American idol changes anything about what is and is not taboo or how people view homosexuality? You are aware that there have been successful homosexual entertainers before, including individuals who were out while enjoying their success.

And it seems like massive stereotyping in speaking about Dean as the " son of an ex-marine, cowboy, etc.", as if that precludes him from falling for a male angel. With all due respect it seems as if you're a little blinded by your personal image of Dean.

It's not "stereotyping." It's me citing events from the characters history and personality traits he has shown. You yourself, earlier in this thread, have accused him of being sexist. At which pointed out that Dean's extremely old fashioned view of women sprang from the fact he had no female influences in his life and his idolization of his mother. I'm not pulling this shit out of my ass here it's written into the character. It's made implicitly clear that one of the overwhelming influences in Dean's life is John. He lives his life to please his father and John appears to be quite old fashioned. Additionally Dean puts great time and effort into masking his feelings and maintaining a very specific tough guy image. He teases Sam for his deviation from that image. It can therefore be assumed that this is how he thinks men 'should' be and NO part of that image involves homosexuality. If he had issues with his sexuality we'd have heard them by now.

I'm not sure if you were a Buffy fan but Willow becoming a full-on lesbian kinda happened outta nowhere. All her life she was in love with Xander, then she met Tara and 4 episodes later they were girlfriends.

And Willow was an angsty teenager loner/loser who was still trying to understand herself and her place in the world not a thirty year old man who has spent those years becoming the modern version of Ethan Edwards. Characters are different and as a writer if you want people to connect tot ehm you need to respect them and not use them for cheap ploys that could be "cool" or induce basal thrills. Simply because there's an emotional connections between two male characters doesn't mean they'll have the biological urges to fuck. They don't neeed to. There's nothing dimiminutive about the love between friends.

 

[aijalon18]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

Really? I mean... really!? "Post Adam-Lambert world" Do you really think that there was one successful gay contestant on American idol changes anything about what is and is not taboo or how people view homosexuality? You are aware that there have been successful homosexual entertainers before, including individuals who were out while enjoying their success.

I dont think it would change everything overnight but I think the buzz would help the ratings of Supernatural. A lot of Adam Lambert's attention is based on the initial ambiguity of his sexuality. And after he came out it didnt hurt him. It seemed to only make people more interested.

It's not "stereotyping." It's me citing events from the characters history and personality traits he has shown. You yourself, earlier in this thread, have accused him of being sexist. At which pointed out that Dean's extremely old fashioned view of women sprang from the fact he had no female influences in his life and his idolization of his mother. I'm not pulling this shit out of my ass here it's written into the character. It's made implicitly clear that one of the overwhelming influences in Dean's life is John. He lives his life to please his father and John appears to be quite old fashioned. Additionally Dean puts great time and effort into masking his feelings and maintaining a very specific tough guy image. He teases Sam for his deviation from that image. It can therefore be assumed that this is how he thinks men 'should' be and NO part of that image involves homosexuality. If he had issues with his sexuality we'd have heard them by now.

No I didnt say anything about his female influence and old-fashioned views. That was def someone else. I just complained about him calling every girl he didnt like a bitch or skank. TBH the more you describe and point out things about his character the more he sounds like so many closeted guys IRL. Maintaining a tough guy image, constantly challenging Sam's manhood/heterosexuality, hiding his emotions, and desperation to please a disapproving faher are all typical of many repressed homosexuals. And I never went as far to say he is a full-on homo I just think an attraction to Cas wouldnt be that unusual. But it would "make sense" for Dean to be the gay brother out of him and Sam.

And Willow was an angsty teenager loner/loser who was still trying to understand herself and her place in the world not a thirty year old man who has spent those years becoming the modern version of Ethan Edwards. Characters are different and as a writer if you want people to connect tot ehm you need to respect them and not use them for cheap ploys that could be "cool" or induce basal thrills. Simply because there's an emotional connections between two male characters doesn't mean they'll have the biological urges to fuck. They don't neeed to. There's nothing dimiminutive about the love between friends.

If you are referring to the character from the Searchers, in my sophomore lit class we discussed the sexuality/ possible homosexuality of a lot the John Wayne's hypermasculine characters. I dont know why it needs to be a cheap ploy. Just because Dean and Anna had an emotional connection doesnt mean they needed to have sex either but they did. Maybe I didnt make it clear in the beginning but I dont think an attraction to a person defines your sexuality. I think Dean could be attracted to Castiel and not necessarily be gay. But someone who has fallen for someone else.

 

[falconfan]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

I dont think it would change everything overnight but I think the buzz would help the ratings of Supernatural. A lot of Adam Lambert's attention is based on the initial ambiguity of his sexuality. And after he came out it didnt hurt him. It seemed to only make people more interested.

Lambert succeeded because he was good. His success did not affect the ratings though it generated a lot of discussion in the blogosphere and stories in magazines. Well American Idol gets huge press coverage annually the only difference this year was the flavor of it. There's no reason to believe that abruptly making a character bisexual would lead to any increased ratings even in this bold "post Adam Lambert world."

No I didnt say anything about his female influence and old-fashioned views. That was def someone else. I just complained about him calling every girl he didnt like a bitch or skank. TBH the more you describe and point out things about his character the more he sounds like so many closeted guys IRL. Maintaining a tough guy image, constantly challenging Sam's manhood/heterosexuality, hiding his emotions, and desperation to please a disapproving faher are all typical of many repressed homosexuals. And I never went as far to say he is a full-on homo I just think an attraction to Cas wouldnt be that unusual. But it would "make sense" for Dean to be the gay brother out of him and Sam.

Ok well to problem with that idea is that WE'VE BEEN INSIDE HIS HEAD. We've seen his fears and insecurities. Demons have done their best to peck a way at all his anxieties and insecurities. Not every fake "macho" guy is a closeted straight man. For fuck sakes the writers have blatantly TOLD us why Dean puts on his front. His father never showed any signs of affection towards him. He never showed approval or acceptance he just gave Dean orders and treated him like a soldier. As a result Dean has developed a complex about pleasing him. It's all over the place! Go watch "Dream A Little Dream of Me" again. In four seasons the writers have created an extrememly complex and entirely logically constructed character adn there have been no issues about sexuality involved. If they were in there we'd have some foundation by now.

If you are referring to the character from the Searchers, in my sophomore lit class we discussed the sexuality/ possible homosexuality of a lot the John Wayne's hypermasculine characters. I dont know why it needs to be a cheap ploy. Just because Dean and Anna had an emotional connection doesnt mean they needed to have sex either but they did. Maybe I didnt make it clear in the beginning but I dont think an attraction to a person defines your sexuality. I think Dean could be attracted to Castiel and not necessarily be gay. But someone who has fallen for someone else.

No, Dean didn't need to sleep with Anna just because of their connection. In fact there was a similar emotional bond between he and Jo that never became sexual because of the circumstances underwhich they met. But the fact of the matter is his relationshiop with Anna DID become sexual because he's heterosexual and attracted to her. There's been no sparks between Dean and Castiel, no reason to believe either of them were eexually attracted to each other... nothing. So yeah it's a hot thought but nothing more than that.

 

[aijalon18]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

Everything you say still doesnt really dispute the core point I was trying to make is that Dean could be attracted to Castiel and not necessarily be gay. That there is something about Castiel the individual, not the male with a penis, that Dean could be attracted to.

Also, I think you are bit unable/unwilling to be objective about things concerning Dean as you are very invested in your own perception of Dean. You purport many things about Dean's psyche as fact when they are really just your interpretations of those things. It is quite possible that you are very wrong about what writers intended by certain things. Just as I could be wrong. SO often fans create complex reasoning behind fictional characters actions but the creators have something much simpler and often quite different in mind from what fans thought.

Different people read things differently. It is all a matter of opinion. When Dean got together with Anna it was not an instant lust attraction. It was connection he doesnt often have. IMO, which I am entitled to as much as you, there is a similar connection between Dean and Castiel. I believe they do have sparks. And tbh I thought Dean sleeping with Anna was bit out of place. But I guessed they needed a significant way for Dean to reclaim his libido.

 

[Apollo]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

Everything you say still doesnt really dispute the core point I was trying to make is that Dean could be attracted to Castiel and not necessarily be gay. That there is something about Castiel the individual, not the male with a penis, that Dean could be attracted to.

Also, I think you are bit unable/unwilling to be objective about things concerning Dean as you are very invested in your own perception of Dean. You purport many things about Dean's psyche as fact when they are really just your interpretations of those things. It is quite possible that you are very wrong about what writers intended by certain things. Just as I could be wrong. SO often fans create complex reasoning behind fictional characters actions but the creators have something much simpler and often quite different in mind from what fans thought.

Different people read things differently. It is all a matter of opinion. When Dean got together with Anna it was not an instant lust attraction. It was connection he doesnt often have. IMO, which I am entitled to as much as you, there is a similar connection between Dean and Castiel. I believe they do have sparks. And tbh I thought Dean sleeping with Anna was bit out of place. But I guessed they needed a significant way for Dean to reclaim his libido.

Well what are you talking about seeing between Dean and Cas in the next season? Like something him and Sam share, but there is no brotherly connection there to make it feel all weird?

 

[falconfan]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

Everything you say still doesnt really dispute the core point I was trying to make is that Dean could be attracted to Castiel and not necessarily be gay. That there is something about Castiel the individual, not the male with a penis, that Dean could be attracted to.

No he need not be gay but he would need to be at least bisexual to have a sexual relationship with another man. There's always going to be a physical component to a sexual relationship. That's what differentiates it from friendship. And there's no reason to believe that those sexual desires exist inside one Dean Winchester

Also, I think you are bit unable/unwilling to be objective about things concerning Dean as you are very invested in your own perception of Dean. You purport many things about Dean's psyche as fact when they are really just your interpretations of those things. It is quite possible that you are very wrong about what writers intended by certain things. Just as I could be wrong. SO often fans create complex reasoning behind fictional characters actions but the creators have something much simpler and often quite different in mind from what fans thought.

My "perception" of Dean is based on what I've seen. I have seen every episode of the series, some multiple times. Additionally one of my courses in Television Writing I spent and entire semester studying and writing this show. I have read numerous interviews with Kripke as well as writers, directors, and producers. I feel that I have a relatively good grasp of these characters. If in the course of our discussion I have appeared inflexible it is because you have said nothing about the character's history or interactions with others. I repeatedly cite events that support my interpratation and you simply talk about what "people" can do. We're not talking about "people" we're talking about Dean. If there are any episodes, scenes, lines of dialouge that I've missed which support your interpretation feel free to point them out to me. I'd be interested see where you pull this from and how it meshes with the image crafted by the interactions I see as integral windows into Dean's persona.

Different people read things differently. It is all a matter of opinion. When Dean got together with Anna it was not an instant lust attraction. It was connection he doesnt often have. IMO, which I am entitled to as much as you, there is a similar connection between Dean and Castiel. I believe they do have sparks. And tbh I thought Dean sleeping with Anna was bit out of place. But I guessed they needed a significant way for Dean to reclaim his libido.

Of course everythings open to interpretation, but Supernatural isn't exactly subtle with it's dialouge. Their antagonists frequently make use of psychological warfare eventually verbalizing the psychology which the portagnoists hae subtly been embodying. If you have a different interpretation by all means please explain where you see said sparks and what has lead you to believe there's sexual yearning between Dean and Cas.

As for Anna and Dean's romance: it was a matter of Dean finanly finding acceptance. Dean was coming from a dark place and just brimming with guilt. She knew what to say to him, and was the only one who did. They connected because they understood each other and out of it grew their bond. It's clearly of a greater depth then most of Dean's regular hook ups but even those bonds aren't purely lustful. In episodes like Monster Movie, The Kids Are All Right, and Windego you can see that he develops emotional connections to accompany these sexual interests.

 

[aijalon18]

Re: Supernatural's back, baby!

Well we're never gonna agree. It's like Democrat vs. Republican. You are gonna continue to find faults within my argument and I will continue to do the same with yours. I was
just saying what I think.